[rebmonk]

So in our next podcast were going to try to make guard competitive, but i think i just came up with a broken guard list.

HQ:

Schaeffer, Cage, 20 last chancers
10 specialists, 10 lascannons - 630

HSO - 5 man squad, lascannon, medic, standard - 117
anti tank squad - 3 lascannons - 110
anti tank squad - 3 lascannons - 110

Troops:

The last chancers above

Elites:

10 veterans, 3 meltas, chimera with heavy bolters - 195
10 veterans, 3 meltas, chimera with heavy bolters - 195
10 veterans, 3 meltas, chimera with heavy bolters - 195

Fast attack:

Hellhound - 115
hellhound - 115

Heavy:

Leman Russ w/3 heavy bolters - 155
Leman Russ w/3 heavy bolters - 155
Leman Russ w/3 heavy bolters - 155

Total - 2247

Granted i have 3 points to spend, but what do you think? 17 lascannons, and a whole lot of templates, with 9 meltas should hopefully take down anything.

I have to take doctrines so i can take the veterans. I was thinking about taking cameoline/jungle fighters and deep striking, and drop the chimeras so i could deep strike the veterans and infiltrate/get a good cover save everywhere else.

Point is to just blast them off the table, and if an objective is involved blast them up till turn 5 then roll onto all those objectives.

 

[Dr. Paris]

I think against most general lists it would do well. However, a list with a lot of anti-armor, deep strikers, etc, would probably give you a hard time.

This reminds me of 'Nidzilla lists in that they are very min/maxed and great unless someone has a planned counter or a min/max list of their own.

 

[Willance]

Wow, I found it so hard to belive that that was legal that i had to cheak.

That list is broken,

 

[Beardy_Wierdy]

I would REALLY like to see someone face after putting down a mech/nidzilla list of some description against that....

Enough lascannons - operating as SINGLE teams....to wipe out a squad of infantry or half an armoured company in a single turn...nice.

 

[stayscrunchyinmilk]

I think against most general lists it would do well. However, a list with a lot of anti-armor, deep strikers, etc, would probably give you a hard time.

This reminds me of 'Nidzilla lists in that they are very min/maxed and great unless someone has a planned counter or a min/max list of their own.

I'm currently running a list entirely composed of armour (oh dear!) and deep striking Anti-tank (shaeffers with meltas & demos) Inc Melta'd up vets, Plasma's S/trps and SWSquads w/demos. (all deepstriking) Mine's 1.5k size. Will re-post it and it's results after sunday's tournament (Why it was created - and I'll give summarys on the 6 games I played for playtesting against it's foils and what I learnt/changed and why). May even include pics. (I'm saying this as it was really similar to yours in many ways)

P.s. for 30 pnts (light infantry) you can make your command squad + associates infiltrate and not put a single non-armour piece on the board before the infiltrateing step.
P.P.S Needs smoke on the hellhounds minimum.
P.P.P.S just to check - I've seen people try to do 26x drop-trooping plasma guns - you do know you can only split shaeffers into 5x max squads? - not accusing, just confirming.

 

[Dr. Paris]

I would REALLY like to see someone face after putting down a mech/nidzilla list of some description against that....

Enough lascannons - operating as SINGLE teams....to wipe out a squad of infantry or half an armoured company in a single turn...nice.

5 teams of 4 models, two lascannons per team (though on a BS of 4).

I dunno, this would be for a 2500 point game or so, that's a lot of stuff your oponent can counter with. Not to mention, he only has 60 IG infantry in the whole list. That's a skeleton crew.

Also, if the two hellhounds get taken out, that army would be hard pressed to put up a fight against any sort of horde army at that scale. Leman Russes are decent anti-hoarde, but not amazing. The lascannons would be a concern for me, but I don't know if I'd be that scared. At 2250~2500, there's going to be a lot of stuff out there to put the hurt on, especially if I had an SM army with more infantry than an IG player. 4 lascannons with tank hunters in cover will be an issue. (Especially if there's more than one squad of this and you have limited LoS to them.)

On the other hand, you can fit 3 hellhouds, 3 Russes, and a chimera into a 1500 pt list....

 

[Beardy_Wierdy]

5 teams of 4 models, two lascannons per team (though on a BS of 4).

Ah, forgot that Schaffer's mob can't be split down that far.


I might be tempted to drop a veterans mob in order to grab another hellhound too. Lascannon AND Template death in huge quantities.

 

[SimulatedSnowman]

So in our next podcast were going to try to make guard competitive, but i think i just came up with a broken guard list

Ha so are you saying that guard have to be broken in order to be competitive?

 

[rebmonk]

sure ill say that. In our area we have had a couple of guard players and while they are fun games the guard players have never topped 3. Hopefully that will change, but it seems with guard that if your line gets hit in cc your done for.

 

[Dr. Paris]

sure ill say that. In our area we have had a couple of guard players and while they are fun games the guard players have never topped 3. Hopefully that will change, but it seems with guard that if your line gets hit in cc your done for.

The list I had at a 25 person store tournament had 2 russes, and 2 chimeras, one platoon, and command in 1000 points. Vehicle heavy, but hardly what I call broken.

I finished 2nd and narrowly lost to 1st by a one in a hundred glancing krak missle that blew up my russ on the last turn.

Clearly you need better guard players at your store.

 

[SimulatedSnowman]

sure ill say that. In our area we have had a couple of guard players and while they are fun games the guard players have never topped 3. Hopefully that will change, but it seems with guard that if your line gets hit in cc your done for.

Hm. So I take it you've never played Mechanized or Drop guard then? Or seen a gunline play against another shooty list? It's pretty much a super generalized statement to say that once a gunline gets hit with an assault that they're done for. Unless the guys you play against have no idea what they are doing, it shouldn't be possible to get enough troops to a big enough part of an IG gunline in order to wreck them completely. It's part of what makes the gunline so effective. Just from the amount of squads on the table in a 2000 point game, you'd have to be bringing some serious horde to hit it hard enough to break the whole thing, and even then, the guard have a lot of weapons that excel against hordes, and it would take a lot of terrible dice rolls.

I would say that your statement is one of limited experience and shortsightedness. The store I play at has 4 'Nid players who have a difficult time against most other armies, and by your logic, this means that nids cannot compete. Also, the SoB player rarely gets any wins, so SoB must need to be broken as well. Oh yeah, the two Necron players too. So I suppose that the only armies that really can win are Orks, Space Marines and Eldar, since I've never seen a DE player, I might as well assume they wouldn't win either.

In your podcast do you have any players who play IG? Are any of your guys thinking of playing IG? Because it seems to me that you're looking to give advice in a department where you have no experience. There is a certain amount of credibility in providing theory, I'll admit, and certainly if you wanted to go for an all out win list, the one you've provided would be plausible. But that'd be like me throwing out a Dark Eldar list simply by min/maxing and saying that its a winner, when I've never played or played against DE.

 

[Dr. Paris]

Easy their snowman. The guy is wrong but you don't have to lynch him yet.

 

[SimulatedSnowman]

Haha did that come off as lynching? It wasn't my intention if it did.

 

[Greenbeard The Ex-pirate]

The list I had at a 25 person store tournament had 2 russes, and 2 chimeras, one platoon, and command in 1000 points. Vehicle heavy, but hardly what I call broken.

I finished 2nd and narrowly lost to 1st by a one in a hundred glancing krak missle that blew up my russ on the last turn.

Clearly you need better guard players at your store.

Man i couldn't agree more. Guard don't need to be broken into win. They just have to understand how to fit the right mixture of heavy weapons and tanks/men.

Back to the thread topic- Its interesting to say the least. Thats a lot of las cannons I'm not going to lie. I imagine it would fair pretty well, most of the time. It strikes me as a great one trick pony. Maybe something to use against a friend who is giving you a hard time (make him nice and paranoid... then revert back to the normal list)

It may just be me, but don't really hold for the whole trying to find a way to make a full proof list. I would much rather use a list that has a harder time winning and is fluffy (and looks good) then playing something that focuses on, for lack of a better term, power gaming. Don't get me wrong I'm as completive as the next guy, but I'm much more fond of balance in all things not that straight line I'm going to win, your going to lose so lets just quit now and safe us two hours of time. End mini rant.

At any rate nice job picking up on that its mean, don't abuse it though.

 

[rebmonk]

its all good. And yes we do have guard experienced members. I played the most recent guard codex a while back for a couple of years, but only with my friends and not against the kind of competitive lists I see with my tyranids these days. Graham, also on the show, played a guard army and went from all drop troops to mixed and back. So we do have experience with playing guard.

I know the last statement was a really really big overstatement, and probably a lie. But when i went to the semi-finals for the 'ard boyz, there were about 30 people there and not 1 guard player. Ill stop, as i continue to overgeneralize. I just haven't played to a good guard player yet and i have yet to see them do really well, especially against tyranids and necrons.

Ill probably hop over to the army list area and look at 1750-2000 point lists, since thats what we mainly play. Ive also been working on a list with a friend who is playing in the next tourney, so well see how his army does.

 

[SimulatedSnowman]

I know the last statement was a really really big overstatement, and probably a lie. But when i went to the semi-finals for the 'ard boyz, there were about 30 people there and not 1 guard player.

I suppose that a better question would be "What armies can compete in a tournament without having some less than sportsmanlike attributes?" I'd be interested to know what the majority of players used out of that field of thirty.

Ill stop, as i continue to overgeneralize. I just haven't played to a good guard player yet and i have yet to see them do really well, especially against tyranids and necrons.

Perhaps it is my limited experience as well, since I play against both regularly and don't really have too much trouble with my gunline and mech lists. I phased out a 2000 pt. Necron army in two turns with some (admittedly fortuitous) shooting.

 

[Wolf Guard]

I agree with Snowman, if you are an experienced Guard player then you should not have any trouble with using your guard even against an army of cc maniacs (DE Incubi and Eldar Harlies come to mind). Guard are still competative and as stated early do not need to be "broken" to play.

 

[kadun]

I think a better Guard List is the:
20 Deep Striking Last Chancers w/ Plasma Guns
3 Squads of 5 Deep Striking Vets w/ Plasma Guns
Deep Striking Command Squad w/ Melta Guns
2 Deep Striking Special Weapons Squads w/ Demo Charge and Melta Guns
3 Hellhounds
3 Demolishers w/ Heavy Bolters all around.

 

[MaxDv]

I dont care about what anybody has to say about that list, I thinks it's a great one that can easly handle tanks as well infantry.

 

[Exarch Thomo]

I'm going to throw my vote in (proverbially speaking) with snowman and that. I don't think I play an unbalanced nor competetive guard list, and yet I win and draw much more than I lose with it.
My list is along the lines of
HQ with Iron Discipline, Mortar, Bolter
1 Anti-tank squad (lascannons) with sharpshooters
1 Autocannon squad with sharpshooters
1 Mortar Squad
JSO with mortar, bolter
1 Squad with autocannon
1 Squad with ML
Armoured fist squad with Melta
Chimera with HB, Multilaser
1 Russ with HB's.

That's roughly my standard 1k list and both times i've lost it's been against eldar (once the avatar got into my units I was hardpressed to stop him). Other than that I really don't have that much trouble with any army.
Most frustrating would probably be tau because of their range and mobility (but I got him in my last game. Had destroyed his fire warriors, devil fish, blown the gun off his hammerhead, dropped his broadside and taken out both little skimmer things leaving him with 4 crisis suits. I pulled all my remaining units (approx 3/4ths of my army) behind terrain on turn 4. He couldn't cover the ground fast enough to get los to anything and I just kept lobbing mortars at him. That'll show him, stupid JSJ.)
Guard don't need uber competetive lists to play a decent game - no armies do.