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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was wondering: if humanity did become the race of super psykers envisioned by the old ones, how would it affect the 40K universe?

Assuming the entire human race were psykers of comparable power ot the emperor I reckon that they would wipe out all their enemies, especially the necrons but the main thing i was thinking is: how would it affect chaos?

Would the chaos gods be destroyed by that much psychic might arrayed against them? become stronger? or worst case scenario would a new god be born from the collected psychic power of humanity ala the Eldar Fall?

Just some random thoughts. Any opinions?
 

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Slave to the flesh
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Chaos would have a harder time possessing people as everyone would have supreme mental control, of course, if it weren't for the old ones the warp entities such as the chaos gods wouldn't exist, but thats not here nor there.

Humanity would easily defeat the necrons, the psychic powers would stop the c'tan in their tracks.

I don't think there would be a fall like the eldar as the 'evolution' into these uber psykers would be slower than the eldar one, thus resulting in a far better control of emotions and their relation to the warp.
 

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Son of LO
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It depends.. there have been psykers of incredible power throughout the Imperium's history. Alpha level psykers have apparently been known to perform such feats as snapping titans in half, and driving entire armies insane.

What made the Emperor different was not just power, but his immunity to the influence of chaos. There are a number of fluff theories about this.. The old theory, which ties in with the sensei, is that there are both positive and negative energies in the warp, and the emperor only tapped into the 'good' energies. I hate this theory myself, and in any case, like all the sensei fluff, it has now been thrown in the bin (though never directly dismissed.)

I think the Emperor had reached a state of emotionlessness (some would say inner peace) which meant that the chaos gods could not understand or influence his mind. Chaos gods are created and feed from emotion.. If the Emperor lacked these emotions, or had subdued them, chaos would have no place to grow and take root in his mind.

It is why faith remains such a powerful weapon against chaos.

So yes, I think it's possible for humanity to conquer chaos.. I think that was the Emperor's plan. But it's not just power, it's something else as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I always assumed that the Emperor was equal in power to at least one chaos god (maybe several together) which was why they couldn't affect him.
 

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Son of LO
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I am the Monkey King said:
I always assumed that the Emperor was equal in power to at least one chaos god (maybe several together) which was why they couldn't affect him.
Possibly all 4..

The Emperor defeated Horus when he was directly possessed by all four of the chaos gods. Says a lot about power levels, though perhaps being confined within a demi-mortal shell meant that the chaos gods were unable to use their full power.

Anyway, at the end, they had to withdraw from his body to prevent themselves being destroyed, giving rise to perhaps one of the most horrible 'hey.. what am I doing here?' moments in history. ;)
 

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LO's unofficial Jester
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I thought the Emperor actually defeated Horus by revealing to the last vestige of humanity in him the extent of the suffereing he had caused. It was Horus who then freed himself of the deamonic possession but the emperor knowing he could be tainted again destroyed him once and for all. Well that was the version I read anyway.

Still makes the Emperor a powerrful psyker but I think he was more subtle than merely being powerful enough to take on the four chaos Gods.
 

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Remember, the Chaos Gods aren't that powerful(Look at the fact of the Emperor almost destroying the four of them).

I agree on Emperor being on the same level with at least a single Chaos God.
 

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I Endure
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I think I read something once about humans, and indeed the Eldar, feeding the gods with their emotions because their psyches are flawed. The Emperor is the only being to fulfill his pyschic potential, and as such does not power the gods. The gist of the piece was that he was attempting to help humanity reach its ultimate potential, where there is no turmoil in the mind, and so no fuel for the gods.

I can't remember where or when I read this, so it could discredited, or just plain babble.
 

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Son of LO
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TehDarkPredator said:
Remember, the Chaos Gods aren't that powerful(Look at the fact of the Emperor almost destroying the four of them).
Try telling that to a being so vast and expansive the dimensions of the physical world are incapable of accomodating it.

The chaos gods are almost omnipotent.. in their world. It's only in the physical world that they're very, very limited.
 

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That's like being master of your own mind ^_^
Which is (sorry) sensei stuff :p
 

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Too Sexy For My Whirlwind
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The chaos gods are almost omnipotent.. in their world. It's only in the physical world that they're very, very limited.
Problem is the Emperor is almost Omnipotent in their world as well...and also powerful on the material plane.
 

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Son of LO
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Sabe said:
Problem is the Emperor is almost Omnipotent in their world as well...and also powerful on the material plane.
Then why didn't he kill them in their world?

Being able to manipulate the warp does not equal omnipotence.. The Emperor was a powerful psyker, and, because of some quality he possessed, the chaos gods couldn't touch him. Doesn't mean he could destroy them, except, it's implied, at that one point when they all possessed Horus and came into the physical world.

The Emperor is therefore not omnipotent in the warp..
 

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Even the Chaos Gods aren't omnipotent in the Warp. The Emperor has the power and knows how to destroy the Chaos Gods but he's too weak and they're too strong right now. That's part of the prophecy and goal with the Numen.
 

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Son of LO
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The Imperator Numen said:
Even the Chaos Gods aren't omnipotent in the Warp. The Emperor has the power and knows how to destroy the Chaos Gods but he's too weak and they're too strong right now. That's part of the prophecy and goal with the Numen.
Which is old fluff, and has been kicked out.. as far as I'm aware.

The cult of the star child was listed somewhere as having been excommunicated and purged.

I'm not doubting the Emperor knew how to kill the chaos gods, but I don't think he was just planning on using his awesome ubah powerz and smacking them down in the warp. I think he had a much more coherent plan that just getting in a big scrap with the chaos gods. Otherwise why not just shoot himself in the face back when he was non-braindead and get it over with. Why wait 10,000 years?

Has anyone else noticed that chaos gods never actually act for themselves, except for that one moment during the Horus Heresy. Heck, they've never even communicated to anyone save possibly the Primachs and the Emperor, it's all done by daemonic intermediaries. This suggests to me that they're not just really big daemons, they're something a bit more abstract. Hence, the idea of someone going into the warp and killing them seems a bit off to me. Ideas about how powerful they are also don't really work, because they never actually act. I don't think they're capable of acting in any sense we would consider it.
 

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The Imperator Numen said:
Even the Chaos Gods aren't omnipotent in the Warp. The Emperor has the power and knows how to destroy the Chaos Gods but he's too weak and they're too strong right now. That's part of the prophecy and goal with the Numen.
you can't destroy the Chaos Gods, they're refections of the emotions etc of the human race and other sentient species, you can't destroy them without destroying humanity, you can only hope to master mankinds darker side (Horusian)
 

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Too Sexy For My Whirlwind
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Has anyone else noticed that chaos gods never actually act for themselves, except for that one moment during the Horus Heresy. Heck, they've never even communicated to anyone save possibly the Primachs and the Emperor, it's all done by daemonic intermediaries. This suggests to me that they're not just really big daemons, they're something a bit more abstract. Hence, the idea of someone going into the warp and killing them seems a bit off to me. Ideas about how powerful they are also don't really work, because they never actually act. I don't think they're capable of acting in any sense we would consider it.
Many of the worlds most powerful/rich people are completely incognito to the public, not because they aren't actually human, simply because they don't desire unneccesary exposure. This is the same with the chaos gods, and in fact proves that they can indeed be dissipated. Why expose yourself and risk harm to yourself, regardless of how minute the chances, when you have millions of minions to do it for you.

you can't destroy the Chaos Gods, they're refections of the emotions etc of the human race and other sentient species, you can't destroy them without destroying humanity, you can only hope to master mankinds darker side (Horusian)
The chaos gods wern't always around you know. Humanities emotions echo in the warp regardless of their prescesnce. They can be destroyed, or dissipated if you will. It wouldn't do jack to humanity, except free them from the subtle pushes that the chaos gods are always inflicting upon them. The chaos gods are the result of certain emotions being over-expressed in the warp and then coalating and fusing into one self concious personality. Should that personality be ruptured their really isn't any adverse effects for the people who's thoughts created it, their thoughts and emotions just go spinning off into the warp like they always have. You can't destroy humanity without destroying the chaos gods, but destroying the chaos gods doesn't do much to humanity,as they are the product and not the producer.
 

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Son of LO
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Sabe said:
The chaos gods wern't always around you know. Humanities emotions echo in the warp regardless of their prescesnce. They can be destroyed, or dissipated if you will. It wouldn't do jack to humanity, except free them from the subtle pushes that the chaos gods are always inflicting upon them. The chaos gods are the result of certain emotions being over-expressed in the warp and then coalating and fusing into one self concious personality. Should that personality be ruptured their really isn't any adverse effects for the people who's thoughts created it, their thoughts and emotions just go spinning off into the warp like they always have. You can't destroy humanity without destroying the chaos gods, but destroying the chaos gods doesn't do much to humanity,as they are the product and not the producer.
Sadly.. we're just butting heads with two theories which we can't proove.. Because GW has never given us a definitive answer. You're just guessing that the chaos gods are like really big daemons, and I'm just guessing that they're not.

I'd suggest agreeing to disagree.
 

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We must make a distinction between power and strength of will. An alpha psyker can wield enough power to snap titans and still have the emotive stability of a low self-esteem child.
An inquisitor, or SM librarian could have only a fraction of the alpha's power and still be enough strong willed to keep the chaos gods out of their minds without the emperor's binding. So the emperor is not the only one immune to the chaos influence, any psyker potentially can free himself of the most superficial toughts (of which the chaos gods feed) and find consciousness of his\her true will. Maybe such psykers, like the emperor, reach an higher level of the warp, where chaos can't touch them and they can't touch chaos. Until they meet in the material world.
 
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