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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Recently in a local tourney Boldo (some may know him from Bugman's Brewery. He has written several tacticas and has played stunties forever!) sqared off against the new VC. I don't know the specifics items that made this happen but the GG where equiped with Great Weapons so they were Str 6, used the General's WS (remember we are talking about a Vamp Lord), and I believe got +1 to hit.

At any rate it ate a unit of Hamerers with Lord in three rounds of combat.

So what would your strategy be if you were using a Tourney style take all comers list and had to face off against this?
 

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Bearded Ninja
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something big large and heavy dropped on them from a good distance would be prudent. having a gyrocopter on march blocking duty would also be ideal.

in combat you would look for a powerful rune weapon that doesn't strike last to do the dirty work. eliminating the vampire providing the WS would also be prudent.:?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Odviously getting rid of the Vamp would be very nice! But lucky and luck isn't that good to rely on. Also I think the vamp only has to be withing 12 inches if my understanding is correct. Meaning he doesn't even have to be in the unit and can sit back away from combat while this monster unit kills everything in contact.

Shooting them would be nice but I think they can be healed/brought back with the new VC spells so that may be a problem. I am not familiar yet with the VC spells so I don't know how affective this would be for the VC. If it's similar to the TK that could be a problem.

BTW I should add that the GG had Regen too. So flaming grudge throwers would would be nice! but I don't usually take one.
 

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If he's one of those sobs who hides behind the lines and supports though that could be difficult, unles you're the cannon sniping master. I'm assuming these were in 20 blocks? If so 2 bolt throwers for the penetrate ranks with the normal +1 st and engineer with rune of random to make it legal and a grudge thrower with the rune of acuracy should thin em out enough.
 

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Consumate professional
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Tie them up in combat with a big block of slayers and flank charge them with something equally hitty, all this after a few rounds of missile fire
 

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A dwarf lord with hammerers should be able to clobber a unit a Grave Guard. You are stubborn on a ten and immune to fear and terror (So you ain't auto running), so unless you get really unlucky, you're unit should never ever ever run. Hammerers with a Lord are almost as good as slayers in sticking around.

I assume (Dwarves being slow) that the GG charged. That'd be 6 attacks at strength 6 with killing blow (Here's a hint, rune of preservation on your lord) hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s. Most likely you're going to loose anyone able to attack back other then the lord and champion. Champoin hits on 4s and wounds on 2s. Likely killing one. You're dwarf lord should at least (At least) kill 3 (If he isn't, you didn't give him good runes. Or you made him an anti Character lord. If the seconed then fair enough. If the first, pick better runes.)

Now here is how it should boil down. You loose 5, he looses four. You both had 3 ranks (Hint run units of 20) at the beginning. You both have banners. Here's the kicker. You should outnumber and you should get a plus 1 resolution via runes of stoicism and battle. You win, one GG crumbles.

I cannot tell you how valuable those banners are. I cannot even begin. And on Hammerers or Iron breakers (If you're running both under 3000 points smack yourself and change one of them)

Now if the Vampire lord is with the Grave Guard, then there was little he could do. He still should of hurt the GG or the Vampire if there was a challenge. But in the end of that one, you'll probably loose. Vampire lords are horrendous in combat. They can be nastier then Dwarf Lords (Which is hard as hell to do). Though a dwarf lord can customize to be a character killer. For fighting a Vampire lord the best runes will be rune of cleaving, Rune of might, master Rune of smiting, 2 runes of stone, and a shield. You'll have 4 strength 10 hits that do d6 per wound and a 1+ save. This is the best anti character rune combination, and I assure you that you're dwarf lord will slaughter anything it gets to hit. It won't get to hit everything unfortuanately.
 

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Bearded Ninja
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A dwarf lord with hammerers should be able to clobber a unit a Grave Guard. You are stubborn on a ten and immune to fear and terror (So you ain't auto running), so unless you get really unlucky, you're unit should never ever ever run. Hammerers with a Lord are almost as good as slayers in sticking around.
not quite. remember its the unit that is stubborn, not the lord. hammerers are stubborn on a 9 but may use the generals leadership for panic tests or anything similar. not that stubborn 9 is any less effective, just stick a BSB nearby and your dandy ;Y

the only way for us to get stubborn 10 is through a master rune of kingship.
 

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My longbeards kicked the crap out of the graveguard. My technique is just to win resolution because then they crumble :) so have a unit of 20, a standard and a champion, works like a dream
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
My longbeards kicked the crap out of the graveguard. My technique is just to win resolution because then they crumble :) so have a unit of 20, a standard and a champion, works like a dream
How so? I just found out they hit on 2's (not threes). Don't forget they are str 6 with GW, are now raisable, and their combat can be enhanced by magic.

I tend to think your opponet didn't know what they were doing.

check out this discussion...
http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/vampire-counts/114584-grave-guard.html
 

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Most people don't spend that many points buffing up their GG.

But GG with Great weapons are gun fodder, they have no sheilds so thunderer punch right through their armor.

And a dwarf lord should be able to rack up several kills against them too.
 

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Blistering Barnacles!
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shoot the hell out of them or block them up with spammers.
 

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Just because I've been playing VC and thinking about Dwarves I'll chime in on how he's doing the GC. Staying away from copyrights, but he's using an item that can't be dispelled from a Vampire within 12" to trade WS (hitting you on 3s), then has a banner in the unit which gives him a +1 to hit (hitting you on 2s). If he has a cart within 6" he can go first and reroll all misses to hit. Best way I've found- snipe the vampire near him or the cart with some artillery. If he has any decent magic, he is going to replace fallen guys with casters faster than you can shoot the unit. If he's really sneaky, he can use another item to give all of his guys an additional attack AFTER they have already attacked. VC's whole strategy is supporting the units with Vampires, items and spells - makes them ridiculous in combat. Just my take . . ..
 

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Just because I've been playing VC and thinking about Dwarves I'll chime in on how he's doing the GC. Staying away from copyrights, but he's using an item that can't be dispelled from a Vampire within 12" to trade WS (hitting you on 3s), then has a banner in the unit which gives him a +1 to hit (hitting you on 2s). If he has a cart within 6" he can go first and reroll all misses to hit. Best way I've found- snipe the vampire near him or the cart with some artillery. If he has any decent magic, he is going to replace fallen guys with casters faster than you can shoot the unit. If he's really sneaky, he can use another item to give all of his guys an additional attack AFTER they have already attacked. VC's whole strategy is supporting the units with Vampires, items and spells - makes them ridiculous in combat. Just my take . . ..
He won't be replacing GG fast enough. GG are limited in their replacements.
 

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Thats not true, the average 2k VC list has at least 3 casters, all with IoN. IoN is a necromancy spell, which means it can be cast over and over again and on the same unit (page 38 of the VC army book). That means multiple +d6 GG per magic phase. He cant raise more than the initial number, but he can sure as heck keep those numbers up and running.

If your opponent is focusing on keeping the GG alive, it is very likely that the GG will stick around long enough to chew through anything you throw at them Unless you play a gunline and can conceivably destroy the entire unit in one turn). That is why you need to take out the elements that are supporting the GG first.
 

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Now here is how it should boil down. You loose 5, he looses four. You both had 3 ranks (Hint run units of 20) at the beginning. You both have banners. Here's the kicker. You should outnumber and you should get a plus 1 resolution via runes of stoicism and battle. You win, one GG crumbles.

quote]


If you're both running units of 20, and you lose five, he loses four, how are you outnumbering? (unless you mean 20 and THEN the 2 from the Lord on shield bearers)


But to my original idea, take that cool character with the anvil, you get 4 dispel dice stock from being dwarves, plus two from the lord, and one from the anvil... all with one Lord and one Hero choice! (7 total, remember anti magic is great for fighting Vampire Counts) Plus you can strike that rune that gives you another move and maybe catch him off guard, attacking first is never a bad idea! (no one ever expects to be charged by dwarves, he'll be stymied by his own charge outside of the movement phase tactic!)

P.S. if you're playing 2000 you won't get a fighty Lord with a build like this, but you can always put a Thane BSB in the unit with the war banner. Or if you want to shut down his magic phase (no, you CAN'T have more soldiers) have your BSB holding the Master Rune of Valaya.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Just because I've been playing VC and thinking about Dwarves I'll chime in on how he's doing the GC. Staying away from copyrights, but he's using an item that can't be dispelled from a Vampire within 12" to trade WS (hitting you on 3s), then has a banner in the unit which gives him a +1 to hit (hitting you on 2s). If he has a cart within 6" he can go first and reroll all misses to hit. Best way I've found- snipe the vampire near him or the cart with some artillery. If he has any decent magic, he is going to replace fallen guys with casters faster than you can shoot the unit. If he's really sneaky, he can use another item to give all of his guys an additional attack AFTER they have already attacked. VC's whole strategy is supporting the units with Vampires, items and spells - makes them ridiculous in combat. Just my take . . ..

I totally agree wit your take and it's my point. The new GG is a monster of a unit and will crush anything that comes into contact with it. Some armies could just avoid them I guess but even that would be hard as a good VC general can raise and direct your units, raise and pin units , or just flat out get them where they need to be.

Maybe it's just something people need to play against to understand it.
 

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But to my original idea, take that cool character with the anvil, you get 4 dispel dice stock from being dwarves, plus two from the lord, and one from the anvil... all with one Lord and one Hero choice! (7 total, remember anti magic is great for fighting Vampire Counts) Plus you can strike that rune that gives you another move and maybe catch him off guard, attacking first is never a bad idea! (no one ever expects to be charged by dwarves, he'll be stymied by his own charge outside of the movement phase tactic!)
Going anti-magic is a great tactic against VC, I think however, that even dwarves might have a problem with magic-heavy VC. With all the casters, easy to cast IoN's, and numerous bound spells they have access to, I still think that taking out the support with warmachines is your best bet.

Ive seen lists with a lord and 2 vampires, each with a bound spell, and then 2-3 corpse carts. This was at 2k and the guy still had plenty of points for his skeleton warriors, dire wolves, GG, and Black Knights. Thats 12 powerdice, and 5-6! bound spells (none of which you can really afford to ignore)

(P.S.: Gotta remember those runes of fire for when you want to take out those annoying corpse carts!)
 

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If you have thorek, using the offensive rune of wrath will defenantly take that squad out of commission. 2d6 S4 hits, and halves their movement, is pretty severe on 5+ Sv infantry. If you roll high it wouldnt be hard to strip 8 or so models from it. Throw in an organ gun or two, and you can butcher them down in about 2 turns of shooting.
 

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I didn't think GG got to raise d6. I thought they got less for IoN.

Anyways, the Rune of Stoicism means you cout double your unit strength, thus outnumbering.
 
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