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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, I am working on makeing my chaos list more mechanized. I think i have a pretty solid core or troops in rhinos, but i would like your input on the as the title implys how effective is a dreads / defiler combo? I was thinking of running 2 dreads and 2 deiflers all with extra ccw. If it is not wise to take 2 of each i do have a Land Raider i can take and still take 1 of each for just a bit cheaper if I give it demonic possesion.

Please advise and share stories of your epic cool armoured walkers.
 

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LO Zealot
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My competative tourney list runs 2x dreads with MLs + DCCW + HF and 2x defilers w/ 2x DCCW. This combo can be VERY effective... The defilers will likely draw a ton of fire while the dreads advance relatively unscathed. The missile launchers on the dreads are the most versatile and safest weapon you can have and work great ( as Rabbit likes to point out) at popping transports, something chaos sometime has trouble doing cheaply.
 

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My competative tourney list runs 2x dreads with MLs + DCCW + HF and 2x defilers w/ 2x DCCW. This combo can be VERY effective... The defilers will likely draw a ton of fire while the dreads advance relatively unscathed. The missile launchers on the dreads are the most versatile and safest weapon you can have and work great ( as Rabbit likes to point out) at popping transports, something chaos sometime has trouble doing cheaply.
IronAngel - quick question. I am in the midst of working up a 2,000 point list and had an initial thought of running a Heavy/Elite comp very similar to what you use. Problem is I ran into a point squeeze (using a Nurgle-theme so troops are costly).

Concerning your competitive build, what point size is it and how have you arranged the other components of the list to work with a fairly sizable Elites/HS section (guessing somewhere in the range of ~520pts?). I really like the idea of fielding 2 dreads and 2 defilers, just curious how others have integrated it into their army strategem at 1850-2000.

Any thoughts you could share would be greatly appreciated!
 

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One Awesome Dude
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My competitive list is very similar to Iron Angel's. Outside of uber-Lash of Submission cheddar, it's probably our most competitive build. (At least, I think so). The problem with the Dreadnoughts is that while you're going to want to give them stuff a whole lot better than a Missile Launcher, you've got to restrain yourself, especially if you are bringing lots of Plague Marines, who cost way too much to lose to friendly fire.

I suppose part of the real irony is that people will try quite hard to destroy the Defilers, this lets the Dreadnoughts sort of creep up on the enemy and before they know it they've got some big problems. For me personally, I usually shoot the Defiler's Battlecannon (which by the way, I believe you should almost always switch out the secondary weapons for extra DCCW) for the first turn or two, the Fleet and try to dash quickly into CC to protect it from further ranged damage (and to mess up the enemy's units!). Where possible, I'd try to keep the Defiler covered somehow, whether by Rhino, terrain or whatever, but the low armor value means they won't be soaking up as much punishment as our other Heavy Support choices.

The whole theory is basically to present as many tempting, nasty targets as possible (Dreds, Defilers, D. Prince) so that the enemy has difficulty keeping up, hopefully, something will make it through to the enemy battle line. Disabling/occupying/destroying even one or two important enemy units usually gives you the momentum you need to push forward and do what Chaos does best (go.fight.win).

Hope this helps. Let us know if you have any more questions (sorry, I'm a little short on specific stories, other than to say that Grey Knight players will HATE your Defilers)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ok well I really like the input so far, i was always wanting it run something like this back in 3rd ed. but we did not have the slots cuz dreads were Heavy Support.

The next question would be deployment. I assume that the dreads deploy together and all the way to the front, do you try to put them in the center of your formation(?), and where do you try and put your Defilers?
 

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Much appreciated, IronAngel!

Very interesting list. Impressive amount of arnor/nastiness for 1750 - dreads and defilers and even a pred to boot with 4 troops choices thrown in for good measure.

Out of curiosity, what would you say gives you the most difficulty with that list?
 

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Having alot of armor units can make the game difficult for the oppenet i run a 6 dreadnought army SM with the new rule sounds crappy but once you start playing 6 dreads coming out of drop pods scares the crap out of oppenets.
 

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In my competetive list I actually run 2 Defilers w/extra ccw and reaper autocannon and 3 Dreads w/ missile launchers. It is very true that most opponents ignore the dreads and fire completely at your Defilers (I even run a winged prince and land raider full of berzerkers and both usually get ignored). Some people hate losing their Defilers early in the game due to focused fire, but that gives your Rhinos free reign over the field, and with our troops, that is very bad for your opponent.
 

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LO Zealot
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The list I posted is fairly good against anything but you really have to be careful with the movement and positioning of the dreads and defilers. Your opponent WILL try to sneak landspeeders, attack bikes, falcons, wave serpents, etc around behind them to get at the armor 10. I'll usually throw the 2 dreads out onto a flank by themselves and just keep moving them up every turn. I try to keep the defilers in the middle of my formation to help shelter them as much as possible from units trying to creep around behind them and also to try and give them cover whenever possible.
 

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Here is the list I was using for a long time at my local shop's campaign (which I won)

Nurgles x7
Melta x2
Power fist
Rhino

Nurgles x7
Melta x2
Power fist
Rhino

Khornites x7
Power fist
Rhino w/ havoc launcher (spare points went into launcher, no better options)

Khornites x7
Power fist
Rhino

Vindicator w/ D.P.

Dreaddy w/ rocket launcher

Defiler w/ DCCWx2

Oblit x1

Demon prince w/ wings and lash x2

So if you took this to 2000 pts, you could add another dreddy and defiler easily, you'd have to drop the oblit though.
 

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This all sounds similar to the Chaoszilla idea; one I've always wanted to try.

3 Defilers with 2xDCCW
3 Dreads with 2xDCCW
2 DP w/ wings

All this for barely over 1K pts, and you've got enough Monstrous Creatures (or their mechanized equivalents) to rival any Tyranid army.
 

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LO Zealot
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When we say 2 we actually mean 2 extra close combat weapons...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
This all sounds similar to the Chaoszilla idea; one I've always wanted to try.

3 Defilers with 2xDCCW
3 Dreads with 2xDCCW
2 DP w/ wings

All this for barely over 1K pts, and you've got enough Monstrous Creatures (or their mechanized equivalents) to rival any Tyranid army.
don't forget the Greater Deamon also, he is as hard to kill as nid MCs also but cheaper, and he does not have to walk all the way accross the board.



Ok you can talk trash about the deamon now...
 

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My present tourney list for 2k:

1x Prince w/ wings, nurgle
1x Lord w/ nurgle, daemon weapon

2x dread w/ missile launcher and DCCW

2x CSM x10 w/ 2x Flamer, P.Fist champ, IoCG, Rhino
1x Plaguemarine x8 w/ Plasmagun x2, P.Fist Champ, Icon, Rhino
1x Lesser Daemons x9

1x Defiler
2x Obliterator x3

With just the 1 Defiler in my list, I don't try to push it up the field. I find a nice tall bit of terrain for it to climb near the back and take pot shots with it's cannon from cover. It's still a big threat and still a fire magnet (especially as the only big blast template). If it dies soon, it bought time for the rhinos, dreads, and DP to close and took some heat off the oblits. If it lives, it makes my opponent really think how he wants to move to avoid a "Hit" on that cannon's scatter die.

The dreads only occassionally make it to melee for me. They're usually sniping with the missile launchers at enemy transports as they close, making assaults easier from the 3 troop squads, and at the same time eating way more firepower then 100pts should really warrant. Again, buying time for oblits and possibly rhinos.

The army's real ranged power is the oblits, but it's fairly easy to make sure the Defiler and Dreads have a very high target priority and it takes some time and dedicated firepower to dig out 6 oblits in cover. The result is that oblits have never been competely wiped out in a game yet, but the defiler and dreads are almost always wrecks by turn 5's end. Or at least maimed into near uselessness, although even then they can surprise you (heh, had a dread charged by a termie squad with uber SM IC, get immobilized and both arms knocked off, but it held them locked for 2 more turns anyway and even killed one despite the loss of DCCW, which was long enough for game end letting me claim the objective they could have otherwise contested).

It's been a highly effective combo for me in terms of target saturation with a lot of high threat but low point cost units covering for the expensive and deadly troops / oblit combo. Defilers and Dreads have that potential to die to a single shot, making them juicy targets, but it almost never happens that way, making them absorb a lot of fire before they finally drop.
 

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If you look in Ironangels post he linked to on the first page I already gave my lists I play with walkers and a few comments.

Defliers are great to get targetted but their low armor usually means they are out in the first few turns. Dreadnaughts are usually the ones that mess up the most my opponents. They are lower priority targets then defilers and rhinos full of berzerkers or CSM with MoK so they usually get close enaugh to the action to take out independant characters or tanks. In my area everyone that can run a powerfist runs one so tackling with a full unit of 10 with a "hidden" powerfist is not recommended for your walkers, tanks and IC are the targets you must choose.

Eldar Witchblades are the bane of walkers do not get close to them, but they usually come to you anyways. MC pretty much eat walkers for breakfast in cc so avoid them as much as possible, most do not move to fast but the ones with wings are hard to avoid. Assault termies with thunder hammer and storm shield must be avoided at all cost with walkers, good thing they are not to fast except in land raider equivalents.

I usually run my whole army bunched up so when you get hit by it you feel the pain, spreading everything out makes the list less effective. Having to deal with a whole army on the move is a lot harder then when the army comes up one by one.

The armies double defiler and double dreads pretty much walk over without a scratch are necrons, grey knights and shooty eldar (str6 spam lists). With berzerkers and CSM with the MoK to backup your walkers orks are pretty easy to beat also, without the extra punch its a lot harder. SM that use a lot of combat squads are easier to beat with walkers then the ones that keep the units grouped up because the powerfists can be killed pretty fast in a 5 man unit, on a 10 man unit you will die before hitting the powerfist.
 
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