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Well, playing in a Rouge trader tournament the other day and came upon an interesting situation as it may seem to me.

I was playing a nid player, and i was eldar. He charged my howling banshees with his genestealers, while my banshees had acrobat (counter assault). So i told him to hold it, and moved my units to combat (as said in the rules), but it also states that Counter assault is an assault move, just not getting the +1 attacks for assaulting back.

My opponent and I were wondering, Does the banshee mask due its worst in this situations, striking at initiative 10? or would we go by initiative order?
 

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Sparta!
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The banshee mask works in the first round of combat, regardless of who actually charged. So, if banshees get charged they still get I10.
Remember this applies for the first round of combat for the banshees. If the banshees are already in combat and then get charged by another unit you work it out as normal (i.e. Inititative values).
 

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The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss
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Hmm. I just wonder about that. The reason I'm doubting is that the situation reminded me about the Space Wolf "Stormcaller" power being cast on a SW unit which is assaulting/assaulted. Stormcaller is effective against the unit the SW assaulted in their turn, and is still in effect until the start of the next SW turn. The SW unit will fight in standard Initiative order against the original enemy unit in the following Enemy's turn, but should a second enemy unit also assault them in this same turn, then Stormcaller affects the new enemy unit and the SW will strike first against them if the SW player decides to attack the new enemy unit with some of his troops.

Sorry, that might have been a little confusingly put! I'm just wondering if the Banshee Mask would still operate against the new assaulting unit since that unit is initiating a new combat.

E.
 

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Charitably Tables People
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They are not initiating a new combat, they are assaulting into an existing combat. It is only new for them. It simply gets worse (in the case of genestealers joining at least) for the shees ;)
 

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Dark Eldar Zealot
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Well, playing in a Rouge trader tournament the other day and came upon an interesting situation as it may seem to me.

I was playing a nid player, and i was eldar. He charged my howling banshees with his genestealers, while my banshees had acrobat (counter assault). So i told him to hold it, and moved my units to combat (as said in the rules), but it also states that Counter assault is an assault move, just not getting the +1 attacks for assaulting back.

My opponent and I were wondering, Does the banshee mask due its worst in this situations, striking at initiative 10? or would we go by initiative order?
Hi,
Banshee mask wearers do not refer to the initiative values of 1 to 10 mentioned in the BGB but simply “Always Strike first.” (Regardless of any other factors.)

That is to say that Banshees are NOT Initiative 10 and this becomes more apparent when you pit an ”Initiative 10” model against another with “Always Strike first.” The ASF model will win every time.

The mask obviously only has its effect lasting for the first round of combat.

Cheers.
 

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Sparta!
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Hi,
Banshee mask wearers do not refer to the initiative values of 1 to 10 mentioned in the BGB but simply “Always Strike first.” (Regardless of any other factors.)

That is to say that Banshees are NOT Initiative 10 and this becomes more apparent when you pit an ”Initiative 10” model against another with “Always Strike first.” The ASF model will win every time.

The mask obviously only has its effect lasting for the first round of combat.

Cheers.
Where are you getting this from wicky?
As per the entry for banshee masks in the Eldar Codex:
"In the first round of assault a model wearing a Banshee mask has iniative 10 and negates any iniative bonus conferred by cover and grenades"

Therefore Banshees always strike at I10 in the first round of assault, whether they charge or get charged.
 

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Dark Eldar Zealot
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Where are you getting this from wicky?
As per the entry for banshee masks in the Eldar Codex:
"In the first round of assault a model wearing a Banshee mask has iniative 10 and negates any iniative bonus conferred by cover and grenades"

Therefore Banshees always strike at I10 in the first round of assault, whether they charge or get charged.
The Wargear Book, don't tell me that the Codex goes on to say something different?

Fair enough, if it does, you got me then.

But it becomes even more a can of worms when older Codex's have an ASF that can be used against the I10 Banshees to advantage.

So my Wych with the drug ASF used to be simultaneously with the Banshee and now its not?

Now I am confused! (No wonder this is addressed in 5th Ed.)

P.S. I stil stand by the claim that ASF is a level above init. 10.
 

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Sparta!
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How old is the wargear book? Last edition Eldar had the banshee mask as ASF, but now it's I10.
ASF is ASF, not I10. So in the case of your wyches, yes they would strike before the I10 Banshees.
 

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Dark Eldar Zealot
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How old is the wargear book? Last edition Eldar had the banshee mask as ASF, but now it's I10.
ASF is ASF, not I10. So in the case of your wyches, yes they would strike before the I10 Banshees.
Its 2005, so I think that the new and improved Banshees got shafted!

Good pickup Mate.
 

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Yeah, the new banshees got kicked in the teeth again (along with their lose of s7 power weapons, but lets not go there).

As stated, the banshees get init 10, ignoring cover and grenades, on the first round of their combat. Whether they initate it or not.

And yes, wyches now are the only models that still ASF, IIRC.
 

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Advocatus Diaboli
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Yeah, the new banshees got kicked in the teeth again (along with their lose of s7 power weapons, but lets not go there).
The only S7 power weapon I remember from the old codex was Maugan Ra's Maugetar...
 

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They were S7 in 2nd ed. -4 to save IIRC. And the "power weapon" just differentiated them from normal swords, which could also be taken (but not on banshee standard models).
 

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Advocatus Diaboli
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They were S7 in 2nd ed. -4 to save IIRC. And the "power weapon" just differentiated them from normal swords, which could also be taken (but not on banshee standard models).
Ahh...you're going that far back. Well, let's be fair...everything was silly back then. Banshees didn't need much help thanks to their M6, banshee masks and half their hits resolved at S5, -3 save.
 

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Suffer not the Unclean
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Of course S7 or whatever they were power swords (mind you it's a sword, power axes had a different profile...) were somewhat tempered by the fact that I could also shoot you in the face with my plasma pistol in a close combat... Not to mention that if you were using it on a Marine hero, he was probably also T7 anyway =). Oh for my WS9 BS9 S6 T6 inquisitors of old.. And T4 Battle Sisters!
 
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