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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With the release of the the new vampire counts army, my wood elves are having great difficulty in winning against them. I used to be able to massacre my oppenents but now... all is not well. Was just wondering if any people have any tactics against VC to share. The problem is my oppenent has 8 pd from his lord and pool dice this is then used to raise whole units that may have been down to a few models back to full strength. He uses 1 dice and gets +2 to cast on skellies and +1 to cast on zombies. So he uses 1 dice raises d6+4 or +1 on a roll of 3+ and then gets +2 to his score. Makes it very hard to win games as it usally ends up as a sluffest me killing loads and then him raising.

So I thought I would make this thread for people to share their tactics, plans, stories regarding the new Vampire Counts.
 

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A Freaking Ninja!
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Well i played the new VC yesterday, he used manfred, a vampire, and a Battle Standard Bearer, all of which i killing blowed ^^ the magic wasnt really that great, if u have multiple combats going on then its hard for your opponent to overwhelm you even with that +9 zombie thing...

Its best if you just have your units as usual supporting each other in the front + flank + rear when possible, and just kill his main character, then you can easily whittle down the numbers in combat.
 

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Really, I don't find the to be as difficult as people hype them up to be. I mean I think that WE are one of their worst matchups. I have not used my WE against the but my TK and Empire have ripped them to shreds. I think if played wrong the Wood Elves can be beat however the VC MUST outplay you. Armies the VC stand virtually no chance are Tz DL, nurgle DL, and TK with WE prolly the next best army to beat them. Tell me what you have tried doing and we might be able to help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'll begin by telling you more about his army. He has 2 units of 5 black knights. 2 units of 3 wraiths. He puts both his lord and wight battle standard bearer in the same unit of skeletons. His battle standard has banner of regeneration so whole unit effectivly has 4+ ward save. he has 10 pd all together and 8 are used by his lors who has +2 to cast IoN on his skeleton units. Also he can raise above the starting number of skeletons so by the time i actually get into close combt he has a very big unit 40+ last game. He puts his wraiths infront of this unit to stop me from charging my wardancers in and trying to kiiling blow lord. also he protect his flanks with more skellies so as soon as I charge in he conters with a unit into flank ( if i charge unit next to lords his lords unit charges into my flank and if I try to charge lordss unit skellies charge my flank. Also as soon as i get into combat with any unit he justs start rasing like mad into that unit with his 8 dice +2 to cast IoN and my magic defense of 4 scrolls and 6 dispel dice is not enuogh. H e has trouble massacaring me but he always pulls off victories. All my shooting comes to nothing as he just raises. I try to pull off multiple charges but since has such big units i can almost never break through a unit completly and then usally getting counter charged.
Any help would be appreciated.
 

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LO Zealot
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I've fought the new Vampires with my Wood Elves, and they're not at all unbeatable - you just have to play against it as any wood elf would against any opponent, charge the fights you want to fight, and flee the rest.

Don't even bother fighting any unit with that f****** regen banner in it, unless you're shooting flaming cannons or screaming skull catapults at it, it's just too tough to take down (imagine it in a Grave Guard unit that also has the Wight Banner like I had to face!). March block it and avoid it the entire game. Let him raise all the skeletons he wants to it, just never let it EVER see combat! Baiting him to charge you into some woods is a great move. You want to kill everything aside from that unit.

If you manage to just kill a couple of Corpse Carts and Zombie Hordes in six turns, you won't win by much, but it'll be a victory nonetheless. Eventually, opponents will all learn to avoid the cheeseball regen unit of death, which will in turn lead to Vampire players taking the big point sink that never sees combat out of their lists, then it'll be back to a game of strategy, instead of who has the biggest boner banner.

Also, the two best ways to counter Wraith units for Wood Elves is a) the Hail of Doom Arrow, and b) Glade Guard joined by a character who has A Reslendence of Luminescents.

When you fight skeletons (or any undead unit for that matter), you've got to understand and precalculate how long you should expect to kill everything -- because everyone is unbreakable, once you're in combat, you don't leave until they're all dead, or you flee.

Never charge headlong into a skeleton unit! That's exactly what he wants you to do, because that's the easiest way for him to have at least 1 skeleton left to hold you up and then counter charge with something nasty into your flank. You have got to negate his ranks and devestate him with attacks on the charge. Luckily, Wood Elves is one of the easier armies to pull this off with. 6 Wild Riders with full command and the War Banner into the flank with a lot of Eternal Guard with full command and BSB to the front is usually enough to completely wipe out 25 skeletons in one fell swoop.

And if your opponent gives you shit about how it takes two expensive units to kill ~250pts of his army, just smile and say that's how Wood Elves are to be played.

...

......

Then take his BSB model with the Regen Banner and wipe your butt with it.
 

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I have a cunning plan
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As a VC player I find wood elves one of the tougher armies to beat.

You are more mobile than him so use it to your advantage, pick fights you will win in one go to prevent repairs. Each unit of zombies he raises are worth 50 VP's and are very easy to kill with glade gaurd.
Units of 3 wraiths are small expensive and can easily be take out by dryads or a hail of doom arrow so should be easy VP's for you. Units of 5 knights will go down to wardancers or wild riders on the charge.

The large lord unit with BSB will be very tough to destroy with regeneration so ignore it and kill the rest of his army including any other expensive characters he has. Remember each new zombie unit he creates will be another 50 VP for you to go and claim which will mean less of a reason to fight his skeleton unit.
 

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/botnobot/
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Lots of good advice here. The knights can be taken out with a flank charge or the arcane bodkins. Wraiths are big targets for forest spirits or the hail of doom arrow. Don't charge skellies unless you can killing blow the general in there. You can beat them without taking out large units by picking off smaller units, grabbing banners from knights, taking quarters.

Or you do what someone else has said. Pile on so much combat resolution that his unit just won't last.



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Hmm that unit. Well hopefully more people will do what I am beggining to do and use 2 units of scouts (amazing btw). Those 2 units can prolly keep that unit busy the entire game, I am sure I can do it, so you might be able to. Remember skirmishers are the best redirectors in the game and u have plenty. Just avoid the unit. Get TQs, the black knights can easily be shot down or dealt with dryads/ riders/ dancers. WE are prolly the 2nd best army equipped to deal with wraiths (demons obviously first) and 6 wounds T4 no as for a nice number of points will be very easy to obtain. I hope our advice helps. I've only lost once against the new VC and that was because my opponent argued he could raise into combat (please don't start an argument, you may have your interpretations but i feel the issue is clear).
 

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LO Zealot
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Well hopefully more people will do what I am beggining to do and use 2 units of scouts (amazing btw). Those 2 units can prolly keep that unit busy the entire game, I am sure I can do it, so you might be able to. Remember skirmishers are the best redirectors in the game and u have plenty. Just avoid the unit. Get TQs, the black knights can easily be shot down or dealt with dryads/ riders/ dancers. WE are prolly the 2nd best army equipped to deal with wraiths (demons obviously first) and 6 wounds T4 no as for a nice number of points will be very easy to obtain. I hope our advice helps. I've only lost once against the new VC and that was because my opponent argued he could raise into combat (please don't start an argument, you may have your interpretations but i feel the issue is clear).
sorry to disagree with you, but 2 units of scouts is a good way to throw points down the drain. The cairn wraiths move faster, shoot better and fight better than any scouts you may have (scouts can't touch them and will be run down) and he has 2 of those wraith units.

Black Knights have better movement, save and attacks than any of the units you described (except for WD which I've never had luck in using) You guys are forgetting the #1 problem with VC which is the ability to danse multiple times a turn. With minimal dispel dice and the VC ability to store dice or generate at least twice as many dice, as well as several ASF spells, it's hard to get a decent charge off. Staying in protracted conflicts is also a bad idea for frail tree elves. We should deal with VC better than others, but there are still some problems, esp. with a competent opponent.
 

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just like to point out that he is casting spells on a 3+ which you cant do. A roll of a 3 or less is always a fail even with modifiers.

The way I deal with VC is to try and take lots of Killing Blow. Wardancer characters with the reroll failed wounds magic weapon + killing blow dance. He is magic so will cut through ethereal. if he is a lord choice give him spites for his unit to have magic attacks and aim as many attacks as you can at the vampire when you get at him/her and prey they arnt immune to killing blow. the wildfire blades (think thats the wardancer weapons) are flaming if memory serves so his regen wont work :D
 

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just like to point out that he is casting spells on a 3+ which you cant do. A roll of a 3 or less is always a fail even with modifiers.
No, 3 is the minimum to cast, a 1 or 2 is always a fail (BRB, Page 107 under "Minimum 3 to Cast").

EDIT: Though from the sound of things his opponent was claiming he cast IoN on skellies on 2+ (combo of skull staff and Lord of the Dead?) which is breaking the rule.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
No he wasn't casting onto skellies on a 2+ (we both know minimum of 3 to cast rule) but he was getting +2 to all his castings on skellies so rolling 1 dice and getting a 6 would boost it to 8 and then require 3 dice to dispel it effectivly. And any spell that did cast would be cast on 5 or more since he gets +2, making it very hard to dispel especially when he does 8 times a turn.
 

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There's a good discussion going on here, and I think it's gonna help in my baptism of fire tonight, when I'm fighting those guys for the first time. But there's one thing I'm curious about: how will my ancient treeman with AoN manage against a vampire lord (who is not tooled for treeman hunting since it's universal armies). The treeman is tough and is hit on 6+, so I think he will stay rooted with the vampire lord, but probably not kill him. 400 points of treeman keeping 400 points of vampire from rampaging your frail frail elves :) though he unfortunately still casts magic...
 

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Treeman Ancients stack up well against a Vamp Lord, yes, but He'll always win combat. Stubborn 9LD is nice, but you're going to fail eventually.
 

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What people said is pretty much right- stay as far away from his General's skellie block as possible, or , if he doesn't use armour with his lord, try sniping it. Overall, though, if you can kill his other units and ignore the skeletons, your gold. His main block is probably around 600+ points. If you get a unit behind it (maybe with a scouting lord and a magical weapon) to march block it, then he'd have to waste two turns to take out that unit, or risk his wraiths being killed by your hero. Maybe add some tree-singing hijinks. If his big block is stuck in terrain, then it will take forever for it to get anywhere.
 

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I too have to enter battle with the vampires for the first time in my upcoming tounament(my list is in the army list section), i have an idea what two of the vampire generals are taking. one uses cairn wraiths with a banshee and a black coach. the coach is whats worrying me. how the hell do i kill that thing before it absorbs too many dice? the other guy is using 2 Varghulfs. both of them just raise like hell and synergise things like the 10pt banner of magical and flaming attacks with corpse cart and helm of command.

Mainly though, the varghulfs and black coach are worrisome because of their superior movement an abilities. based on my list (reachable below), what can i do?


http://www.librarium-online.com/for.../117495-2000pts-tournament-list-balanced.html
 

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I'm not sure if you can, but you could take a cannon from DoW to deal with the coach.
The best way to deal with his lord will probably be the ancient, if he refuses the challenge then he makes no PD or DD (whoo).
 
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