[Dawnrunner]

Hey guys, sorry if there've been threads similar to this one before, but I haven't been able to find them.
I'm gradually assembling a 1000pt Witchhunters force and I was thinking about upgrading my Inquisitor's Rhino transport with a hunter/killer missile. Since I know it's more typical for Guard players to use the missile, I'd like to ask: is it worth it?

 

[slobulous]

It is not worth the points. It's just a single shot krak missile. 1 out of 3 times, the missile will miss and be a complete waste. The other 2 times, it will hit but probably won't do much damage. Since 5th Ed.'s dramatic increase in the cost of Extra Armor, I have stopped taking any vehicle upgrades at all (except maybe sponsons).

 

[Intrepid]

Hunter-Killers are interesting if you hold off on firing them until you get a side/rear shot opportunity. Since they also count as an additional weapon system, their presence will keep your Rhino alive longer than it otherwise might. That isn't bad for the cost but neither is it very good.

In offensive use, you need to use a full volley of HKs before you can count on them actually doing something. It's increasingly effective since so many players use fully-mechanized lists with no safety equipment (extra armor, etc.) but it's tempting to simply bring another unit for the same cost.

 

[SandWyrm]

Hunter-Killers are interesting if you hold off on firing them until you get a side/rear shot opportunity. Since they also count as an additional weapon system, their presence will keep your Rhino alive longer than it otherwise might. That isn't bad for the cost but neither is it very good.

FYI: A single extra weapon reduces your likelihood of your rhino being destoyed by about 1%. Having more than 2 weapons has almost no effect at all.

 

[cKerensky]

To give an idea to the OP, there are only three instances where I'll take a Hunter Killer:

One, on a Pask equipped tank. BS4, and he'll make it a S8+1 shot.
Two, mass missiles: Every vehicle I have takes one, only if I'm going up against Eldar, and then, only in Apocalypse, simply because of their infinite range.
Three: I'm drunk. Seriously.

They just arent that useful, unfortunately. If I have the points left over, I MIGHT try and put a HK somewhere, but only if all my infantry squads have their Autocannons, which cost the same, and are far, far more likely to kill what they're shooting at (especially since most of th etime, its at BS 4)

 

[YounGunner]

LOL

Three: I'm drunk. Seriously.

Being drunk is no excuse to use hunter killer missiles.

 

[kevin vanrooyen]

HKMs have one use, scout sentinels. Sentinels have an average BS, and crap armour. So when they outflank they have usually have 1-2 turns of shooting. A missile launcher sentinel can double its chances of doing something by grabbing an HKM, they allso work well on autocannon and lascannon equipped sentinels.

The Emperor Protects

 

[rafis117]

LOL

Being drunk is no excuse to use hunter killer missiles.

But being drunk, playing apocalypse, and serving the Emprah are together an excuse for anything!

 

[stayscrunchyinmilk]

Hey guys, sorry if there've been threads similar to this one before, but I haven't been able to find them.
I'm gradually assembling a 1000pt Witchhunters force and I was thinking about upgrading my Inquisitor's Rhino transport with a hunter/killer missile. Since I know it's more typical for Guard players to use the missile, I'd like to ask: is it worth it?

No.
Not unless you're playing apocalypse and the unlimited range brings a smile to your face (Die turned around by callidus assassain Super heavy! Die by buckets of Str 8 Dice! mwahaahaahaaa)

 

[winginson]

I played an apocalyspe where all the IG banded together and brought as many HKs possible for 5000 points. Which was 111 scout sentinals with HKs. Which was so damn funny.

 

[rafis117]

i played an apocalyspe where all the ig banded together and brought as many hks possible for 5000 points. Which was 111 scout sentinals with hks. Which was so damn funny.

o.o

 

[Caros]

Just as an addition to the above mention of pask. The imperial guard armory specifies the BS that an HK is fired at, so I don't believe it benefits from his improved ballistics, sadly.

 

[YounGunner]

I wouldn't even put one on an autocannon equipped sentinel. Doing so sounds good in theory but for the same price increase that sentinel could upgrade to a lascannon.

 

[SandWyrm]

I wouldn't even put one on an autocannon equipped sentinel. Doing so sounds good in theory but for the same price increase that sentinel could upgrade to a lascannon.

Except that autocannons >= lascannons. So the extra shot would make some sense. No, the real problem is that in a squad of 3 that 30 pts. could be better spent on an astropath or fleet officer.

 

[YounGunner]

Except that autocannons >= lascannons.

Unless you are shooting at AR 14 or something with a 2+ save :j I like autocannons very much, more than lascannons, mostly because they are cheaper. The mathhammer guys might have figured out that the autocannon works better on ar 12 but sometimes it just feels good rolling with that extra 2 strength.

So the extra shot would make some sense. No, the real problem is that in a squad of 3 that 30 pts. could be better spent on an astropath or fleet officer.

The astropath does rule. I couldn't agree more about bringing him instead of HK missiles or lascannons. I haven't figured out how I'm going to build one yet.

 

[SandWyrm]

sometimes it just feels good rolling with that extra 2 strength.

Except when you miss because you've only got 3 BS3 shots.

Here's the mathhammer results for those that are interested. These numbers were derived using a custom simulation program I wrote. The sample size is 100,000 attack rolls, which keeps the luck variation under 1%. Simulation is more accurate than raw formulas, as I can more easily account for things like stacked weapon destroyed or immobilized results that lead to other outcomes.


3 Autocannon Sentinels vs. Chimera (Side/Rear) - AV10
Stopped Target Movement: 76% (Stunned, Immobilized, Wrecked, or Explosion)
Stopped Target Firing: 87% (Shaken, Stunned, Weapon Destoyed, Wrecked, or Explosion)
Destroyed Target: 44% (Wrecked or Explosion)
Did Nothing to Target: 9%

3 Autocannon Sentinels vs. Rhino (Front/Side) - AV11
Stopped Target Movement: 64%
Stopped Target Firing: 76%
Destroyed Target: 31%
Did Nothing to Target: 18%

3 Autocannon Sentinels vs. Chimera (Front) - AV12
Stopped Target Movement: 46%
Stopped Target Firing: 60%
Destroyed Target: 17%
Did Nothing to Target: 33%

3 Lascannon Sentinels vs. Chimera (Side/Rear) - AV10
Stopped Target Movement: 69%
Stopped Target Firing: 81%
Destroyed Target: 38%
Did Nothing to Target: 13%

3 Lascannon Sentinels vs. Rhino (Front/Side) - AV11
Stopped Target Movement: 61%
Stopped Target Firing: 73%
Destroyed Target: 31%
Did Nothing to Target: 20%

3 Lascannon Sentinels vs. Chimera (Front) - AV12
Stopped Target Movement: 50%
Stopped Target Firing: 63%
Destroyed Target: 24%
Did Nothing to Target: 30%

 

[YounGunner]

That's pretty cool. What do the AR 13 and 14 tables look like? (ar14 for the lascannon)

I do prefer autocannons on sentinels. This is a good illustration from what the matthammer guys have told me and what I've experienced playing. They are 10 points cheaper for about the same effectiveness vs the kinds of armor you try to focus them on.

 

[SandWyrm]

That's pretty cool. What do the AR 13 and 14 tables look like? (ar14 for the lascannon)

Ask and ye shall recieve...

3 Autocannon Sentinels vs. Russ (Side) - AV13
Stopped Target Movement: 23%
Stopped Target Firing: 35%
Destroyed Target: 0%
Did Nothing to Target: 59%

3 Lascannon Sentinels vs. Russ (Side) - AV13
Stopped Target Movement: 39%
Stopped Target Firing: 51%
Destroyed Target: 16%
Did Nothing to Target: 42%

3 Lascannon Sentinels vs. Russ (Front) - AV14
Stopped Target Movement: 26%
Stopped Target Firing: 36%
Destroyed Target: 8%
Did Nothing to Target: 58%


And just to show why Melta rules...

3 Vet Meltas vs. Russ (Rear) - AV10
Stopped Target Movement: 91%
Stopped Target Firing: 93%
Destroyed Target: 72%
Did Nothing to Target: 4%

3 Vet Meltas vs. Russ (Side) - AV13
Stopped Target Movement: 84%
Stopped Target Firing: 86%
Destroyed Target: 60%
Did Nothing to Target: 9%"

3 Vet Meltas vs. Russ (Front) - AV14
Stopped Target Movement: 77%
Stopped Target Firing: 80%
Destroyed Target: 52%
Did Nothing to Target: 14%

 

[YounGunner]

Very educational. Rep you very much.

I think it's obvious but just to clarify, the melta tables are from 2D6 range correct?

 

[SandWyrm]

And to get back to topic, and prove why you don't want to use missile launchers on Sentinels or HWTs...

3 Krak Missiles Vs. Chimera (Side) - AV10
Stopped Target Movement: 60%
Stopped Target Firing: 73%
Destroyed Target: 31%
Did Nothing to Target: 20%

3 Krak Missiles Vs. Rhino - AV11
Stopped Target Movement: 51%
Stopped Target Firing: 63%
Destroyed Target: 24%
Did Nothing to Target: 30%

3 Krak Missiles Vs. Chimera (Front) - AV12
Stopped Target Movement: 39%
Stopped Target Firing: 50%
Destroyed Target: 16%
Did Nothing to Target: 42%

3 Krak Missiles Vs. Russ (Side) - AV13
Stopped Target Movement: 26%
Stopped Target Firing: 36%
Destroyed Target: 8%
Did Nothing to Target: 58%

3 Krak Missiles Vs. Russ (Front) - AV14
Stopped Target Movement: 12%
Stopped Target Firing: 19%
Destroyed Target: 0%
Did Nothing to Target: 77%