Librarium Online Forums banner
1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We all know there are requirements for the force organization chart. And clearly how many slots of different types depend on the kind of army you play etc.
What do you think are ideal numbers for the force organization chart, either in slots or in point values? What are typical goals that you try and reach when creating your army list?

For Ex. For a long time I think that I should take a minimum troops of 2 for 500, 3 for 1000, 4 for 1500 and so on. With the new rules I also feel like I should try and have a minimum of 1 fast attack and 1 heavy support to take advantage of the different scoring missions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,159 Posts
This topic is too broad to be discussed effectively. Every codex is geared towards different foc-slots consumption: for example many of the new codexes always fill out heavy supports and or elites, imperial guard can easily consume only 2 troop slots and field 100+ infantrymen, etc.

You should really narrow down this topic to something more specific, like a single codex or a single foc-slot, and specify a metric for what you intend with "Ideal" eg: firepower, durability, cost-effectiveness, coolness factor, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,411 Posts
I agree with those Troops metrics, they're essential to 5/6 of the scenarios. I'm finding Heavy fills up real fast for any army I'm making a list for, Space Wolves, Eldar, or Crimson Fists.

What I'd like to know is what point level people think 2 HQs is too much. I know some books have really cheap choices, but generally they're 150-200 each. Do you find it almost necessary at 1500+, or is it all down to list construction? I always feel you can make anything work if you have the right strategy or build.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I realize that it's a broad topic, but I'm mostly just curious about what you personally do. What considerations do you have regarding the force organization chart when you're making an army list for your army? If you have more than one, than tell us about all of them, or pick one!

The HQ discussion is something I've been thinking a lot about as well. I've been thinking that I usually want a strong close combat HQ for starters. I mostly play marines, so usually a chapter master or a captain kitted out for challenges and close combat. So I've been thinking that in most cases I would run one of those and then only another HQ if I feel I need the synergy and support that they give - ie. librarians for cool psychic powers and chaplains for good close combat support. I haven't experimented enough with doing other things though. At the moment I don't even have models for other HQ's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,159 Posts
Ok then :) well, i've not played much 6th ed, and I play only IG, no allies.

Thus said, I've never had any particular problem with the FoC. If i wanted to, I can field around 160 scoring bodies, 3 flyers and 3 heavy tanks using only 2 troops, 1 FA and 1 HS.
 
G

·
I agree with those Troops metrics, they're essential to 5/6 of the scenarios. I'm finding Heavy fills up real fast for any army I'm making a list for, Space Wolves, Eldar, or Crimson Fists.

What I'd like to know is what point level people think 2 HQs is too much. I know some books have really cheap choices, but generally they're 150-200 each. Do you find it almost necessary at 1500+, or is it all down to list construction? I always feel you can make anything work if you have the right strategy or build.
Orks: 2 HQs Always; 90pts Mekboy with KFF & Boss Pole & Whatever Allies HQ I am taking. I never run vanilla Orks anymore because they just don't have what it takes to keep up without them in my local metagame.
Necron: 1 HQ but at 1500pts a Court of at least 3 more characters. They are all 1 wound characters but its worth mentioning that I still find it nessisary to take them.
Eldar: 1 HQ at all points levels, everything else is too expensive to spare the points.
Tau: 1 or 2 depending on my opponent. I generally never see a reason not to take Shadowsun and stick here with a Crisis team to increase their mobility against Guard or anyone I know who likes fielding lots of high Av vehicles. My default commander if Tau are the main detachment is a generic commander with drone controller, target lock, 2 missile pods, 2 marker drones who joins a unit of 6 more marker drones.
Space Marines: 1 HQ and I wish I didn't have to take one at all. In tactics I prefer for marines they are superflous so I generally go with a dirt cheap Librarian.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,884 Posts
FoC slots isnt how you should define your units, they should be defined by what they add to the army. Don't look at how many heavy support choices you have look at:

Objective Capturing Potential:
How many scoring units do you have? How large are they? How durable? How mobile? Are there any other units that can be made to score? Remember although 5/6 missions use scoring units many armies can get by with just a few. Crusade has D3+2 objectives, so this is what you need the most troops for in general, Purge the Alien you don't need any. Big Guns Never Tire and The Scouring make other FoC choices scoring so if you have 2-3 fast attack or heavy support choices you can afford to go light on troops. The Emperors Will and The Relic barely require any scoring units at all, these usually come down to secondaries or fast units contesting your opponents objective.

Long Range Anti Tank/MCs:
Killing a tank turn 1 can easily net you first blood and an early advantage in a game, also this firepower is great for weaking a wraithknight or putting a few shots into a small backfield unit of your opponents.

Anti-Flyer:
Killing flyers and flying MCs is extremely important as they can cross the field and damage your forces quickly. Without adequite fire support an army with multiple flying models can destroy you, a Necron flying bakery can deposit troops where they need to be at a moments notice, easily claiming or contesting objectives.

Heavy Anti Tank/MCs:
Something in your army has to be able to kill a land raider, wraithknight, or riptide. These weapons are often close range or assault only but if you run into a land raider and all you're packing is autocannons and plasma guns you'll be very screwed.

Anti Horde:
You've gotta have something to kill your opponents infantry, it's usually these guys that'll be scoring the objectives and winning games so dealing with them is paramount.

Redundancy:
I don't care how good your unit of crimson hunter is at killing enemy flyers, if you get shot out of the sky right away by a triple vendetta IG list and you have nothing else to deal with flyers you sir are screwed. You need multiple units that can fill every one of these roles, taking units that can fill multiple if possible, ie a squad of 9 windrder jetbikes armed with 3 shuriken cannons can deal with hordes, capture objectives, and even take out MCs and light vehicles if they need to. With 9 S6 shots they can even try to take the last hull point off a flyer if nothing else can.

So don't look at your list and say "I have 1HQ 4 Trops 0 Elites 2 Fast Attack and 2 Heavy Support, I need more Elites, maybe some burna boyz! Look at your List and say "I don't think I have enough guns to kill flyers, maybe I should add a squad of lootas or a dakka jet. "
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It seems like Kevin Vanrooyen definitely has the best idea when it comes down to building lists and its something that I'm really starting to try and take into consideration more now that I have a bit more experience under my belt. I guess the big question then becomes when it comes down to redundancy, is it better to fill out one section of the FOC other than another. Should the FOC come into consideration when choosing which units to take to fill the rolls? Is it better to take heavy support anti-infantry rather than elite anti-infantry, for example? Should that be something to think about, or is it better to just try and fit the units that you think would work the best together?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,884 Posts
Nope, take the best tool for the job, weather you get your anti infantry from heavy support, elites, troops, or fast attack doesn't matter much. In my Imperial Guard army for example I get a lot of anti infantry power from a manticore (heavy support) while my Dark Eldar fill out their anti infantry with poisoned guns in (troops and transports) and use heavy support for anti tank and anti flyer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,236 Posts
What I'd like to know is what point level people think 2 HQs is too much. I know some books have really cheap choices, but generally they're 150-200 each. Do you find it almost necessary at 1500+, or is it all down to list construction? I always feel you can make anything work if you have the right strategy or build.
I find this to be the most interesting topic brought up. It really has to do with which codex you are using I feel.

For example, typically with Space Marines or their Chaos equivalents I usually run just 1 because I want points to spare elsewhere, but typically with Necrons I use both HQ slots because my HQ choices are amazing. That said I imagine that, if a Destroyer Lord opened a Royal Court, I would never take a regular Overlord again.

I've also found that most Ork opponents (I rarely run them) to use up both slots too since they're cheap and help the army overall. I've also heard old Sisters players looking at the new Codex and saying that the HQ and Heavy Support slots are the best ones. I haven't faced a competent Sisters player since 4th edition though, so I don't know if that's the correct route.
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top