How to beat nids and bt?
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Joined
·
29 Posts
wasn't this is white dwarf?:yes:
Joined
·
1,141 Posts
Quick summary:
Tyranids are a swarm army. Thus, poor armour saves except for the MCs. Therefore, use Fire Warriors(Pulse Rifles) and Railhead submunitions to deal with the majority, while regular Railgun rounds and plasma rifles will work well against the MCs. Fusion blasters are a bad idea, although I would consider giving a Crisis two flamers (they do not become twin-linked, they stay separate).
Black Templars are Space Marines. To deal with Space Marines, use Crisis toting Plasma Rifles and either Missle Pods or Fusion Blasters. Ionheads are also a decent option, and Pathfinders can do a decent job, although they start getting kinda expensive for such a small squad.
Both of these armies will try and get close to you, so take some Kroot, maybe even some Kroot Hounds if you like and have extra Fast Attack space. Hide them in forests, and let the enemy charge. Though you won't get extra attacks, you will strike first or simultaneously, and their shooting isn't half bad. For most lists, in the 2000 point area, I suggest a full squad of Broadsides with a shield generator and two target locks, and two Hammerheads. The rest is up to player preference, but I have found this Heavy Support setup to work well.
Happy gaming.
Tyranids are a swarm army. Thus, poor armour saves except for the MCs. Therefore, use Fire Warriors(Pulse Rifles) and Railhead submunitions to deal with the majority, while regular Railgun rounds and plasma rifles will work well against the MCs. Fusion blasters are a bad idea, although I would consider giving a Crisis two flamers (they do not become twin-linked, they stay separate).
Black Templars are Space Marines. To deal with Space Marines, use Crisis toting Plasma Rifles and either Missle Pods or Fusion Blasters. Ionheads are also a decent option, and Pathfinders can do a decent job, although they start getting kinda expensive for such a small squad.
Both of these armies will try and get close to you, so take some Kroot, maybe even some Kroot Hounds if you like and have extra Fast Attack space. Hide them in forests, and let the enemy charge. Though you won't get extra attacks, you will strike first or simultaneously, and their shooting isn't half bad. For most lists, in the 2000 point area, I suggest a full squad of Broadsides with a shield generator and two target locks, and two Hammerheads. The rest is up to player preference, but I have found this Heavy Support setup to work well.
Happy gaming.
Joined
·
412 Posts
Good advice. A standard static army with lots of firewarriros would do extreemely well against tyranids. Trying to outmanuver a large horde army could prove difficult, tyranids can spread out into assault from 19-24" away with the right upgrades. Submunitions of course. And chrisis suits with flamers? I hadn't really considered that. It's an expensive unit to charge into CC with Tyranids. Having better morale for target priority and the ability to reroll moral checks would be very worthwhile. I'd consider taking Aun'shi as an HQ choise since chrisis commanders arent as usefull here. Stealth suits can still be worthwhile.lLonginus said:
I'd just place your firewarriors in cover with nice, long fireing lanes, give em photon grenades and back em up with kroot and kroot hounds to countercharge. Thats my favorite tactic anyway. Your fire warriors deny them the charge attack bonus and make up for their horrible initiative with cover, and their armor stops half his wounds. Then, kroot can countercharge and overwhelm anything that survived your fireing line.
Except for your hammerheads I'd say go quantity over quality here. JSJ doesnt make a load of difference to an army who doesnt shoot back.
As for templars? Well thats pretty easy I suppose, do the oppisite. Lots of battlesuits, yeay!
Joined
·
1,141 Posts
On my suggestion with equipping flamers:
Tau flamers are often, nay, almost always ignored, just like the burst cannon. The flamer is the ONLY weapon under S5 that the Tau can take (notice how I didn't say Kroot). However, let's look at the benefits of putting a pair on our Crisis suits:
Flamers are cheap as heck, a multi-tracker dual flamer toting Crisis costs 47 points. Cheap
Against Tyranids, we can expect the fighting to get up close and personal.
Flamers negate most Tyranids armour save.
Flamers ALWAYS hit, which is nice with our Shas'ui.
A team of 3 flamer Crisis will cost 141 points, and will kill a squad of Guants or Stealers in a turn.
Your entire army is likely to get in close with the Tyranids, and Crisis have good stats for CC(ignore the Ws).
Crisis can be good for holding off an assaulting unit coming for your firebase.
Against hordes, there is no better weapon than a flamer. Or submunition, but Crisis can't take that.
On the downside, our Crisis could easily get locked in cc, but as I mentioned, they have good stats compared to your average guant, and you aren't losing too much in points. Flamer Crisis would only work well against a Nid swarm, Ork horde, Dark Eldar or IG. Other armies it would be utterly futile, making common practice of this tactic unwise. Which means, since I live at SM central, I may never get to try this, but fortunately, a friend is starting IG. Armoured Company...
Tau flamers are often, nay, almost always ignored, just like the burst cannon. The flamer is the ONLY weapon under S5 that the Tau can take (notice how I didn't say Kroot). However, let's look at the benefits of putting a pair on our Crisis suits:
Flamers are cheap as heck, a multi-tracker dual flamer toting Crisis costs 47 points. Cheap
Against Tyranids, we can expect the fighting to get up close and personal.
Flamers negate most Tyranids armour save.
Flamers ALWAYS hit, which is nice with our Shas'ui.
A team of 3 flamer Crisis will cost 141 points, and will kill a squad of Guants or Stealers in a turn.
Your entire army is likely to get in close with the Tyranids, and Crisis have good stats for CC(ignore the Ws).
Crisis can be good for holding off an assaulting unit coming for your firebase.
Against hordes, there is no better weapon than a flamer. Or submunition, but Crisis can't take that.
On the downside, our Crisis could easily get locked in cc, but as I mentioned, they have good stats compared to your average guant, and you aren't losing too much in points. Flamer Crisis would only work well against a Nid swarm, Ork horde, Dark Eldar or IG. Other armies it would be utterly futile, making common practice of this tactic unwise. Which means, since I live at SM central, I may never get to try this, but fortunately, a friend is starting IG. Armoured Company...
Joined
·
412 Posts
Hmm, good point. Lets say you made a balanced list and threw a flamethrower and dual linked plasma rifle on a chrisis suit. Think you could kill enough IG/DE/Ork/Nids to make up that point cost?lLonginus said:On my suggestion with equipping flamers:
Tau flamers are often, nay, almost always ignored, just like the burst cannon. The flamer is the ONLY weapon under S5 that the Tau can take (notice how I didn't say Kroot). However, let's look at the benefits of putting a pair on our Crisis suits:
Flamers are cheap as heck, a multi-tracker dual flamer toting Crisis costs 47 points. Cheap
Against Tyranids, we can expect the fighting to get up close and personal.
Flamers negate most Tyranids armour save.
Flamers ALWAYS hit, which is nice with our Shas'ui.
A team of 3 flamer Crisis will cost 141 points, and will kill a squad of Guants or Stealers in a turn.
Your entire army is likely to get in close with the Tyranids, and Crisis have good stats for CC(ignore the Ws).
Crisis can be good for holding off an assaulting unit coming for your firebase.
Against hordes, there is no better weapon than a flamer. Or submunition, but Crisis can't take that.
On the downside, our Crisis could easily get locked in cc, but as I mentioned, they have good stats compared to your average guant, and you aren't losing too much in points. Flamer Crisis would only work well against a Nid swarm, Ork horde, Dark Eldar or IG. Other armies it would be utterly futile, making common practice of this tactic unwise. Which means, since I live at SM central, I may never get to try this, but fortunately, a friend is starting IG. Armoured Company...
Joined
·
1,141 Posts
If I were to couple anything with a flamer when fighting an army of poor armour saves, I would give it a Missle Pod. Better range, capability of destroying tanks, and more shots at range for less points. However, the dual flamers and multi-tracker combo make for the cheapest crisis available, it's due to this low cost that it does not stack up with other suits in terms of range or firepower, which are the Tau's main concerns. I would recommend staying with the dual flamers and multitracker. Remaking points cost would be easy, especially against orks.
A point on the terms "twin" and "dual": Despite similarities of meaning shared by these two words, the terms "twin" and "dual" are quite different in the Universe that is Warhammer 40,000. The word "dual" implies that there are two, while the word "twin" implies that there are two that are also a pair. Here's what it means to the game:
Dual: There are two guns that fire separately. They roll to hit and wound normally.
Twin: There are two guns that fire together. Any failed to hit rolls are re-rolled, but you only have base shots. Saying a "linked" gun has the same effect.
A prime example of this is the sponson weapons on a Predator. An Annihilator will wield dual sponson heavy bolters, and a twin-lascannon turret.
Dual means two, while twin means twin-linked. Thus, by saying "a flamer and dual linked plasma rifle on a chrisis suit", you are implying that the "Chrisis" suit will be using a flamethrower, and two twin-linked plasma rifles, totaling in 5 weapons on three hard points, and we don't even have a multi-tracker yet!
And Steven, for your sake, it's spelled "Crisis", not "Chrisis". Although Chris's suits could make quite the crisis for my Leman Russ's rear armour, I won't always be playing Chris.
The points of having a Crisis suit toting dual flamers were: inexpensive, auto-hit, agile unit, multiple wound unit, multiple wounds inflicted.
Inexpensive- This model totals out at 47 points. That means 141 for a full squad. These guys are comparable to Terminators, but far more agile, meaning that a 47 point model can easily earn back its points. Even in Close Combat with guants.
Auto-hit- flamers don't require a to-hit roll, and they have an effective range of appx. 8".
Agile unit- this squad moves 12" a turn, and can easily get the jump on any infantry squad.
Multiple wound unit- That's right, Crisis have two.
Multiple wounds inflicted- six flamer templates on one squad... is gonna hurt a lot.
This squad will eat any squad with a poor armour save. They will also do rather well in close combat. Just try not to get them stuck in.
A point on the terms "twin" and "dual": Despite similarities of meaning shared by these two words, the terms "twin" and "dual" are quite different in the Universe that is Warhammer 40,000. The word "dual" implies that there are two, while the word "twin" implies that there are two that are also a pair. Here's what it means to the game:
Dual: There are two guns that fire separately. They roll to hit and wound normally.
Twin: There are two guns that fire together. Any failed to hit rolls are re-rolled, but you only have base shots. Saying a "linked" gun has the same effect.
A prime example of this is the sponson weapons on a Predator. An Annihilator will wield dual sponson heavy bolters, and a twin-lascannon turret.
Dual means two, while twin means twin-linked. Thus, by saying "a flamer and dual linked plasma rifle on a chrisis suit", you are implying that the "Chrisis" suit will be using a flamethrower, and two twin-linked plasma rifles, totaling in 5 weapons on three hard points, and we don't even have a multi-tracker yet!
And Steven, for your sake, it's spelled "Crisis", not "Chrisis". Although Chris's suits could make quite the crisis for my Leman Russ's rear armour, I won't always be playing Chris.
The points of having a Crisis suit toting dual flamers were: inexpensive, auto-hit, agile unit, multiple wound unit, multiple wounds inflicted.
Inexpensive- This model totals out at 47 points. That means 141 for a full squad. These guys are comparable to Terminators, but far more agile, meaning that a 47 point model can easily earn back its points. Even in Close Combat with guants.
Auto-hit- flamers don't require a to-hit roll, and they have an effective range of appx. 8".
Agile unit- this squad moves 12" a turn, and can easily get the jump on any infantry squad.
Multiple wound unit- That's right, Crisis have two.
Multiple wounds inflicted- six flamer templates on one squad... is gonna hurt a lot.
This squad will eat any squad with a poor armour save. They will also do rather well in close combat. Just try not to get them stuck in.
I don't have a codex handy but I'm almost positive it says crisis suits CAN NOT take two of the same system (weapon or otherwise) unless twin linking. This means only one flamer. But 2 sure would be nice. I often take flamers as an alternate weapon on twin linked suits but it rarely gets used. Best to keep those XV8's at a distance.:yes: If I knew I was playing Nids I would always take them, but probably w/ a plasma rifle and multi-tracker. This allows the crisis to either target Tyranid Monstrous Creatures or cook guant swarms when, and only when, they get too close.
On the topic of Nids, I've faced them often and find playing a fast list works best. With A little luck an experienced Nid general will reach static elements w/o sustaining too many casualties and every friend of the "Blueis" knows this is bad.
Use HH's and sub-blast genestealers first as thier rending can bring down your tanks if enough of them connect. I use XV8's w/ plasma to dispatch Zoanthropes as quickly as possible because these guys' psychic powers can cause real trouble for your tanks. Lastly, I often use my XV15's to deep strike and counter biovores, which are also a threat to tanks. Last thing to worry about are those nasty spores that deep strike but there isn't much counter for these besides keeping your tanks moving to downgrade penetrating hits.
Once these units have been dispatched the Nids will find it almost impossible to bring down your tanks, allowing you to slaughter his forces unchecked and use Firewarriors in Develfish to secure objectives.
When fighting the Hive Mind in this fashion I've yet to lose, but have had a tie or two.
Can someone w/ a codex verify the above rule about XV8 flamers please? I believe its in the battlesuit wargear section somewhere.
Phase Out....
On the topic of Nids, I've faced them often and find playing a fast list works best. With A little luck an experienced Nid general will reach static elements w/o sustaining too many casualties and every friend of the "Blueis" knows this is bad.
Use HH's and sub-blast genestealers first as thier rending can bring down your tanks if enough of them connect. I use XV8's w/ plasma to dispatch Zoanthropes as quickly as possible because these guys' psychic powers can cause real trouble for your tanks. Lastly, I often use my XV15's to deep strike and counter biovores, which are also a threat to tanks. Last thing to worry about are those nasty spores that deep strike but there isn't much counter for these besides keeping your tanks moving to downgrade penetrating hits.
Once these units have been dispatched the Nids will find it almost impossible to bring down your tanks, allowing you to slaughter his forces unchecked and use Firewarriors in Develfish to secure objectives.
When fighting the Hive Mind in this fashion I've yet to lose, but have had a tie or two.
Can someone w/ a codex verify the above rule about XV8 flamers please? I believe its in the battlesuit wargear section somewhere.
Phase Out....
Joined
·
412 Posts
Joined
·
1,497 Posts
Yes, a suit can only have one flamer. If you could do two it might be too tempting to make a suicide lone flamer DS suit!
Joined
·
412 Posts
Man, if I had regular chrisis suit for 47 pts I'd totally throw it at a horde. I'd paint the red sun on that bad boy!Sir_Prometheus said:
Joined
·
1,325 Posts
Two ways to handle this situation.
1.) Go mobile, mech, and learn how to do the fish of fury tactic. Making it hard for people to CC you. Load up on hammerheads and just pump them with shells. Hit and run, and cleanse them.
2.) Static, load up maybe on a lot drones, or possibly even kroot may stand glory being cheaper and providing more shots to your numbers. Fire warrior massing doesnt sound bad either. just know how to prioritize your targets and focus on them without split firign your whole army.
1.) Go mobile, mech, and learn how to do the fish of fury tactic. Making it hard for people to CC you. Load up on hammerheads and just pump them with shells. Hit and run, and cleanse them.
2.) Static, load up maybe on a lot drones, or possibly even kroot may stand glory being cheaper and providing more shots to your numbers. Fire warrior massing doesnt sound bad either. just know how to prioritize your targets and focus on them without split firign your whole army.
Joined
·
1,141 Posts
I am nigh certain that you can take two separate flamers. They are the exception weapon, they don't have the twin-linked option because twin-linking them would be utterly pointless. Why would you want to re-roll a to hit roll on a gun that automatically hits?
The Crisis is often suited with much better roles, such as tank hunting, or filling that much needed anti-power armour slot. However, the option for the dual flamer Crisis exists. Please, read the codex carefully and get back to me on this. I would but... *points to sig.
The Crisis is often suited with much better roles, such as tank hunting, or filling that much needed anti-power armour slot. However, the option for the dual flamer Crisis exists. Please, read the codex carefully and get back to me on this. I would but... *points to sig.
Illegal.
I don't know how to tell you how to beat nids and bt. All I do is deny them shots at my stuff. It annoys my opponents and they have been telling me for weeks now that tau are too good and need to be made weaker. Just deny them stuff to shoot at, and run away from combat.
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
