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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, I bought the new nid dex. They are pretty darn good. They, thus far, are absolutely dominant in the deep strike game/heavy infiltration game. between the trygon/mawloc, the holes for raveners, the spore drop pod things, the ymgarl stealers and the lictors, it doesn't seem like anything we have will really work except for mech eldar.

So, what are your thoughts, what would you bring to counter different types of new nids lists? hordes, deep strikers, etc etc.

I'm thinking 2 prisms is a must, 2 serpents with bladestorm avengers...what else will work? Wraithlords are out, a squad of toxin sac anything is just brutal. pathfinders and rangers are out, lictors and ymgarl stealers will just have a field day.

what to do fellow eldar seers?!

*note, i'm not quite freaking out yet, I know there is an answer, just like for everything =) *
 

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Fire Prisms!! You already said this one but man, deep-strike is not going to be worth it if every unit is all clumped after and we hit it with a blast template. The infiltration is annoying but it also separates the army into nicely Bladestormable (word?) chunks. As long as one part of the army is gone before the rest shows up were good.
It seems that the general push for more mobile armies is still going strong. Anything sitting in one place or moving less than 12" a turn will be toast. Warm buttery toast. Family Guy jokes aside, I'm going to hate painting 5 Waveserpents and 3 Prisms but what else are you gonna do.

PS:Waveserpent = not getting overrun by guants.
 

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I bought the tyranid codex also. I really like it so far (too bad I never really liked the models). I've always had trouble as our local bug player is one of our league's strongest opponents. I do look forward to playing him, though I am fearful of the infiltrators especially because I use support platforms a lot (D-Cannon mostly). Either way, should be fun for both of us!
I think I may start using my War Walkers more though.

-John
 

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ive played against them already and i just out ran all their MC. THey still suck at shooting down armor.
 

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I have played against them as well, and as eric says, they armor is still the best defence against them. Also, flamers and Fire Prism blasts work exceptionally well. I found that ignoring and outrunning the MCs, while blasting guants and zoanthropes to shreds works pretty well.
 

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i have been looking at battle reports from some Nid Players and pretty much he destroys anything that will go toe to toe. One battle Report against tau was that the only thing that did anything was the crisis battle suits that were running around. so pretty much if your mobile with lots of shots pick of the troop choices and hold the objectives last turn other then that if you try and hold your ground im guessing he will have to paint some new eldar blood on those claws of his.
 

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I've also read some disturbing things. Stats like 10 T10 wounds and 6 S6 I5 WS5 attacks come up all too often. Even with a mobile army there is no way to both cause a dent and hold some ground. Also, fun fact: Zoanthropes can be taken in broods up to 3 now so 9 thropes in an army. nice. Complaining is useless, start converting jetbike seercouncils everyone!
 

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Do not forget as many dangerous nids attacks are psyhic powers, take the awesome rune of 3d6 and many perils for the psykers!
 

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Some of the things I'll mention are repeats, but:
- Zoans use psychic powers to kill you, so use Runes of Warding.
- Keep your distance. You will lose in CC against pretty much anything. Specially, beware of Warriors, Tyrants and Trygons.
- Don't rely on Prisms. They are great against hordes as always, but MCs laugh them off. Expect to have to deal with 18+ T6 wounds in 1500 points games, some of them from troops choices.
-Know when to assault. This may sound like I'm contradicting myself, but if you've got CC specialists like Banshees you'll have to know when to strike with them, and waht to strike at.
-Beware the Lash Whips. If you firect your attacks against a mini using lash whips you'll strike at I1, Banshee masks or not.
-Keep your psykers out of Shadow in the Warp. Lots of things have this, for free too, and it can shut down a council's survivability.
 

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yep it still sounds like that mech is the Achilles heel of tyranids but zoanthropes have a much better tankhunting attack on top of a much improved invul save and also the zoanthrope special character looks especially bad for well anything plus the ability to have larger swarms than ever before means that fighting them on foot is for those with a death wish(orks) but still its really awsome anyway cause i collect tyranids and eldar. overall though it seems that gw has really done alot toward improving upon the tyranids main weakpoint(vehicles) so mech lists still need to be careful.
 

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Everyone always wants to whine about a new Codex, so I typically avoid it, but wow, the new Nids -- if well played -- are pretty much unstoppable. I am hoping there is something in the way they play on the boad that makes their codex more balanced. Here's to hoping that only idiots buy piles of Nids in the coming months = highly unlikely. A combination of a 150 dirt cheap, running critters scurrying around, alongside a half dozen toughness-six, six-wound monsters, then all that deep striking, nasty CC, and I can't see how most armies stay on the board. The Guard can throw out enough dakka, they at least have a prayer. Everyone else can pretty much pretend they are "in it for the painting and hobby aspects of the game". I can see only one slight weakness in the new Nids, and that is the lack of much effective anti-armour, although they used to be completely useless in that regard, and now they even have a few answers there as well. Everything else they have in spades, for extremely cheap.

I am going to try:
Lots of Dire Avengers with Blade in Wave Serpents
Fire Prisms
Vipers with Missile Launcher/Shuriken Cannon
Fire Dragons in a Falcon = S8, AP1, BS 4 might put the hurt on MCs?
Prayer
Distraction
Quiet Wimpering
Begging

There just aren't enough weaknesses for the new Nids to fail against most opponents, unless played poorly, which is always a bad bet.

I can't see how even with Eldar speed we can hide on a 4 X 6 board. I can't see how we can hold objectives against a wall of Nids. Zipping around taking potshots and blazing away with Blade is all very well, but actually pulling off a win will be a miracle.

Guard have no CC, a HUGE defect. Space Marines/CSM are SLOW, we could always choose our battles. Necrons don't have the numbers and phase out. Orks are very tough, but if you are against Speed Freaks they don't have overwhelming numbers, and as Green Tide they could be shot up and whittled down. Tau have no CC, and not much speed.

I see no significant weakness in the Nids. They are the ONLY such army in 40K, and as such they have a HUGE advantage. They can get to you fast, they can cover the board with a horde, they can mangle you in CC, AND they can throw nigh-unstoppable T6 6W monsters at you. Whatever the Eldar choose, the Nids will have a counter, for fewer points. Nasty, nasty, nasty. This has to be the toughest codex for any opponent to face. There is no significant weakness to exploit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
What are you talking about, Powerclaw? there are no T10 W10 creatures in the list. like I said, i HAVE the codex.

The nids have few weaknesses, but these are some: Their troops, for the most part, are paper thin, being highly susceptible to any kind of fire. mostly all T3 with 6+ saves, for the swarm types. The stealers are still pretty thin, and warriors, being the thickest, are costly. The only way to really beef up the troops survivability are with venomthropes, which are also easy to kill, and take up valuable elite spots for the nids. doomed/guided bladestorms should, theoretically, almost take out entire broods of troop choices, and if placed right, stay out of assault range (if only the universe was ideal, right?)

Another advantage: a TON of their stuff doesn't have models. That isn't good for a lot of lazy gamers, and most of my games are what you see is what you get.

Also,very few things have BS above 3.

I think a mechanized list, that will in fact still be more mobile than even the nids, that can sucessfully split the nid army, and who focuses fire on the swarms, will have a good chance. Must use the mobility to stay at range. 2x prisms + 2x bladestorm serpents +doom/guide support should decimate half a nid army in one turn, if placed right, and if only focusing on troops. 2 instant kill large blasts, 64 bladestorm shots, doom/guide. keep the prisms out of range of warp lance, shouldn't be too hard.
 

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i just saw the new nid codex in action the other day but was surprised at the result.... it was nids VS marines at 1000 points, the nid player had a hive tryrant, canifex, 3 warriors, 15 or so termaguants ,15 or so hormagaunts and a few genestealers. the marine player had a captain, 3 squads of infantry( one mounted), a large squad of assult marines and some scouts. the battle went like this.... first turn nids move up and take some pot shots at the rhino and do nothing, the marine player commences to kill his genestealers with the infantry squads and do some damadge to the termagaunts reducing them to about 9 models. 2nd turn nid player moves and sucsessfully immoblises his rhino but thankfully rolls bad for his fleet and does not assult with his hormagaunts. the marine player takes advantage of this and mows down his hormaguants and finishes the termaguants however the assult marines scatter horribaly and end up mishapping! then the tryrant assults his commander and his squad, his carnifex assults his rhino squad, and the warriors get lucky and kill 3 marines with their weapons. basically that is the end, the next few turns the nid player dominated in combat and won..... if only the marine player had a dedicated heavy weapon team like devastators he probably would have won. even though i did not play against the new nids yet i have learned a few things on how to combat them with eldar.

analysis: the swarm broods like gaunts still die in droves and are relatively weak at shooting
bigger nids are easily outpaced and can be destroyed by a dedicated tank busting squad ( doom + 5- 6 fire dragons = dead carnifex or hive tyrant) and still need 6's to hit vehicles moving 12" regardless of prefered enemy so dont be afraid to get up close and personal with mech units like dragons.
 

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but still our tanks are under threat from lictors of all things they can pop up right behind any vehicle and shoot with a high S rending attack and that will seriously mess up prisms, serpents (even land raiders if lucky), and if the lictors happen to also pop up in cover then that makes them even harder to uproot with the exception of flamers. it might be a one shot deal like with fire dragons or not, and the death leaper can repeat that trick over and over again. it's going to get messy on the board for us if a brood of lictors and the death leaper pop our prisms and wave serpents.(if i remember correctly if a unit shoots at a transport vehicle and destroys it they can then assault the unit that the vehicle was transporting) if that happens you can kiss your fire dragons and dire avengers goodbye (banshees and scorps will do better i guess)
 

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I think there's a reason for huge Fire Dragon squads now. I don't know that we need an exarch but 10 guided shots at a tyrant and his guard retinue will do the trick. Then we die. I might need to get another big squad. They will be great for Warriors, Carnis, Tyrants, Trygons, and basicly everything big. DA's still rule for everything small so no stress.
 

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I think I'd save the fire dragons for warrior squads actually-- reliably instagibbing 3 wound scoring models seems like a better use. EMLs, scatter lasers, and shuricannons can fairly effectively wound T6 MCs at range, or in the case of a Trygon or Carnifex it's pretty easy to just outmaneuver. I'm personally banking on volume of S6 shots and bladestorms in my new all-comers lists; I'll be taking Spiders, Scatter walkers, and EMLs on every wave serpent. I'll probably try a few lists with Reapers too to test their effectiveness against the new T6 3+ MCs, but I don't think I'll be using any CC units. Banshee's and scorpions are still great against marines, but are going to be a lot less effective against the new nids (or at least not points efficient). Massed fire and S6 on the other hand can kill pretty much anything. If it's enough to kill 3 orks or 3 gaunts, it should be enough to kill 1 space marine.
 

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I think the Errata that GW put out gave the Synapse Creatures their no insta-kill rule back. This means that small 5-man FD squad will be doing 2-3 wounds so maybe 1 dead. This is of course BS since no model that good should be immune to S8 instant kill and be a troop choice.
 

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it's going to get messy on the board for us if a brood of lictors and the death leaper pop our prisms and wave serpents.(if i remember correctly if a unit shoots at a transport vehicle and destroys it they can then assault the unit that the vehicle was transporting) if that happens you can kiss your fire dragons and dire avengers goodbye (banshees and scorps will do better i guess)
except the turn they arrive they cant assault. a lictor also only has 2 s6 shots at bs3, so i'm not that worried about them. they could get very lucky, but chances are they wont. it's also a tactic with sufficiently low probability of success that i dont think too many folk will build that into their lists, given the other elite options nids need to take (zoans/hive guard).

as mech eldar, i'm not that worried. they're still pretty rubbish at killing armour. vupture cannon is decent, but stil BS3 and it costs 265 points to put ONE on the field. zoans are hurt quite a bit by RoWarding and after their alpha strike are pretty easy to kill. hive guard are the main danger imo, high strength, accurate and a tough model.. they comapre very well to a war walker with 2 EMLs and they'e 20 points cheaper (and dont wreck when immmoble!).

the swarm i'm not bothered about at all, at s3 they cant touch me, and being in skimmer tank i can pretty much ignore them. they die fast with low toughness and disasterous saves, and if you can knock out their anti-armour, then you can park 2 wave serpents on an objective and hold it, since gaunts have no way to contest or destroy the tanks.

oh and since i run yriel.. eye + 30 gaunts = fun ! :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
@powerclaw again, what exactly are you talking about? The synapse creature rule does not grant immunity to instant death. It just so happens many synapse creatures are T6, which grants them immunity to it. Tyranid warriors, Zoanthropes, lictors, venomthropes, the doom of malantai, the death leaper are ALL splattered with a will placed melta, bright lance or EML shot. That's a big downside...even things with lots of wounds don't necassarily have great Toughness.

In conclusion, tyranid warriors are insta-killed by melta shots.
 
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