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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I will be facing a 1000 point Witch Hunters army this Friday. What should I expect to have to deal with? Are there any general strategies or tactics I can use or that they use on a regular basis? I have not played against one before but am quite... scared... I guess you could say. Simply because they seem to be able to field anything I can plus power armor, rhinos, jump packs... :-/ (Which just about leads me to ask why I do not pick up the sisters as well.)
 

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Mad Modeling Master
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just face it as you would any army, guns a blazing. But dont let them get to close, they pack alot of flamer and those can really chem through IG. Also watch out for the fast attack Seriphim and be wary of the faith point thing. Ive played a few games where the random faith point ability has really almost turned the tide of war. Good luck and Emperor protect.
 

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They fight in a similar fashion as the Space Marines but they have a few psychic powers. Their real strenght if you ask me is in taking out psykers so don't field sanctionned psyker. Battle tank and Basilisk might be your greatest asset since they hit hard and penetrate the armour and can blow apart the vehicule with plenty of ease. Watch out for assassins, they tend to be deadly if used right.
Expect retributors, the female version of devastors(space marine) or havocs(chaos).
 

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The Fallen
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bah, knid of depends how he has them set up, classically WH are one of three things:

1 inqusition based - loads of frakey stuff, but all expensive, stand still and shoot and you should deal with in short order

2. Pure sisters (foot) - ok max on poer armour breakers, but generally you will out gun them, try and use cover to give you some saves and you should be able to tough it out because of better heavy weapons

3. Pure Sisters (mechanised) - pray he doesnt, in 1000 points that is probably about 8 vehicels, 6 of them rush up the field, a squad leaps out and obliterates one of your squads, you cant afford to lose 6 squads per turn, short of absestos armour, use something like split deplyment and try and give yourself as much room as you can to shoot his tanks


real problems:
1. Exorcists - if you have tanks, exorcists will eat them
2. bouncing serephim - these will break your squads and use hit and run t protect themselves
3. Faith - ask to borrow his codex, read up on it, then keep track of his faith points, they can win him games
 

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Along the lines of the above post, your biggest concern is massed bolter fire. Sisters generate the same firepower as marines, cost less, and can have two flamers. 170 pts of battle sisters will mop the floor with your squads if they get in close, especially since the rhino's can provide cover and block LoS. Unlike marines, sisters can easily buy their points back against guard.

If you see rhinos coming your way, destroy them ASAP. You can win the game as long as the sisters are more than 12" from you.

The other thing to watch out for is an assassin, specifically the Callidus. She can pop out anywhere and royally mess up your chain of command or vehicles. Though in a game that small, I doubt you'd see one.
 

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I agree that the callidus is the most fearsome assassin against the imperials since she has plenty of attacks, a neuro-shredder that acts much like a flamer and the worst thing about it is that she can deepstrike without scattering and assault in the same turn.
 

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Sparta!
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My most regular oponent is Sisters, and they can be quite challenging.
He generally runs the following list:
Cannoness - Jump Pacl, Blessed Weapon (ups the strength), Frag, Book of St Lucius (solid LD support for army, similar to Ld bubbles)
2 Sisters Squads in Rhinos - armed with either flamers or meltas, both with Veteran Sister Superiors
1 Excorsist - eats tanks, vehicles, expensive infantry, terminators etc.
1 Seraphim Squad - Inferno pistols, flamer - practically impossible to pin in cc
3 Death Cult Assassins - operate as independant 1 model units, nasty on the charge, have an invulnerable save.
I know this doesn't really impact on your game, but I'm going to list target priorities and general strategies against him in the hope you might be able to glean something from it.
Target Priority:
1. Rhinos
2. Excorsist
3. Seraphim
4. Whatever is most threatening.
The majority of Sisters players I have seen use a mechanised list - they simply don't have the ranged firepower (apart from 1 squad and a tank) to slog it across the board. If you take out the Rhinos in the first turn then you have limited the effectiveness of it, and the short ranged sisters now have to slog it across the board on foot.
Excorcists are nasty, they get a variable number of shots each turn and can rip through nearly everything. Most often they will hide this first turn in the hope of getting a juicy target in second turn, play the same game. Either offer it a juicy target and have squads ready to deal with it or don't offer it any ideal targets and then wait for it to come out.
Seraphim - every sisters army will include these girls. The entire unit generates faith, the get to roll an extra dice when making faith tests, they get hit and run, 2 close combat weapons and access to inferno pistols. Quite frankly they are one of the hardest units in the sisters list.
Sisters Squads - generally short ranged as they can't take heavy weapons. The will most likely include a veteran sister superior - she is the lynchpin of the squad.
A note on Faith: Only certain units/models generate faith. These include Heroines, Seraphim (the unit) and Veteran Sister Superiors (but not the rest of the unit). Every time one of these units/models dies the faith points are added back into the pool thanks to Martyrdom. There are 3 ways to deal with this:
1. Careful positioning. If they place the VSS to a side or in front position your units so that they are either one of a couple models in sight or range - this means that if they fail saves they have to remove her. Torrent of fire can also help.
2. Break the units. Hit them with everything untill they break - often the player will leave the VSS until last, but if they are broken or fleeing instead of destroyed they can't replenish faith.
3. Grin and bear it. Faith can be game winning, and it is really, really frustrating when a cannoness with a 2+ save suddenly makes it invulnerable. In this case, just ignore it and throw volumes and volumes of fire at them.
 

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Born from Tears of Angels
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My personal opinion is to load up on missile launchers as they have no 2+ troops of any kind, and their vehicles are Av13 max so you wont have to worry about heavy armor.

As previously said, basilisks and russes can help but exorcist might prrove to be a pain. The sucker gets d6 krak missiles a turn so better try to keep the vehicles out of its line of fire. I am also not a fan of AF sqauds and hellhounds since you are trying to stay away from his infantry, not come closer to it. Hellhounds dont ignore any saves so whatever they torch will probably be able to make its save. It is a good tank, but not in this case i think.

The only concern that I have involves seraphim, however in this case conscripts wont help as seraphims can easily outmanuver such a large infantry unit. So in my opinion, a unit of rough riders may proove usefull. They wont kill the whole squad, but once the seraphims are done killing the riders, the rest of your guard can be sitting there waiting for the combat to be over so they could blast them top pieces.

A minor word of warning, make those rhinos your primary target. Forget the exorcist, if you deploy your tanks correctly than there wont be a problem. Seraphims are priority number 2, as they usualy house the canoness.
 

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I think that the extremely general idea here is that you should still outnumber SoBs, and you should still have fire superiority. So shoot the heck out of what looks the most dangerous first and hope everything goes well.
 

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Archmagos
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I will be facing a 1000 point Witch Hunters army this Friday. What should I expect to have to deal with? Are there any general strategies or tactics I can use or that they use on a regular basis? I have not played against one before but am quite... scared... I guess you could say. Simply because they seem to be able to field anything I can plus power armor, rhinos, jump packs... :-/ (Which just about leads me to ask why I do not pick up the sisters as well.)
I suggest having some anti-infantry weapons in addition to low AP weapons because of their high shot output. With Faith, the Sisters saves can turn into invulnerables, so the effectiveness of massed anti-MEQ weaponry drops. Don't drop them altogether though; if the opponent runs out of Faith points, fails the test, or doesn't think its worth it to use Faith on a certain unit, then its nice to have low AP weapons.
Rough riders also tend to be less useful, because the opponent will probably use the invul-save Faith ability if they see you trying to charge with them.

Some things you should look out for:
-Faith
-Rhinos; these usually are carrying SoB squads with flame weapons
-Seraphim
-Exorcists, if they're in a position to threaten your tanks

These are expensive, strange, and unpredictable, but can still be annoying nonetheless:
-Arco Flagellants - sure, they can kill themselves, but if they get into your lines, they're difficult to stop
-Penitent Engines - Random and unpredictable, though they tear apart your units if they get into assault; Plus, they block line of sight and are sometimes used as threatening, yet somewhat expendable screens for Rhinos


As previously said, basilisks and russes can help but exorcist might prrove to be a pain. The sucker gets d6 krak missiles a turn so better try to keep the vehicles out of its line of fire.
I thought it would be useful to mention that although the strength is the same, Exorcist missiles shouldn't quite be underestimated as krak missile equivalents; they're slightly better
AP1 = More dangerous to tanks (I'm thinking Russes) than the krak missile is.
Plus, its dangerous to GKTs if you decided to ally any.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sounds like the same old story: Dealing with vastly superior and more effective troops and struggling with HtH prowess.

Ug... I do not know if its my pessimistic mood after a REALLY REALLY bad day at work or because its true but I am starting to think we could use a little leg up sometimes or I ought to just break down and make a freakin' generic marine army #9,812,743,281
 

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Archmagos
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Sounds like the same old story: Dealing with vastly superior and more effective troops and struggling with HtH prowess.

Ug... I do not know if its my pessimistic mood after a REALLY REALLY bad day at work or because its true but I am starting to think we could use a little leg up sometimes or I ought to just break down and make a freakin' generic marine army #9,812,743,281
Meh, Sisters can be a pain, but if you play your things well, they aren't so bad. My mass of carapace, plasma, and lascannons hasn't lost to them yet.

IMO, what Guard need is more viable mobility and something better than storm troopers. Some unit that could actually do a little more besides stalling assault units wouldn't hurt either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Meh, Sisters can be a pain, but if you play your things well, they aren't so bad. My mass of carapace, plasma, and lascannons hasn't lost to them yet.

IMO, what Guard need is more viable mobility and something better than storm troopers. Some unit that could actually do a little more besides stalling assault units wouldn't hurt either.
Yea I dunno... I am just a bit down right now.

I think I will be sure to use my many drop troops on them, seems like it may be worth it since I happened to see alot of jumping models in his case. I think I might just leave tanks at home again and go all infantry and sentinels. Would you suggest missle launchers or lascannons? I really like the stats of the cannon obviously but I always thought the cost was a bit high to spend on a cruddy BS3 guardsman squad. I have both available to me to use.

I do not take the carapace though I used to. I do not find it worth the cost in larger games.I do take a lot of plasma (favorite special weapon) though.



as far as mobility:
id like to see the chimera get some extra distance out of its movement or something to make up for its low side armor. or the addition of some kind of fast attack dune buggy/hummer thing with heavy bolters/misslelaunchers or something or even some crazy jump pack equipped guardsmen with special weapons or something. I dunno.

as far as cc concerns with guard:
I would just like to see our existing cc units/options improved or unhindered. Better save for Ogryns (even 4+ would be great) would go a LONG way to help their survival in my opinion. Let us keep the hand weapon AND laspistol when we take lances for Rough Riders (that would make them a great deal better if you ask me, being able to retain 2 attacks in cc) and/or give them the option to take carapace armor regardless of doctrines chosen. Increasing their WS wouldn't hurt either though I would rather see either/both of the previous two.
 

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as far as cc concerns with guard:
I would just like to see our existing cc units/options improved or unhindered. Better save for Ogryns (even 4+ would be great) would go a LONG way to help their survival in my opinion. Let us keep the hand weapon AND laspistol when we take lances for Rough Riders (that would make them a great deal better if you ask me, being able to retain 2 attacks in cc) and/or give them the option to take carapace armor regardless of doctrines chosen. Increasing their WS wouldn't hurt either though I would rather see either/both of the previous two.
I dunno. I personally think that the IG CC units aren't too bad if you use them in conjunction with the rest of your force. I don't think that it fits within the flavor of the IG to have CC units that can smash (or even hang with) the CC specialists in other armies. To me, a guard army fluffwise wins by having overwhelming firepower and numbers. CC units are generally used to counter enemy assaults so as to negate their weaknesses, such as low toughness and light armor for Rough Riders, low initiative and low mobility for Ogryns, rather than being able to charge through everything to get to grips with the enemy.

The one thing I do kind of snicker at is how an Ogryn's WS is better than a stormtrooper. I'm sure that some of it is a difference in styles. Where a Slaaneshi champion might fence rings around you, an Ogryn might just keep clubbing you until he hits, but both are skilled in their own rights. I would think though, that stormtroopers, with all the best training they can get, would be at least on par with an ab-human whose smartest members can maybe count to five or spell their own names.

Sounds like the same old story: Dealing with vastly superior and more effective troops and struggling with HtH prowess.
Most SoBs have profiles almost exactly the same as your average guardsman. The only differences being Leadership, BS and their armor save, so I don't know if I'd call SoBs vastly superior troops, especially in the HtH department. There are exceptions, and of course SoBs have power armor, but they can't bring the amount of guns to the table as IG can, nor can they field as much heavy artillery. The Excorcist is a pretty bad beast against our tanks, but if you're fielding basilisks under cover, it still needs LOS to hit. Seraphim are pretty scary, but the faster they move, the faster they'll be in range of your guns.

Anyway...

Would you suggest missle launchers or lascannons? I really like the stats of the cannon obviously but I always thought the cost was a bit high to spend on a cruddy BS3 guardsman squad. I have both available to me to use.
I like to have at least one AT squad with some lascannons and sharpshooters, but for the most part I'd rather save the points and go with missiles. Or if you want that lascannon to be a little more effective, you could always put one in a Veteran squad (or however many you want depending on your doctrines) and infiltrate them up a little to get a good shot at their armor. Another nice weapon to use in this case is the autocannon. Most SoBs run a fair amount of transport, and autocannons are aces when it comes to popping Rhinos, maybe even better than missile launchers. I'm not much for running numbers, but I'd imagine the extra shot helps out a lot with autocannons. Plus they've got the same range, but I wouldn't feel as wasteful about taking autocannon shots at a squad as I would with a krak missile.
 

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Master of Those Damn Durable Swords
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actually the EXO gets d6 Melta equivalent missiles as turn.

But being a guard AND mech sisters player, all I can say is at 1000 pts, he'll prolly run something like:

- 2 Mech sister squads (w/ a VSS, book of st lucius, and either 2 meltas, a melta and heavy flamer, or a flamer and melta),
- a Jumpy Cannoness (jump pack, book of st. lucius, cloak of st aspira [gives a bonus to the save], and either a blessed weapon [ups str and acts like a PW] or an eviscerator [i.e. chainfist])
- At LEAST 1 Exorcist
- At LEAST 1 Seraphim squad.

Here's an example of a 100opt list I'd make from my bog standard 2k list:

HQ:
Canoness, Jump Pack, Plasma Pistol, Blessed Weapon, Cloak, Meltabombs, Frags
Total: 137
Faith: 2

Troops:
Sister Squad
10X Sisters, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, VSS, Combiflamer, BoSL, Rhino, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers
Total: 219
Faith: 1

Sister Squad
10X Sisters, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, VSS, Combiflamer,BoSL, Rhino, Extra Armor, Smoke Launchers
Total: 219
Faith: 1

FA:
Seraphim Squad
7X Seraphim, 2X Twin Hand Flamers, VSS, Eviscerator, Meltabombs
Total: 206
Faith: 1

Heavy:
Exorcist, Smoke Launchers, Extra Armor
Total: 143


It comes to like 930 points, so there's room to increase the number of seraphim if I wanted, or swap in an Inferno pistol. I used this list a month ago against a 1k mech eldar list and it held it's own.

PM me if you have any specific questions
 

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Archmagos
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actually the EXO gets d6 Melta equivalent missiles as turn.
No, the Exorcist missile is sort of in its own class.
Its not a quite krak missile because it can punch through termie armor and cause penetrating on AV14, yet its not a Melta either because then it would be somewhat pointless to play conventional armor (besides the Monolith) against the Sisters.
 

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No, the Exorcist missile is sort of in its own class.
Its not a quite krak missile because it can punch through termie armor and cause penetrating on AV14, yet its not a Melta either because then it would be somewhat pointless to play conventional armor (besides the Monolith) against the Sisters.
No kidding! A melta missile with that much range? That'd be broken as all get out... Even against a monolith, the potential number of shots would make up for the (very slightly) lower strength, compared to a lascannon that is.
 

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durus
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The real secret against Sisters is targeting priority.

If he has a mech list, and you have a tank heavy list, go for the Exorcists first, then the Rhino's. If you have a troop heavy list, then go for the Rhino's first.

List making is very important too. Autocannons are really good at Taking our Rhinos and a Russ is much preferred over Hellhounds. Mortars can be usefull as well.

Don't be afraid to pile your troops into CC against Sisters. With close order drill you will actually strike first.

Good luck!
 
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