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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK this is one of first guard lists i have ever made.

HQ

Company Command squad- Creed, Kell, medi pack, 3x grenade launchers, bodygaurdx2
Astropath, carapace Armour, vox caster-295

Troops

Infantry platoon

Platoon command squad- power weapon , medi pack, vox caster, x3 grenade launchers-95

x3 infantry squad- grenade launcher, vox caster, lascannon- 80

Heavy weapons squad- 3x lascannons- 105

Total-435

Infantry platoon

Platoon command squad- power weapon , medi pack, vox caster, x3 grenade launchers-95

x3 infantry squad- grenade launcher, vox caster, lascannon- 80

Heavy weapons squad- 3x lascannons- 105

total- 435

Fast attack- hell hound- 130

Heavy support

Leman Russ Punisher- heavy bolter- 200

Total-1495
 

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Torn ACL FTL
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Ton of points sunk into crap upgrades (everything the PCS has), 2 HWS are notoriously easy to kill off and the Punisher is made of fail. You have nothing to hurt hordes, so bringing an anti-mech list is going to accomplish jack all when hordes come calling.

Lose the junk, add mech and anti-hordish for flexibility.
 

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Hey there and welcome to the guard. Always nice to see new people to add to the meat grinder. Not a bad start for a list, but there are some big things to point out. I'll break it down by individual choices then look at the army as a cohesive unit.

Company Command squad- Creed, Kell, medi pack, 3x grenade launchers, bodygaurdx2
Astropath, carapace Armour, vox caster-295
Waaaaaaaay too expensive. This is a very squishy unit that will be the main target for every piece of ordinance the enemy has. Creed can be useful, but you need tailor the army to make use of the ridiculous orders he can give. Kell is too pricey in my mind, I'd drop him.

Medipack and Carapace aren't so good, they are crazy expensive as well. FNP sounds nice, but you have to realize that these are all T3 so anything S6 or higher will negate it. 4+ save also sounds nice, but it's nothing special for the points you pay. Personally I find the best defensive option to be the camo-cloaks, especially with Creed. He can sit back with a 3+ cover save and still boss most things around.

Bodyguards are a bit 'meh' for the points, keep the CCS as cheap as possible. Drop them.

You only have one outflanking unit and I don't think you'll be deploying much in reserves so I'd drop the astropath.

Vox is useful with Creed, regimental standard would be nice as well. The Grenade Launchers are very nice IMO, but if Creed is going to be stationary in cover, a heavy weapon like an autocannon would be great.


Platoon command squad- power weapon , medi pack, vox caster, x3 grenade launchers-95
Unless you are gearing up for a huge CC blob, drop the power weapon (powerfist would be a better choice for CC as the guy is at I3 and will probably be striking last in combat anyway). Drop the medipack, waste of points on a PCS. Vox-caster is okay, but you may want to combine squads to shave down the points on them. Grenade launchers are good, flamers are another option to deter assaulters.


x3 infantry squad- grenade launcher, vox caster, lascannon- 80
If you are going with lascannon batteries take 2 20-man squads with lascannons each (forget the GLs) and throw in voxes.

Something like this:

  • PCS - x3 Grenade Launchers, Vox -50
  • x2 Infantry Squads - x2 Lascannons, Vox - 145
  • x2 Infantry Squads - x2 Lascannons, Vox - 145

This will maximize you ability to hit multiple targets and get 2 twin-linked lascannon shots with "Bring it down" from Creed. Remember, lascannons are not meant to take down heavy armor, they are for stopping AV12, don't expect them to do overly well against heavy vehicles.

Consider commissars if you have the points.

Heavy weapons squad- 3x lascannons- 105
Bad idea, remember these are T3 so a Multilaser is capable of wiping out the entire squad in one volley. If you are taking HWS keep them cheap(autocannons are best, IMO) and take lots of them.

hell hound- 130
Good choice, but keep in mind that because you only have two vehicle, this thing will take a lot of AT fire and probably die very quickly. I'd take a few chimeras (or more hellhounds) to put up some target saturation.

You seriously lack anti-tank, I think Vendettas or Devil Dogs would do you much better.


Leman Russ Punisher- heavy bolter- 200
Probably the worst tank choice in the guard. Take a demolisher instead with a hull heavy flamer and nothing else. You really need the strength 10. Two of them would be even better.



Overall you can shave a lot of points off of the CCS and give the line-squads more focus. 4 20-man line squads with lascannons are perfect for Creed's 4 orders.

The lack of anti-tank at 1500 is a bit unsettling, even with that many lascannons. I think you need melta and S10 ordinance just to be safe. Devil Dogs or Demolishers (maybe hellhounds with multi-meltas) would be good.

Finally there is the lack of mobility. 5th Edition is a game of objective taking and the ability to get scoring units to places quickly is nice. Vendettas with SWSs or Chimeras for the PCS would work.

Hope this helped. :soldier:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
HQ

Company Command squad- Creed, Kell, 3x grenade launchers, vox caster-240

Elites

5x ratlings-50

Troops

Infantry platoon

Platoon command squad- vox caster, x4 grenade launchers-55

x2 infantry squad- , vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

x2 infantry squad- vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

x2Heavy weapons squad- 3x auto cannons-145
Total-490

Troops

Infantry platoon

Platoon command squad- vox caster, x4 grenade launchers-55

x2 infantry squad- , vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

x2 infantry squad- vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

x2Heavy weapons squad- 3x auto cannons-145
Total-490

Heavy support

Leman Russ Executioner-Plasma cannons, 230

Total-1500

The point of this army is to NOT MOVE.

The command squad will sit in their chimera and with leadership 10 orders rerolling it is not likely orders will fail and 24 inches should reach all squads.

heavy weapon squads should be in cover and the Russ should take care of any terminators or similar units as well as killing horde units

the line squads should be able to take care of high Armour units like land raiders and monoliths and with first rank fire second rank fire 120 shots a platoon will rip through anything with toughness 6 down.

The ratlings are because i had a spare 50 points and the models

i am thinking of putting a standard Russ in but i don't know where to cut the points.
 

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The PCS squads are illegal with a vox and 4 grenade launchers. If you read a bit more near the bottom of options load outs, you can have the officer, 1 vox, and 3 grenade launchers.

Specifically, and I quote "Any remaing Guardsman that has not been upgraded with one of the options above may replace his lasgun with:"

Yeah a vox isn't a weapon replacement, but it counts towards the options.

Demolisher out classes the Punisher and executioner (way to expensive) in every way in close up damage dealing and killing terminators.

Kell isn't all the great either, get a vet to hold the regimental standard, drop the grenade launchers, buy camo cloaks and a mortar. This will keep Creed good and cozy while being able to hide behind cover. Putting them in a chimera might be a double edge sword, yeah they are safe from assault, but assault units and nearly all heavy weapon fire will toast the chimera depending on how long your leman lasts. Keep them out of LoS with and with cloaks in cover.

Finally, drop two autocannon teams and get yourself a bare leman battle tank with only a hull heavy bolter if you want that second tank in.
 

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HQ
Company Command squad- Creed, Kell, 3x grenade launchers, vox caster-240
Still too pricey in my opinion. I'd say drop Kell. I don't see where you are getting the chimera you mentioned at the bottom. A chimera would bump the points up to 295.

Also, Kell replaces one of the veterans so you can only have x2 grenade launchers and the vox in this squad, though the points are right so just a typo, I guess.

5x ratlings-50
Meh, I don't like snipers. If they work for you, fine, could be used to scrounge up points elsewhere.


Platoon command squad- vox caster, x4 grenade launchers-55

x2 infantry squad- , vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

x2 infantry squad- vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

x2Heavy weapons squad- 3x auto cannons-145
Looks good to me. Also what Maelkith said, the PCS is illegal and the HWS are 150, not 145.


Leman Russ Executioner-Plasma cannons, 230
There are mixed opinions on this tank, but I personally like this sucker. Unfortunately I think at this point two tanks would be much better than one just in case one of them goes down.

Total-1500]
Heheh, despite several of the points typos above, this is exactly on the mark. Kinda cool in an odd sort of way. :dance:

How about this? Drop: Kell, the Executioner, the ratlings, and one autocannon HWS for 440 points. Pick up: x2 Demolishers (hull heavy flamer), x2 Chimeras (one for each of the PCS).

This does leave the CCS a bit unprotected, but if you hide him in cover behind all of your other squads he should live long enough to get those critical orders issued. The demos can literally kill anything you are having issue with and the chimeras put some more armor and high-strength weapons on the field and can cart the PCS around for objective grabbing (and protection) should you need to.


The point of this army is to NOT MOVE.
Unfortunately when 2/3 of games are objective base you really should have a few things mobile to run and capture/contest objectives late in the game. Your call, though.

The command squad will sit in their chimera and with leadership 10 orders rerolling it is not likely orders will fail and 24 inches should reach all squads.
Yeah keeping Kell around so you get the LD10 is nice, but if you already have the voxes in the squads he's not really needed. Not enough benefit for the points IMO.

the line squads should be able to take care of high Armour units like land raiders and monoliths
Wrong, lascannons don't reliably work against AV14 even with re-rolls. Demolishers do the job much, much better with S10 and being able to roll 2 dice and pick the highest. Yes lascannons can hurt them, but you are much better off hitting AV12 with the lascannons before you work up to the Heavies.

Autocannons take out transports, light armor, and force wounds on MCs.

Lascannons take out medium armor, MCs, and then starting going after high AV when there is nothing else to shoot at

Melta takes out heavy armor.

Demos/Medusas take out everything

and with first rank fire second rank fire 120 shots a platoon will rip through anything with toughness 6 down.
Amen to that. :soldier:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
HQ

Company Command squad- Creed, Kell, 2x grenade launchers, vox caster-240


Troops

Infantry platoon

Platoon command squad- vox caster, x3 grenade launchers-50

x2 infantry squad- , vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

x2 infantry squad- vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

Heavy weapons squad- 3x missile launcher-90
Total-430

Troops

Infantry platoon

Platoon command squad- vox caster, x3 grenade launchers-50

x2 infantry squad- , vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

x2 infantry squad- vox caster, x2lascannon- 145

Heavy weapons squad- 3x autocannon-75
Total-415

Heavy support

Leman Russ Demolisher-lascannon- 180

Leman Russ Battle tank- Heavy bolter sponsons, lascannon-185

Total-1500

I will have kell!

because i have had bad experience with orders failing.

missile launchers instead of auto cannons to take Armour 12 or 13 max. and the frag will help anti horde.

I have gone with a demolisher although if i drop the heavy wepon teams all together i could afford the executioner a light tank of some sort and maybe make the battle tank a vanquisher?
 

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Torn ACL FTL
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Don't bother with missile launchers, autocannons are just better.

Kell is not worth it with voxes in place.

You want to be static, so you'll suffer in objective missions. Also, you may run into crowding issues with 80 guardsmen filling up your deployment zone (Spearhead is going to hurt).

Don't bother with hull lascannons, BS3 kinda sucks without re-rolls.

I'd look into something more reliable at busting heavy armor. Hellhounds w/ multi-meltas, Demos, Devil Dogs, the ever popular meltaVets, allied Sisters, and the like. They give you much needed mobility and help against armor. Some crowd control never hurts too considering all your infantry are firing lascannons.
 

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OK this is one of first guard lists i have ever made.
If you want to kill mech, you need to spam autocannons, not lascannons. The odds are near-equal of killing AV10/11/12 with both, so take the low-cost option that has the extra shots to help with hordes and monstrous creatures.

You'll also need meltas somewhere. Stormtroopers (5-man squads with 2 x melta) cost 105 pts. and can deep-strike with a re-roll. These would be good for taking out heavy armor in your enemy's backfield. But you'll also need some meltas for up close work in your line somewhere.

Basically, every IG army needs 3 things:

1) Light Anti-tank fire (Autocannons, Vendettas) for taking out transports and other light armor. This buys you time by making a large percentage of the other guy's force walk into your line. Basically, you need the ability to kill at least 2-3 light tanks on turn one.

2) Meltas (Or Medusas/Vanquishers/Manticores) for taking out AV13/14 reliably. As a foot army, you need a way to hit tanks both in front of you and in the other guy's backfield.

3) Template Weapons (Or Eradicators) to kill lots of enemy infantry up close. Even space marines fear massed flamers.
 

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I will have kell!
Why he's very expensive and

Don't bother with missile launchers, autocannons are just better.

Kell is not worth it with voxes in place.

I'd look into something more reliable at busting heavy armor. Hellhounds w/ multi-meltas, Demos, Devil Dogs, the ever popular meltaVets, allied Sisters, and the like. They give you much needed mobility and help against armor.
Basically, every IG army needs 3 things:

1) Light Anti-tank fire (Autocannons, Vendettas) for taking out transports and other light armor. This buys you time by making a large percentage of the other guy's force walk into your line. Basically, you need the ability to kill at least 2-3 light tanks on turn one.

2) Meltas (Or Medusas/Vanquishers(not so sure on this one, v.expensive for what it does)/Manticores) for taking out AV13/14 reliably. As a foot army, you need a way to hit tanks both in front of you and in the other guy's backfield.

3) Template Weapons (Or Eradicators) to kill lots of enemy infantry up close. Even space marines fear massed flamers.
I agree with this ^

Hydras I think are one of the best anti-mech units in the guard book, 4 re-rollable autocannon (s7) shots at 72" range which ignore skimmer and turbo booster saves, whats not to love. 2 will pop any transport they shoot at, and can fill other rolls due to weight of fire and reasonable s/ap, while only costing 150pts!!!!! Also in practical terms they are a reasonable size, so transporting to and from the field of battle isn't quite as much of a struggle as vendettas...
 

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Hydras I think are one of the best anti-mech units in the guard book, 4 re-rollable autocannon (s7) shots at 72" range which ignore skimmer and turbo booster saves, whats not to love. 2 will pop any transport they shoot at, and can fill other rolls due to weight of fire and reasonable s/ap, while only costing 150pts!!!!! Also in practical terms they are a reasonable size, so transporting to and from the field of battle isn't quite as much of a struggle as vendettas...
Oh I agree. There's just one thing that I don't like about Hydras... they're not very mobile.

Which isn't a big deal for a static gun line. But I like to get up in the enemy's face with a mobile force that can adapt to the field every turn. However, if I move my Hydras, they can only fire half the shots they normally would. Which kind of sucks, because it means an enemy can scoot into cover or out of sight of them. While a Russ, Sentinel Squad, or Vendetta can chase an enemy around corners.
 

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This is true about Hydras. It's a complete git going down to 2 shots whilst on the move but 2 twin linked str7 shots still isn't bad. I just whack a Hydra in each corner of the board so i get the best lines of fire. With a 72 inch range they can target anything on the board and generally advancing vehicles don't worry about things over 4ft away so expose their side armour - Which is rather nice of them.

Just to echo what the other boys have said. Lascannon are fine for killing transports, but Autocannons do it just as well at half the cost. I face an army with lots of lascannons regularly with my Mech list and I don't think they've ever killed a tank. Ever. Lascannons still need a 5+ to kill a vehicle on a penetrating so you'll need 3 penetrating hits on average to kill a tank. Lascannons are generally too expensive to field them in large numbers to get that many damage rolls.
Even against, say a predator, AV13 you'll need 9 Lascannon HITS to kill it. (5's to pen = 3, 5's to wreck = 1)


EDIT: Sorry ==ME== you snuck that post in.

Really? In it's profile it says it's armed with 2x twin linked Hydra Autocannons. So surely thats 2 weapons?? I can see why if it's treated as one as it's all in one turret. So are both weapons just counted as one for Weapon Destroyed results as well then?
 

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I think its is two separate twinlinked autocannons, at least thats how I've played mine, but I can see the argument both ways. I suppose =ME='s way of doing it is higher risk with higher reward...

I do think hydras should get some sort of overwatch style attack to stop things dashing from out of sight behind cover to another piece of cover to account for the decent tracking systems but that would unbalance it a touch.

Before Gork asks how to make a hydra (and who wouldn't want one???) either splurge on the rather expensive but very pretty forgeworld kit or you can use the autocannon mount from an aegis defense line like I did. It fits right on the ring where the turret goes on a chimera, or you can mod a basilisk (which I am planning for the future, the chimera version looks fine but a touch front heavy for my liking). Now you can't get them separately very easily anymore but they are out there.

Although if you look in the rumours section there is a new expansion coming out to do with more scenarios for battles which is bringing with it as of yet unknown new models for IG, SM and orks. I wouldn't be surprised if there is another multi-tank kit like the new demo with the artillery and hydra in it in a couple of months.

anywhos enough rambling...
 

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Or you can do what i did. You can buy the Top hull plate and Turret of the Leman Russ from GW, Grab a chimera and combine the two. It makes kind of a light Battle tank rather than the Hydra but it fits with a Mech list fluffwise more in my opinion. If someone whinges you can use the Agis Autocannons instead of the Russ turret as it fits perfect like.

There's a pic in my Blog http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/blogs/lord-borak/1848-dune-howlers.html
 

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if you really want both creed and kell I'd drop the vox caster network then.

I like the generally idea of going back to straight up gunline, but I don't think you have enough firepower needed for it, if you wanna go straight gunline you pretty much need an overwhelming amount of firepower to kill all the enemy coming at you and all of their troops.


I would change 2 of those blobs to have autocannons and grenade launchers, you can still keep the other two as lascannons. That way after you bust the transports you have a weapon capable of also taking out the infantry inside.

Maybe try to find room for some artillery like a collossus or a pair of griffons.

Losing all the voxes, the lascannons on the LR's and switching the ML's to AC's gives you enough for a single griffon with 5 points to spare. and if you find another 30 points you can instead get two chimeras for your PCS to act as gun platforms/protection.
 

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Actually, IIRC the Hydra's 4 autocannons are all one weapon, so it can move 6" and fire to full effect.
Page 51 of the guard codex describes a Hydra autocannon as a heavy 2 weapon. And page 102 list the weapons loadout of the Hydra as "2 Hydra Autocannons", plus a heavy bolter.

Ergo, you can only fire one autocannon on the move.
 

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Even against, say a predator, AV13 you'll need 9 Lascannon HITS to kill it. (5's to pen = 3, 5's to wreck = 1)
(Runs custom simulation program)

Actually, 9 lascannon hits only equate to a 71% chance of killing a Pred. Though it's 95% likely to be an immobilized, weaponless hulk. :)

I played a newish Space Wolves guy with my IG on Sunday. He got pretty frustrated shooting lascannons at my Russes all-game-long. He kept doing a 3-2 split with his single squad of Long Fangs between both Demolishers.

When I told him at the end of the game that ALL FIVE lascannons, firing together, only had an 18% chance of popping AV14, he suddenly understood why I kept telling him he needed more meltas and some Rifleman Dreds.
 
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