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So my question is concerning what HQ's you take and more importantly how you deck them out. Currently I run a Warboss on foot w/cybork, heavy armor, power klaw, boss pole and combi scorcha. He is in a unit of 19 choppa boys in a battle wagon. Then I run a Big Mek w/ KFF.

I ask this question because recently my friend as been taking advantage of the Independent Character rule and being able to allocate wounds against him with unit champions and I can't strike it back. Example last game against his chaos he charges the unit w/Warboss. and over 2 rounds of combat his 40pt Champ w/power fist takes down my 110pt Warboss. And i can't take it out because its not an IC.

So basically I'm wondering if there is a way to make my boss not die in turn one/two. Or Should i just get another mek or something? Oh and the other thing about it to, is how ridiculous he gets when he kills my boss. A guy was watching and my friend said "yeah if I kill the warboss its like a win in its own right". Really? last time I checked an ork Warboss, although really good, wasn't the best and most bad ass HQ choice out there. Thats why it cost like 60pts base and a space marine costs 100pts.

Any help/tips on using my current boss or how i could change it would be appreciated.

Oh yeah. WAAGH.
 

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Wow what are the IC rules that allow this to happen?

I personally have had so much trouble with orks in combat against marines and eldar. Recently lost a 26 model Ork unit on a charge against a striking scorpion unit. It was a desperate move that didn't work.

I have two suggestions,
1/ Don't run the warboss.
2/ Use the warboss in a trukk and target non infantry units cos that S10 PK is lethal to armor
3/ Put him on a Warbike!

I have never used warbosses on foot. Was always worried about this happening. My footslogger list has 1 big mek.
my balanced list uses a bikerboss with nobs and painboy
 

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Your friend is doing it wrong, that's what he's doing. Unless I'm mistaken, the unit champion is like a Nob or Sergeant, and as such -must- be put in BSB contact with your warboss if they are both in the same melee together. Both of you can elect to put your attacks on various different models as long as your model is in BSB contact with the elected models. So yes, his unit champion can target your Warboss, but your Warboss can also target his unit champion. Nor does he have to put all his attacks onto the unit champion, he can put 2 on the champion and 2 on two other models within BSB contact of your Warboss. Just because the unit champion isn't an IC doesn't mean you can't target him, the way melee works now is that the "characters" of both units have to try their hardest to duke it out with their counterpart. If anyone else has the rulebook on hand please clarify this, because I'm not entirely sure I've got everything correct.
 

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Independant characters are treated as a separate unit for fighting in hand to hand combat. So any models in base to base or withing 2 inches of a model in base to base with an IC can allocate their attacks onto an IC in hand to hand. This only applies to IC and not to Nobs or Champions etc.

You basically gotta charge a unit with another of your units and then tie them up in combat and charge with the warboss and his unit second so you can choose placement of your warboss. Or have your warboss leave the unit and charge second/let the boyz take the charge from Chaos.

A warboss on a bike or in a vehicle can be more assured of getting the charge as well. That might be a possible solution to this kind of problem. Especially since that 4+ save is a cover save. but over all....just use those same tactics and do not bank on your boss.

Or else do not put a TON of stock into your warboss. He is a target just like any general and so he will be targeted as many was as possible. I think that GW follows this idea about making armies...
"Why make un killable characters if you do not have to kill them to win"
 

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Yep, this be true, I just assumed that as the unit champion he could be targeted as well, but it turns out he can't. You are required to put the warboss at the forefront of the assault however, but there is no rule as to where at the forefront you must place him. My suggestion is try to place him outside the Unit Champion's 2" field of attack, so the UC can't target him.
 

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"Why make un killable characters if you do not have to kill them to win"
Because, in the case of the Warboss, you can also make him highly mobile, powerful, and force your opponent to deal with him.

As has been said, you and your friend are not using the IC rules correctly (which is good for you, in this case). As far as good HQ load-outs though, my favorite tends to be a Warboss riding a Bike with a PK, Cybork, and an Attack Squig. This makes him T6 with 5 base attacks, 4+ save, 4+ cover, 5+ inv, and an 18" potential charge range (also the 24" turbo boost option is very useful). He's great with a squad of biker Nobz, but even on his own he can menace enemy heavy weapons teams and troops, tear up Monstrous Creatures, and destroy enemy armor (even the biggies like Land Raiders).
 

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As has been said, you and your friend are not using the IC rules correctly (which is good for you, in this case).
actually...they are playing the rules correctly. So my questions still stands....what character will you build that can withstand two rounds of unanswerable powerfist hits?
 

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Regardless of whether the unit champion can target the IC in CC, he can't specifically target your Warboss if your Warboss is 2" or more away from the unit champion model. Personally I feel the way your opponent is playing is a little beardy, and not really in the spirit of the game (mighty heroes fighting against each other, not one mighty hero fighting against a glorified unit sergeant), so you have to exploit the rules as well.
 

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I am a spirit of the game person but I see how this is in the spirit of the game. If I had the chance to kill the leader of an army I would be going after him 100%.

That being said I have been doing some thinking on this issue and here is my new idea about it.

Take Big Choppas...this will allow your warboss and unit to get hits in BEFORE the champion with Powerfitst and possibly kill them all before they get a hit. Otherwise your characters are very vulnerable.
 

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Am I right in saying that you wouldn't even need to give everyone in the unit Big Choppas? Just make sure the ones that do have BCs are only within 2" of the unit champion, nothing else. That way, because he is the only one within their "reach", your opponent can only remove that model. Of course you waste about 4-8 attacks on one model, but then your Warboss won't die.
 

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in 1-2 rounds, a Warboss and 19 sluggas (with a pk nob) should KILL ALL THE CHAOS MARINES IN THE SQUAD INCLUDING THE POWERFIST. So you shouldnt really have an issue.
 

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Am I right in saying that you wouldn't even need to give everyone in the unit Big Choppas? Just make sure the ones that do have BCs are only within 2" of the unit champion, nothing else. That way, because he is the only one within their "reach", your opponent can only remove that model. Of course you waste about 4-8 attacks on one model, but then your Warboss won't die.
The way the rules are written it basically says that you allocate wounds to the unit.It is represented as a large melee and so unit placement for non ICs is relatively unimportant. With the exception of making sure they attack. Basically the unit champion would be able to either a) attack the unit (as he cannot decide to target one model in a unit or b) if he is in base to base contact or within 2" of a model in base to base contact with an IC, attack the IC.

These rules really make CC HQ selections very vulnerable where in the past they were sort of able to hide out in units and just murder the opposition.

These guys do a very good job in general but also have this in reference specifically to what we are talking about.

YouTube - BeastsOfWar's Channel
 

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in 1-2 rounds, a Warboss and 19 sluggas (with a pk nob) should KILL ALL THE CHAOS MARINES IN THE SQUAD INCLUDING THE POWERFIST. So you shouldnt really have an issue.
"Should" obviously doesnt happen all the time. For anybody. At any rate if the choas unit charges and is able to allocate many attacks on your warboss he could die in the first round if he is using a PK.
 
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