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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Greatings fellow residents of the warp,

I'm trying to make a chaos armylist, but I got stranded.

I have a chaos sorcerer lord with a 5 man retinue of chosen. all have mark of tzeench, and 4 of the 5 chosen are equiped for sorcerers, having spychic powers.

Now, the last chosen(asp champion) has a deamon icon with a bloodthirster enslaved, and my intention was to let that chosen transform in the deamon. but,

1. Am I allowed to enslave a greater deamon?
2. If so, can an korne greater deamon be enslaved on a model with mark of tzeench?
3. How does the spawning take place? a enslaved deamon doesn't need a reserve roll to spawn, but a greater deamon needs a host.
4. the greater deamon of korne can't spawn from a chosen with tzeench mark can it?


Can you deamonic beings clear this up for me?

Thanks,
Reno
 

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In the codex it says that deamon icon's may only be used by a unit of chosen bearing the mark of chaos undevided, so no tzeench chosen squad. Further more I am quite certain that only the following deamons can be summoned from the icon; Bloodletters/Plaugebearers/Horrors/Daemonettes, I also think it applies for the fast deamon beasts but less sure: Flesh Hounds/Screamers/Furies.... On that note I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use nurglings in this matter from the wording of the codex, but I doubt they would be used :p
 

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Shas'O RenoSaurus said:
1. Am I allowed to enslave a greater deamon?
No. Only standard Daemon Units are allowed to be enslaved in the Daemon Icon. Greater Daemons always use their special summoning rules listed on pages 12 and 13 of the Chaos Codex.

Shas'O RenoSaurus said:
2. If so, can an korne greater deamon be enslaved on a model with mark of tzeench?
No. Again, pages 12 and 13 of the Chaos Codex specifically points this out. Daemons are only able to be summoned through an Icon that matches their Chaos Power or through one aligned to Undivided.

Shas'O RenoSaurus said:
3. How does the spawning take place? a enslaved deamon doesn't need a reserve roll to spawn, but a greater deamon needs a host.
This should've been addressed in the other two answers. Basically, it's all on pages 12 and 13 of the Chaos Codex.

Shas'O RenoSaurus said:
4. the greater deamon of korne can't spawn from a chosen with tzeench mark can it?
No. Once again, pages 12 and 13.

Bascially, since your Chosen have the Mark of Tzeentch, you can't have the Bloodthirster summoned through them, nor can they have a Daemon Icon. They get a free standard icon, but only Tzeentch daemons are able to be summoned to it. The Champion of the unit is able to act as Daemonhost to a Lord of Change, but no other Greater Daemon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ok. I've only played tau and imperial guard before, so it's all new to me. a huge wargear, 200000 options, and too many rules. But I'll learn to use it, just takes some time. thank you.

I had to change my hq anyways, it was a 590 pts squad. I may not now much from chaos, but I think that overdoes it a little bit.

thanks gor your help.
 

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Shas'O RenoSaurus said:
Ok. I've only played tau and imperial guard before, so it's all new to me. a huge wargear, 200000 options, and too many rules. But I'll learn to use it, just takes some time. thank you.
Yes, the Chaos Codex can be very daunting at first. So many options to choose from, and rules scattered all about the Codex. The most important pages are 12, 13, and 38. Once you have those pages down, you should be set to make strong armies.

If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask. And if you have a list you'd like people to look over, drop by the army lists subforum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
well,

I now changed my HQ, and the slaved greater deamon thing is gone. so I now want to summon it through my troop choices. I have 6 squard of 5 marines. this cause I will mutate them to spawn, and then 5 man squads is better, since I won't loose all my marines if a squad is killed. But in order to be ably to make a space marine a deamonvessel, he has got to have the mark of korne, (whcih has other advantiges too.

But then it will become an elite choice right? or does it stay a troop, since I have a bloodthirster?

oh and it would be nice to know what you htink of my hq.


Chaos Sorcerer Lord----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------totaal hq: 534 pts
WargearMark of Tzeench, Bedlam staff, bolt pistol
Psychic: Familiar, Gift of Chaos, Mass Mutation, 4*Thrall wizard,---------------------------------Sorcerer lord: 166 pts
Retinue: - 4 chosen-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Retinue : 368 pts
------------4* mark of tzeench, 4* gift of chaos, 4*familiar,
-------------4*Bolt of Change, 8*thrall wizard(2 per sorcerer)

A friend said it would be better to remove the bolt of change. note that 205 extra points for the bloodthirster are added to my HQ
 

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Shas'O RenoSaurus said:
But in order to be ably to make a space marine a deamonvessel, he has got to have the mark of korne, (whcih has other advantiges too.)
The daemonhost could bear the Mark of Chaos Undivided instead, if you preferred that.

Shas'O RenoSaurus said:
But then it will become an elite choice right? or does it stay a troop, since I have a bloodthirster?
Because you have a Chaos Sorcerer, the unit with a Mark of Khorne will be an Elites choice. He is your general, so troops choices will share the same Mark as him, have MoCU or no Mark. Anything else will be Elites.

As for your Lord -
I don't see the point of combining Gift of Chaos and Mass Mutation. I'm assuming you're planning on creating a giant unit of Spawn and then Mass Muatating them? Doesn't work - they're considered followers and don't recieve the effects of Mass Mutation.

GoC is still a decent spell, however. It allows you to snipe enemy models, which is invaluable. It's also useable when in Close Combat, so you should never go a turn without being able to attempt to create a spawn. But instead of Mass Mutation, perhaps think about saving those points, or going with Bolt of Change instead. The high BS of the Lord will ensure that he hits with most of his shots.

As for the Chosen -
They're illegal as you have them. Chosen with the Mark of Tzeentch are not allowed to take Bolt of Change or Thralls unless they've been upgraded to Champions.

As for the HQ as a whole - you're paying a ton of points for 5 models. 68 points per Chosen is a huge investment - Terminators are cheaper than that. While I see what you're trying to do - create meat shields using Gift of Chaos - I don't think you're going to be very successful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
arg, I hate all those options.


Ok, so my hq is as illigal as it can get? right so let's change it then.


Chaos Sorcerer Lord
Wargear:Mark of Tzeench, Bedlam staff, bolt pistol
Psychic: Familiar, Gift of Chaos, Bolt of Change, 4*Thrall wizard
Retinue: - 4 chosen
------------4* mark of tzeench, 4* gift of chaos, Power weapon, Bolt Pistol


totaal hq: 408 pts
Sorcerer lord: 176 pts
Retinue : 232 pts


I thought stuff like Bolt of Change was added to the "Psychic abilitys and equipment" catagory when the model has a mark of change. that's what the codex says anyways. and then I could take bolt of change right?
if that's true, hen 2 chosen will have bolt of change, and no PW, pistol
 

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Caluin said:
Chosen with the Mark of Tzeentch are not allowed to take Bolt of Change or Thralls unless they've been upgraded to Champions.
Um. I know Thralls are wargear and so can only be taken by champs and ICs, but isn't the Bolt of Change a psychic power and as such able to be taken a chosen who has been made a sorceror by taking the mark of Tzeentch?

I mean, I realize that it is in the Tzeentch armory and only ACs and ICs of Tzeentch are able to take items from the armory, but we do agree(?) that chosen with the mark count as sorcerors and as such can take the psychic powers which are in the main armory.

EDIT: Ok. So I've repeated the above post. Darn it. It happens when I start to post, stop to look up a rule and then go back to it. By the time I've finished someone is faster on the draw. ;).
 

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Grey said:
Um. I know Thralls are wargear and so can only be taken by champs and ICs, but isn't the Bolt of Change a psychic power and as such able to be taken a chosen who has been made a sorceror by taking the mark of Tzeentch?
It is a Psychic Power, but first and foremost it is a Gift of the God. The Mark of Tzeentch grants the option to take upgrades from the "Psychic Abilities & Equipment" section of the Armoury. The Bolt of Change doesn't appear there - it appears over under "Gifts of Tzeentch."

Grey said:
EDIT: Ok. So I've repeated the above post. Darn it. It happens when I start to post, stop to look up a rule and then go back to it. By the time I've finished someone is faster on the draw. ;).
Happens to me all the time. Drives me batty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I know the problem.

So then I will change 2 chosen. that'll add 38 points to the total hq points.
436 points for a 5 man hq. is that too much?
 
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