[Jarl Bloodwolf]

Ok so i know that "Orks reproduce through the release of spores, which grow into a plant-like womb underground that nourishes the bodies of the various Orkoid species. Orks release spores through out their lives, but release them particularly at the moment of death. Without a nearby population of Orks, the fungus will eventually start the Ork life cycle anew".

I also know that "during a Tyranid invasion the Tyranids release clouds of microscopic Mycetic Spores which are used to blanket a planet during the latter days of a Tyranid planetary assimilation. These spores Accelerate plant growth, this helps in reclamation of organic materials in the soil".

My question is how would the Tyranids Myscetic spores affect the population of a planet that already has a fairly established Ork population? since orks are part fungal part animal and they grow and gestate in a similar way to a plant for me common sense says that the Tyranids Myscetic Spores would kick Ork population growth into overdrive eventually leading to a very good brawl between the bugs and da boyz.

anyone else have any ideas or comments?

 

[Torden]

The ork growth cycle is fast, but not as fast as the Tyranid. It really will come down to the numbers and tactics of each race, the winner having a huge jump in population. I was reading the tyranid book, and they mentioned a couple things such as if two tyranids fight, the outcome is a larger force with the strengths of both at almsot no loss of resources (bio-matter). If orks are overwhelmed, their genetic strengths and genetic knowledge would insanely boost tyranids if the nids were victorious.

 

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

but im not asking if this is a Nids vs Orks who would win. im asking what affect people think the Tyranid Mycetic Spores would have on the Orks? personally i think it would make them grow faster, in larger numbers and in larger size due to the fact that they are part fungus but thats just me. this isnt about who would win and who wouldent

 

[Torden]

but im not asking if this is a Nids vs Orks who would win. im asking what affect people think the Tyranid Mycetic Spores would have on the Orks? personally i think it would make them grow faster, in larger numbers and in larger size due to the fact that they are part fungus but thats just me. this isnt about who would win and who wouldent

Contrary to game rules, orks are supposed to be extremely resistant to poisons so I like the tyranid spores would either A) cause no change because orks spawn up fast where its a hive world or jungle world, or B) grow faster as you say due to their aggressive nature at a genetic level now competing with the tyranid spores
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but im not asking if this is a Nids vs Orks who would win. im asking what affect people think the Tyranid Mycetic Spores would have on the Orks? personally i think it would make them grow faster, in larger numbers and in larger size due to the fact that they are part fungus but thats just me. this isnt about who would win and who wouldent

Actually who would win has everything to do with it btw, the tyranid cycle requires that the tyranids win an invasion to start harvesting biomatter to produce more.

 

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

but then that brings up the question as to if the tyranid spores are a poison or stimulant? i dont think they are because that would make them counter productive as it would kill the flora of the planet. and the orks do not have a immune system per say but instead the fungus in their blood breaks down poisons but i think the spores would affect the orks in their gestation period.

also as far as to if its important that the orks or nids win i dont think it is. on Lexicanum.com )dont know if its like wikipedia and people can edit it) i came across a tyranid assimilation time line given below. in the timeline it says that the tyranid spores are released on day 00 but that the primary consumption dosent take place until day 51. this makes sense in that it would allow the spores to have their full affect and cause the local flora to grow as much as possible therefor insuring maximum biomass harvesting

Day 00: Initial mycetic spores are dropped, generally containing Lictors or Genestealers. Infiltration force led by a synapse creature of some kind; reproduction of Tyranid creatures likely begins immediately.

Day 09: By day 9, Tyranids will have expanded to around 200 km from the drop point, and will likely present a significant threat to planetary defence forces troopers and resident Imperial Guard.

Day 13: Tyranids will have expanded to 700 km from the drop point; may begin infesting local water sources.

Day 37: Tyranids control area within 2000 km radius of the drop point; basolithic infestation to 5000 km radius.

Day 48: Tyranid population growth skyrockets, with population doubling approximately every 2.5 days.

Day 50: Main Hive Fleet arrives, craft generally numbering around 1.5 billion. Psychic contact with planet is cut off by the shadow of the Hive Mind. Any attempts to escape are quickly stopped by the Hive Fleet.

Day 51: Primary consumption of bio-mass begins (resistance has generally been eliminated by day 51). Brood ships land, releasing Ripper swarms, which consume all remaining organic material and depositing them at the reclamation pools. Capillary towers (and the Brood ships) send the material into orbit.

Day 80: The hive ships descend into the upper atmosphere and begin collecting it. Reduction in atmospheric pressure causes oceans to boil away, which are also collected. Lack of oceans causes plate tectonic shifts, dramatically increasing volcanic activity. Upon completion, the Hive Fleet re-enters the Warp, in search of fresh prey.

 

[Lictor1989]

The way I see it is Tyranid spores change the environment to benefit them thus changing it at a genetic level. So the spores may or may not be strong enough to effect ork DNA. So in other words I don't really see Tyranid flora helping orks as nids usually engineer there stuff from planet to planet anyways. So they could possibly even slow down ork's breeding process instead.

 

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

with respect i dont think thats the case. i think that the spores are like the alien version of miracle grow and cause a planets flora to grow at an exponential rate. i dont believe that this alters the floras genetic make up or the DNA of the matter which is consumed. i dont think this is how it works due to the fact that the tyranids can rapidly evolve to suit combat in a certain environment or against a certain enemy and mostly this rapid evolution is possible by absorbing the genetic material of the subject. if the spores altered the DNA of the subject then the tyranids would not be recieving new genetic material.

 

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

also as another fasit of this topic what if the spores could mutate the orks (i dont think they could) and made tyranid enginered and controled orks? crab claws for power claws, scything talons for choppas? orks with gaunt like heads? scaley growths for eavy and mega armour? what about that to

 

[aounfather]

Interesting idea. If the spores accelerated the growth and size of the orks then the Nids would get a really cool genetic upgrade upon completion of the consumption of the planet. This would go well with the fluff that says that the tyranids and Orks became bigger and stronger while they were fighting in the worlds that Kryptman pointed them at. Although this was attributed to the fighting being strong and the orks getting bigger because of that.

Dont know about the genetically engineering orks with the spores idea. Genestealer cult orks anyone?

 

[TamCoan]

If you follow the fluff, the biovore is supposed to originate from orc DNA. In fact the smiling biovore looked like an orc in the face.

Additionally one of the past two nid codex, can't remember which one, details the tyranid infestation cycle. They state that the local vegetation and plant life is altered to better support the nid invasion with the plantlife and air itself becomes hostile to the native life forms. If anything I'd say the tyranid bioforming stage would assault the ork spores on a genetic level. In theory this could result in stronger orks as the ones who survive are the tougher specimines. However I don't think it would be a large population growth of orcs, more of a "weeding out of the weak".

 

[Willance]

To help in this interesting discussion i would direct you to the current codex. (Not that new one that is coming in January) That is the one that as TamCoan has said is what talks about the Tyranids changing the environment. Weather the Orks are altered by the spores is any ones guess. I have not seen evedance to support any theory other then the exelerating quality of the Spores.

I would like to point out that in the Current Codex it mentions that the best tactic that the Imperioun used was to divert a hive fleet into Ork Space where the two are still fighting. It is set up by the Fluff in the Tyranid Codes to be the perfect war with out end as the Orks will reproduce as fast as the Tyranids eat them.

In short, any speculation of the effect of Tyranid spores on the Ork life cycle are only speculation.

 

[Hussar]

I would like to point your attention to the Planetstrike book, on the part on the Octarian War.

"At a microscopic level, Tyranid phage cells fought to consume the aggressive expansions of Orkoid spores"

Meaning, they kill the spores.

Cheers ^^

 

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

but are the phage cells the same thing as the Mycetic Spores? i dont think so

deffinitions

phage: a virus that is parasitic (reproduces itself) in bacteria; "phage uses the bacterium's machinery and energy to produce more phage

Mycetic Spores:
Accelerate plant growth. This helps in reclamation of organic materials in the soil.
Poison plant and animal life, making it useless as a food source. This weakens resistance.
Breaks down cells to help in digestion by the Hive Fleet.

 

[Hussar]

I really think they use them both, to be honest...

The breakdown of normal bacterial flora will most probably be something important for the Tyranids as they invade, seeing as it might be harmfull for them.

 

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

well yea they do use them bolth but moonblade/smell barrel made them sound like they were the same thing. im just pointing out that they arnt and that we arnt really talking about phage cells were talking about the mycetic spores. i apologise if it seemed like i was attacking anyone

 

[Hussar]

My point is that there wouldn't be any Orkoid-spores alive, or whole enough for the Mycetic spores to have any effect. But phage-cells and phage-viruses are not the same thing. The phage-cells must be some kind of cells feeding on (now) the spores and all other kinds of biological matter.

I don't know if GW thought this through properly, seeing as theese phage-cells and mycetic spores would simply work against eachother. One trying to eat everytyhing and the other trying to change its biological.code. But who knows, maybe they work together with the Hive Mind and in some way only attack specific things? If that is the case I do believe Orkoid-spores would be high up on the destroy list, to keep resistance down.

But I guess your point doesn't really have anything to do with the two working in the same area, the question in itself is that IF there were only Orkoid-spores and Mycetic Spores around, what would happen?
Here's where the problem arises, they're both spores. This means that they are something that WILL grow, a seed so to speak. The Mycetic spores I might guess work by attaching themselves to normal fauna and then start growing ON them, pumping in different enzymes or simply ready made plasmides or strands of DNA that will change it's biological structure. I do not think that theese spores, will attach to other spores (meaning, Orkoid-spores). And were they'd have any kind of effect would be on the "cocoons" in which the Orks grow in, once the Orkoid-spores have settled and had time to grow. Meaning theese Mycetic Spores would have to make it underground to, or into whatever creavice it is they grow in. Not a very illogal assumption, altough. But once they got there, maybe they would have some effect. I couldn't imagine them turning Tyranoid's, really. But some form of more feral ork would most probably derive from it.

Theese are my assumptions, at least ^^

Cheers ^^

 

[Leech]

but are the phage cells the same thing as the Mycetic Spores

Mycetic spores are the Tyranid version of a drop pod. The Tyranids use them to land on the planet. The phage cells aren't like normal phages. They are like tiny Tyranid workers inside the body of each Tyranid, the same way Tyranids are workers in their hive, or in the bioship they are spawned in.

Tyranid spores probably wouldn't cause the Orks to reproduce like mad. Plants, fungi etc will explode in growth after the Tyranids have mutated them. Often the huge numbers of plants about have already been absorbed in the Hive fleet and what is seen are their mutated, Tyranid-infected versions. Also what is often seen as an explosion of local plant-life isn't. It is Tyranid life only it's in plant-form.

If Tyranid spores were to speed up Ork reproduction then they would have a very strong effect on any Orks produced, such as hybrids forms or some sort of slave-race to be consumed. There are plenty of descriptions of humans becoming very ill because of the spores Tyranids release. Orks could become ill too but they are tougher and so less likely to get ill.

 

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

thanks for the replies. im glad i made this post its interesting to hear everyones opinion and discuss it all. its almost scientific lol the magos biologists would be proud

 

[Leech]

thanks for the replies. im glad i made this post its interesting to hear everyones opinion and discuss it all. its almost scientific lol the magos biologists would be proud

Glad we could help, though I suspect the Magos biologis would probably have us all terminated for knowing too much about foul aliens.:secret:

 

[Jarl Bloodwolf]

to leech: if i can ask where did you get your information?