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How many of you think the Imperial Plasma Gun should have the option to choose two marks? One that overheats or one that dosen't overheat? It is stated somewhere that there is device that can regulate plasma output, at a cost of lower strength and intervals, effectively ending overheating. The optional Plasma would be one less Strength than the norm but wouldn't overheat. What is everyone's thoughts on the matter? I think you should be allowed to choose either at no points cost.
 

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Mr Commisar to you
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First off I'd get rid of those stats. Also the change you propose makes the weapon far better for not much loss. The whole point of the plasmais that it is unreliable.

I do see your point but if this change were to be made the change would perhaps need to make the bigger shot fire slower (ie. heavy option or somesuch something small like assault 1 not too sure on that though) while the smaller option woudl have to be something like at least ST 5 AP3 rapid fire. What you have suggestedis simple a way around plasma death. If you wish to take the fluff the whole way perhaps assault 2 at the stats above, although the weapon would need a price hike.

Interesting thought though

A
 

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How many of you think the Imperial Plasma Gun should have the option to choose to marks? That overheats? or one that dosen't overheat? It is stated somewhere that there is device that can regulate plasma output, at a cost of lower strength and intervals, effectively ending overheating. The optional Plasma would be one less Strength than the norm but wouldn't overheat. What is everyone's thoughts on the matter? I think you should be allowed to chooe either at no points cost.
I must admit I have often wondered why in 10,000 years they hadn't come up with a "dimmer switch"

Personally I have problems with troops using weapons that may kill them - I can see there being a morale factor - let alone the expense of replacing a genetically engineered Space Marine due to exploding weapons.

I had the same problem with the Eldar Scatter Laser - the most technologically advanced race in the Galaxy and they don't know how to make a gun shoot reproducibly (happily that's fixed)

I can sort of see the logic - Imperials don't understand the tech, prefer the "overcooked kill at all costs never mind the risk approach" - but I think that falls down when they give it to smurfs who are supposedly precious.

OTOH it IS supposed to be a volatile tech - FWIW I would be happy dropping it to the "standard" STR6 AP2 Rapid Fire (doesn't overheat).

In fact I tend to do that for friendly or solo games - but see below:

HOWEVER - that "could" lead to IG armies fielding mass plasma gunners at no risk - so to balance it - and because it IS "high-tech" - I would restrict IG Plasma to Elites - i.e. Stormtroopers and Veterans - so NO plasma in line platoons or AF squads.

Just a thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I think it would be fair to have a pts upsurge of 2pts, and You can choose either plasma gun, but you must state which one. I was also thinking, since it is a deivce that is attached, perhaps you could choose which plasma round to fire? (represented by taking off the device. Maybe str5 ap2 for the non overheating plasma gun? or upsurge to 15pts?)
 

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I think it would be fair to have a pts upsurge of 2pts, and You can choose either plasma gun, but you must state which one. I was also thinking, since it is a deivce that is attached, perhaps you could choose which plasma round to fire? (represented by taking off the device. Maybe str5 ap2 for the non overheating plasma gun? or upsurge to 15pts?)
I think the problem is it could all get far too "fiddly"

We already have ML & GL where we can choose what to shoot and other races have similar choices - if we have too many weapons where we have to think about the ammo select button every round it's going to slow things down too much??

If you consider the "ordered" races - eldar & tau - plasma is typically STR6 AP2 24" no "Gets Hot!" rule.

So I could live with the Imperium - as afundametally "ordered" society having the same, maybe at an increased points cost - or restricted to smurfs and elite types as outlined for the various SM, IG, WH & DH lists.

That would leave "extra killy but might go bang" Plasma for Orks & Chaos - neither of them noted for troop welfare arrangements.
 

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I suck... Maiden neck...
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I might just be weird here, but plasma (even when regulated) is a very unstable technology! Even when regulated there are deaths and severe burns involved when overheated. The fact of the matter is that another IG dead isn't much of a worry when you are facing terminators, heck I would turn it up to maximum if I was an IG facing a termi squad. for the SM, they have their armour and great thoughness and they will only be more than happy to risk their life to get a better kill-ratio (which is what they do on every mission), so I don't think they care much either. yet I must return to the argument that even dimmed plasma is very dangerous to handle, and so far TAU is the only one who has mastered it (With a noticable reduction in strength). I think it is accually good as it is now, and one might imagine that some Imperial forces (when we play) use the dimmed version (maybe one of those games where they all do good, and no overheating) and the full-powered one while taking important shots or if it is the last resort (those times when every plasmagunner dies in the first turn or two... been there)!

I think it would be like making rules for each bolter ammo out there (i know some are made for special squads, but think about making like 10 ammo choices for every SM in the army :/)
 

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I might just be weird here, but plasma (even when regulated) is a very unstable technology!
Well my take is that we have starships, warp drives, teleports and force field technology - and after 10,000 years plus we still blow ourselves up with our own damn guns?

... yet I must return to the argument that even dimmed plasma is very dangerous to handle, and so far TAU is the only one who has mastered it (With a noticable reduction in strength).
and Eldar

..I think it would be like making rules for each bolter ammo out there (i know some are made for special squads, but think about making like 10 ammo choices for every SM in the army :/)
I think you've hit the nub of it there - as I see it we can ask for one of two things;

The Imperium has (finally) made a "safe" plasma gun - but it isn't as powerful

or

We prefer the risk to get a better kill ratio and there's another trooper along in a minute anyway.


"Switchable Plasma" might be OK in say Kill Team or an RPG - but it adds too much into a 2,000pt brawl.

FWIW I personally use option 1 - but restrict it to SM and Elite types like Storm Troopers (both IG & WH/DH).
 

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I suck... Maiden neck...
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Oh yea. forgot about the other xenos...

I don't see how this whole 10,000 years has something to do with it. it not like the imperium is experimenting much, they are going BACK in record to find the old designs. Each time (roughly) they find rediscover a new pattern they seem to loose another one in there arcives and as to my knowledge they never did have a stable Plasmagun, so there is like no chance that they would make one now (even if there was, it would be long gone and very hard to find again)
 

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...to my knowledge they never did have a stable Plasmagun, so there is like no chance that they would make one now ..
I was figuring they could have maybe learned it from the Tau even if they hadn't learned it from the Eldar - I mean isn't that the whole point of things like the Ordo Xenos - learn the aliens secrets then eliminate them?

Bunch of slackers..

Oh hello Mr Inquisitor.... arrgh!
 

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I suck... Maiden neck...
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I was figuring they could have maybe learned it from the Tau even if they hadn't learned it from the Eldar - I mean isn't that the whole point of things like the Ordo Xenos - learn the aliens secrets then eliminate them?

Bunch of slackers..

Oh hello Mr Inquisitor.... arrgh!
The point of Ordo Xenos is to eleminate the xenos, not use their weapons! not learn from them! they are XENOS! Evildoers... and they don't even have a codex!
It should be a possibility to use some xeno weapons if they had a codex (like radical daemonhunters), but it would never be a mainstay in the normal tactica imperialis. if they did do research (and found out themselves how to do) Im not even sure that it would be allowed because the xenos did it first! We would all be tainted by xeno knowledge!
 

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The point of Ordo Xenos is to eleminate the xenos, not use their weapons! not learn from them! they are XENOS! Evildoers... and they don't even have a codex!
It should be a possibility to use some xeno weapons if they had a codex (like radical daemonhunters), but it would never be a mainstay in the normal tactica imperialis. if they did do research (and found out themselves how to do) Im not even sure that it would be allowed because the xenos did it first! We would all be tainted by xeno knowledge!
:D

Truly I repent my Lord Inquisitor - with this weapon I shall smite the xenos and heretics - or at the least go unto the God Emperor's side for eternity (albeit a little parboiled) truly a win-win situation for the Imperium!
 

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....coookies...
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You should have played for longer

You should all have played the game for longer. The present plasma gun rules are a simplification of the old rules where there were high and low settings for plasma weapons. I can't remember all of it but I am pretty sure that a plasma cannon could fire at St10 in the good old days.

Second edition used this setup if I remember correctly. If anyone has the rules from that edition they could check. Also that was back in the day of modified to hit rolls and range modifiers in shooting. Those were awesome days. Races had their own versions of weapons so there were like 4 different stat lines for the lascannon...

Ah well. Simple is what you get when kids need to play too. I don't mind really, the change didn't affect the dynamic of the game very much.
 

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durus
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Of course I would love it for competitve game play, but overheating is part of the fun!!!!:drinking:
 

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Speaking of which, the Ascartes chapters feature the same exact kind of plasma gun on their space marines and somehow, magicaly they get killed by them as well. So in the end, we have the emperor's best being equiped with lammmo weapons tha a guardsman would ware, which doesnt realy show their greatness other than their 3+ power armor. And the funny thing, its supposed to be an honor for a guardsman to die using a plasma gun because its supposed to be a "great sacrifice" for the emperor's cause. GW has quite an imagenation, how dumb do they have to be to come up with such rediculous nonsense?

Anyway, the most logical explanation for this is the humanity in 40k universe refuses to want to learn. Their only solution to any kind of failure, is to send more men with more guns with more tanks.
There is no such thing as strategy, and the only use for a human brain is to be carried in the head. Sadly, functioning isnt one of its primary jobs. So I realy doubt that they will get a reality check any time soon, and understand that the plasma guns need some fixing.

And lets ask ourselves, why is humanity getting its behind whooped by every single race in 40k?

Same thing as asking why are eldar constantly dying? Well, maybe if they would do less dancing and less poem writting when the universe is falling apart around them, and actualy do more fighting maybe they would be still alive.

WOW, sorry I get realy emotional and sensetive when thinking about stuff like this...8X
 

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Monkey Pirate
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Just because a plasma gun over heats on a Space Marine it doesn't necessarily mean the guy dies. I mean he could just lose a hand or get incapacitated in some way.

The unreliable nature of Plasma guns is, as Diggums put, half the fun. Leave them be.
 

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....I mean he could just lose a hand or get incapacitated in some way.

The unreliable nature of Plasma guns is, ... half the fun. Leave them be.
Well it's probably less fun if you're the one who ends up using a hook to wipe his .....

I mean what's the recruiting slogan now -

"Wanted - Imperial Guard Plasma Gunners - Join the Guard for a Better Life - the Next One!"




(Oh dear Emperor I'm taking this all seriously - departs banging head on table...)
 

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Anyway, the most logical explanation for this is the humanity in 40k universe refuses to want to learn. Their only solution to any kind of failure, is to send more men with more guns with more tanks.
That's the whole thing. Technology is controlled and guarded by the Adeptus Mechanicum. As long as they controll technology they can controll humanity. All new research and education in technological fields is heresy, a vile crime to the Machine God. The engineering done y the Adeptus Mechanicum is considered holy, and to deviate from it is paralell with praying to different gods than the emperor - heresy.

Rememer that almost half of the mechanicum turned traitor during the Horus Heresy. Yet the Imperium took them back into the fold, just because they had the monopoly on technology.

The empire doesnt recruit their soldiers. The soldiers of the Imperial Guard are forced int service. They are raised on military worlds whose only purpose is to provide soldiers. They are born into service in a society that knows no other way of life. it's not like they have a choice.

Every human in the Imperium of Man is a slave, wether he's a scribe, a solder or a miner. Noone hae a choice of how to live his life. Even the Inquisitors are slaves to their duties.

The 40k universe is darker than many of you seems to think.
 

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Monkey Pirate
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Well it's probably less fun if you're the one who ends up using a hook to wipe his .....

I mean what's the recruiting slogan now -

"Wanted - Imperial Guard Plasma Gunners - Join the Guard for a Better Life - the Next One!"




(Oh dear Emperor I'm taking this all seriously - departs banging head on table...)

Well given how easy it is for commanders to throw men away, yes. Guardsmen are disposable, sorry but in the 41st Millennium, there are no humanitarians. If you read some of the books based in the 40k universe you quickly get the sense that guardsmen are pretty much fodder. I think the book that really went about it best was 15 hours(I think that was the title). Hell at least if your given a plasma gun you actually stand a fighting chance against some of the nastier things out there.
And once again just because the gun overheats it doesn't mean the guy is flat out killed.
 

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Shrug, k...
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speaking of heresy and trying to learn from the xenos,
i always wanted some sort of army list i could use to make an army representing that separated human culture from the horus heresy series (haven't read the book in a year so their name escapes me). but they had the sagittars, hand-held laser bows/guns that weren't just flashlights, were trading and learning from the eldar, and had that honor-concept of letting those bugs live on a quarantined planet after defeating them.

their culture seemed like a utopia compared to the imperium.
 
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