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Has a monkey!
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've decided it is best if I just link the B&C thread, as there is little way to replicate the nature of the article with LO's code. It is far more polished and improved from there, and I'd still appreciate comments from you guys.

Here it is.
 

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Son of LO
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Really interesting fluff..

In a sentence, though, 'too much exoticism'.. You've got angels, chaos orks, malal, the revivicators, whole new inquisitorial factions, blood angels without the black rage (at least for a while,) not to mention roles in major events like the badab war as throwaway references. There's just too many coincidental, odd, unusual or uneccesarily epic things in one piece, and a lot of it doesn't really seem to have much point.

The revivicators in particular are just a bit of a head scratcher.. Firstly, they're an extreme radical group. Even most Thorians would have a deep, deep problem with their philosophy, and may well seek to kill them if they revealed themselves. Thus, they're secretive.. There's a reason not every Inquisitor lives to 800, and that's because the revivicators don't tell them how. Finally, given than marines do live that long anyway, what's to say the revivcators techniques (whatever they are.. I'd imagine they're quite extreme anyway and involve massive ammounts of bionic surgery and bodily alteration) will even work on marines? Does it really serve the narrative to even have them there?

I think, in general, you've treated Inquisitorial factions too much like coherent groups.. The Thorians don't sit around at the same table scheming to foil the schemes of the Monodominants at the other table.. All these people are individuals, they'll have their own take on Thorian philosophy and there is nothing which says they have to listen to or respect one another. Inquisitors band together in friendship groups for survival, they don't have huge factional meetings (not very often anyway) to decide their policy on various things.

I'm not a fan of some of the overly-epic imagery either but I'll agree marine fluff is prone to such things and takes well to it, so I'm not going to bash your personal style. In general, though, you could serve this a lot by decomplexifying it and removing some of the elements which are redundant or don't make too much sense.

I do think it's good stuff though, and the thought you've put into it really comes across.. While I'm not a big fan of the 'imperials with angels as chaos' cliche, you've actually made it palatable. ;)
 

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Has a monkey!
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Really interesting fluff..
I tried to make it so. :happy:

In a sentence, though, 'too much exoticism'.. You've got angels, chaos orks, malal, the revivicators, whole new inquisitorial factions, blood angels without the black rage (at least for a while,) not to mention roles in major events like the badab war as throwaway references. There's just too many coincidental, odd, unusual or uneccesarily epic things in one piece, and a lot of it doesn't really seem to have much point.
Interesting point. Some of that is to feed the reader to form theories about what the Chapter is up to- some will undoubtedly say they are Chaotic, others that they are still loyal, and still others will likely come up with crazy theories about the Outsider and the Old Ones. You know how it is.

But I understand how it can all be seen as too much. Especially below:

The revivicators in particular are just a bit of a head scratcher.. Firstly, they're an extreme radical group. Even most Thorians would have a deep, deep problem with their philosophy, and may well seek to kill them if they revealed themselves. Thus, they're secretive.. There's a reason not every Inquisitor lives to 800, and that's because the revivicators don't tell them how. Finally, given than marines do live that long anyway, what's to say the revivcators techniques (whatever they are.. I'd imagine they're quite extreme anyway and involve massive ammounts of bionic surgery and bodily alteration) will even work on marines? Does it really serve the narrative to even have them there?
You're quite right, actually. The reference to the Revivicators was kind of a throwaway reference from early on in my fluff research when I got into the various factions of the Inquisition. I may remove it to clear the Index up; there are plenty of other reasons for the Marines' longevity and the revival of the Black Rage.

I think, in general, you've treated Inquisitorial factions too much like coherent groups.. The Thorians don't sit around at the same table scheming to foil the schemes of the Monodominants at the other table.. All these people are individuals, they'll have their own take on Thorian philosophy and there is nothing which says they have to listen to or respect one another. Inquisitors band together in friendship groups for survival, they don't have huge factional meetings (not very often anyway) to decide their policy on various things.
On this I disagree slightly. I feel that while there's not a "Conference of Amalathians: For the Status Quo!" every decade on the twelfth of March, from my readings there is some level of cohesion and communication- and conflict- between the various factions. I suppose it could be toned down though.

I'm not a fan of some of the overly-epic imagery either but I'll agree marine fluff is prone to such things and takes well to it, so I'm not going to bash your personal style. In general, though, you could serve this a lot by decomplexifying it and removing some of the elements which are redundant or don't make too much sense.
Good to get this perspective; I've gotten a lot of quibbles over the details on other forums but not many who look at the overall picture. Thank you for the advice, I'll definitely take it into consideration.

I do think it's good stuff though, and the thought you've put into it really comes across.. While I'm not a big fan of the 'imperials with angels as chaos' cliche, you've actually made it palatable. ;)
Thank you. :)
 

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Honestly. I didn't read it at first. At a glance, we have at least 4 pages of fluff. Big paragraphs. Probably some good stuff there, but it's not something that you're going to read off the cuff if you're just skimming through the forum. Not so much a literary criticism, but it's a point worth keeping in mind. Perhaps a link to a more comprehensive explanation, with a slightly ...more concise version here.

As Mantis said, they're involved in WAY too many large scale actions. Scale them down a little. They're skirting a little close to the "rebel nice-chaos super-hardcore marines" continent for my liking as well. Having said that, they're on the plausible side. Like the Hellsing (the Anime, that is) of Marines. Close to the mind most of the time, but never quite crossing over.

You might be able to use Defilers as some sort of rare STC variant of dread. Seeing as they're somewhat nomadic/non centered, there's a possibility (perhaps over the course of seeking out undefended weapon stores, or seeking more dangerous areas that are safe as bases of operations) that they found some sort of design in a forgotten cache, Battletech style. Maybe something that the Ad-Mech were experimenting with. That's stretching things a little, but possible if you really wished to include them.
 

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Dusk Phantom
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Well I'm glad I decided to visit LO on a whim, I see you're up to writing again Imperialis. Good on you - I read the entirety of the Fluff and it seems good. But I feel like you're putting 'too much cream on your tacos' and by that I mean I feel like you want them to be more sensational, or exceptional by trying to flesh them out with cannon events rather than with their own. Maybe I'm not making much sense - since obviously you have put a lot of thought into their own journey and their existence and what they do throughout it. Hmm.. I don't know how to explain to you the feeling it gave me. Save to say that - I enjoyed your previous narratives better. Though of course those were stories and this is more of a summary or fact-sheet of events that have transpired in their existence. Correct?
 

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Has a monkey!
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm working on my IA as much as I can spare time for, but you might notice I haven't been on LO for a while. I lacked Internet and had to find a job.

So far as the length goes, well, it's an IA and those aren't really short. Not long either, but still. And the fluffy parts of an IA do tend to be the longest- it's the meat of it, after all.

@Adahn: I know, it's not a story. But it is going to set up the framework for my stories when I expand them out to the scale I want to do them in. And I am working on trimming some of the exotic bits out.

By the way, the folks over at the B&C know pretty much everything there is to know about IAs, so you might see this change more according to their advice. I need to catch up on all my forums though- I've been away for three weeks! Even if I were only subscribed to Librarium Online and not the B&C and Warseer, it would still be a titanic amount of catching up to do...

I'll be back in this thread later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Some new character pieces for your enjoyment. Also modified the Organization section of my Index.

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The First of the Chapter Lords

Upon the Founding of the Chapter, unrest was rife in the Imperium. The shadows preceding the Age of Apostasy and the Plague of Unbelief were falling, though the true holocaust was centuries away. Though many among the Angels Encarmine desired, of course, to remain with their Chapter, there were other, more ambitious souls who craved the opportunity to lead a whole Chapter of Space Marines against the nascent threats rising against the Emperor’s true rule.

Reclusiarch Malathion, of the 8th Company, was chosen to be the Chapter’s Master of Sanctity. As a young boy, his family had gone on pilgrimage to Terra, but never made it- they were ambushed by Dark Eldar pirates. Though he fought and killed several of the aliens, he came in danger of being overwhelmed, but the Angels Encarmine rescued him and slaughtered the alien interlopers. He showed great promise, and quickly rose as a Chaplain, but his unflinching belief in the Emperor’s true divinity- alien to the norm among Space Marines- kept him in a Reserve Company. Whether or not this also preceded his being requested to lead the new Chapter is in doubt, but he accepted the duty wholeheartedly.

Baphomen, Epistolary of the 3rd Company, was a wise and even-tempered mystic meant to add experience and a counterbalance to Malathion’s almost uncomfortably fervent devotion. He bore with him the Helionomicon, a book of wisdom the Angels Encarmine were both sorrowful to see go, but willing to see its knowledge empower a new generation.

After this the question remained: Who to take the mantle of Chapter Master?

Many warriors in the Chapter rose to the task, and for months, physical combats, strategic exercises, purity tests, and questions of faith were given to the petitioners. Eventually, only four remained, equal in every way. At the behest of the Angels Encarmine’s Master of Sanctity, the four were bid to keep vigil in the Chapel until the Emperor resolved the quandary.

For six days and seven nights the four brothers knelt on bended knee, praying silently to their Emperor to guide them in their decision. It was only on the dawn of the seventh day that Amitiel, headstrong Captain of the 7th Company, rose in a trance-like state and took the pulpit below the gilded statue of Sanguinius. As he did, each made the sign of the aquila and bowed lower.

Thus was the Grand Master of the Brotherhood of Wrath chosen, and the other three the Chapter Masters below him. Amitiel was a young, visionary, and dynamic leader, and his reign over the Chapter saw them fight their most defining conflicts. True to his heritage as an Angel Encarmine, he kept his warriors in action nearly constantly, and in battle they were as great and terrible as Astartes have any right to be.

These three Lords Illumine, as the Chapter knows them, are a mere step below Sanguinius in the eyes of the Chapter, prayed to as saints for guidance and glory.

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Brother Onyxior

The Banner of the Sixth Company was changed in M40 to an angel with a flail soaring, despite the ball and chain manacled to his feet and the massive book he bears with pride. This is in homage to Brother-Sergeant Onyxior, who bore a book with the name of each squad member he survived- no less than fifty-seven Battle Brothers had their names written in that tome, and each one bore down on Onyxior’s soul. Still he fought on until the Black Rage claimed him. He was locked in the Chamber of the Lost, deep in the Altius Rebirth, late in M40. His tome is carried still by the Reclusiarch of the 6th.

****

The Relics of the Chapter

The Chapter has seen its share of heroes, laurels and victories, and each piece of wargear, each relic, and each honor is cherished. Similar to their Blood Angel forebears, they hold the shrouds of their fallen heroes as holy. Peculiar to the Chapter is the practice of scribing minute script onto weapons, armor, relics, and other Chapter artifacts; this writing is invisible to the naked human eye but legible to the enhanced vision of the Astartes.

Any relic or piece of wargear, when not in use, will be in the Chapter’s Forge, where they will rest until one judged worthy to use them bears them into battle. For basic weaponry, the judging is often quick and by necessity only requires the approval of a superior. But some of the Chapter’s treasured pieces require far more scrutiny.

The most holy relics of the Chapter are from its origins. Borne by the Lords Illumine themselves, they are sacred beyond imagining. The full blessing of the Lords of the Chapter is required for their endowment to a Brother of the Chapter, and they are only ever wielded by those of that hallowed circle.

Reaping of Baphomen: This is a force scythe wielded by the first Grand Librarian himself. It is passed down to each Grand Librarian in turn, and it is thought that its power has only increased since the founding of the Chapter.

Helionomicon: This book of knowledge, also belonging to Baphomen, contains wisdom on every subject from litanies to tactics to esoteric Warp-craft. As knowledge is power, so is the Chapter enlightened and all the more deadly for this ancient tome.

Malathion’s Hatred: The Crozius Arcanum wielded by Malathion himself takes the form of a dual battleaxe-head gilded with the Aquila, but unlike many Crozii, it takes the form of a flail rather than a staff or mace. As with the Reaping of Baphomen, it is passed down through the ages to whoever holds the office of Grand Master of Sanctity.

Talons Furious: These were borne by Amitiel himself, and in the Chapter’s thousands of years of history they are said to have slain hundreds of thousands of foes. A pair of lightning claws created by Master Artificer Alumien himself, they are sleeker and even more deadly than a normal pair of lightning claws, and have earned a fearsome reputation across the Maelstrom, where the vast majority of the Chapter’s foes are found. Each of the thirty-two Grand Masters have had a right to wield them, but many also have used weapons of their own.

Band of Amitiel: This is perhaps the Chapter’s most revered artefact, carved by Amitiel himself after becoming Grand Master of the Chapter. The band itself is of black onyx, with a flat oval of white marble set into the front. The marble oval has two onyx bat wings, a golden halo, and a teardrop-shaped diamond chamber inlaid, iconic of the Angels Encarmine. Inside this diamond chamber is a single drop of the holiest substance to any Blood Angels Chapter- the blood of revered Sanguinius. It is to the deep sorrow and shame of the Chapter that this revered artefact was on Altius III when the planet was razed, and though they combed the planet, it was never found. A podium designed to hold it lies empty in the Chapter’s reliquary, but it seems the ring will never be seen by the Chapter again.

Chalice of the Sacred Blood: This sacred artefact emulates the Red Grail of the Blood Angels, and is carried by the Sanguinary High Priest. Its surface is heavily decorated and inlaid with rubies; the copies carried by the Sanguinary Priests are, however less ornate, still sacred to the Chapter and key to many rituals.

Tome of the Resting: This tome bears the name of every Battle Brother who has given his life for the Emperor. It is carried by the Supreme Master of Sanctity, and on the Day of Wrath when the Emperor returns, the Chapter will be reunited with their fallen heroes after their long-rest in the Altius of the afterlife. He also carries the Book of the Damned; every Brother of the Chapter who has turned from the Emperor’s light is, upon death, entered into this book; rather than expunging their failures, the Chapter chooses to remember them and learn from their failures. These poor souls will know only sorrow, darkness, and agony for all time.

Ritual Aegis: The sacred battle-armor worn by the Harbinger is a suit of white-gold artificer armor, sculpted in similar fashion to the Honor Guard armor worn by the Blood Angels; it is trimmed in true gold and ruby. The helm fittingly takes the form of Sanguinius’ death-mask. The bearer of this armor also has access to a fittingly ornate jump pack and war bike.

****

EDIT: Added some bits to this.
 

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Has a monkey!
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
This is a new bit that I came up with roughly a week or two ago.

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The Harbinger


The Harbinger is the Chapter’s 1st Company Wrathbringer, or Champion. The first to bear this title, Brother Raxus, took the tradition of upholding the Chapter’s honor in combat with enemy Champions to a new level, expanding the role of the Wrathbringer.

When a Wrathbringer of the Chapter attains this hallowed position, he no longer is known by his mortal name, for to attain this rank he must be skilled beyond imagining and, it is said, completed the Harrowing- a series of feats and surpassed tests, unknown outside the Chapter Lords, that would destroy even most Astartes; an earthly name no longer suffices. The Harbinger is at the behest of the Lords of the Chapter only, and is occasionally sent out alone to commit honor killings and overt assassinations in which he blazes a path of destruction to his target; he also acts as the Chapter’s executioner. In battle he will often act alone, but has been known to lead brother Marines or even a squad of Wrathbringers into combat.

The Harbinger wears a suit of ornate power armor, the Ritual Aegis, into battle, and bears whatever weapons he chooses from the Forge (save the Talons Furious and the weapons of the Librarium) or his own weapons, improved and perfected by the Chapter’s Artificers.

****


Feel free to peruse the above posts too, it's all been altered.
 

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Thinks he's a big deal
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You could have skipped the extremely long (but totally worth it) description of the chapter and just kept the Patton quote. It's pretty much the same.

I mean hey, if HE had angels on the fields of Europe, he could have taken it singlehandedly too. Probably would have welcomed them as signs that God was with him (not that he needed any signs to believe it...)


Very well written, even if there are some artistic liberties taken with the Inquisition. But hey, who said that we're talking about the upper echelons of that organisation? THAT would be grandiosity. The leadership of the Inquisition deals with cults on hundreds of worlds, or stuff that the Grey Knights or Founding Chapters bring them. Not much else. They don't have the time to.
 

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Has a monkey!
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Not much else I can say other than AWESOME! :p
Thank you! :beer:

You could have skipped the extremely long (but totally worth it) description of the chapter and just kept the Patton quote. It's pretty much the same.

I mean hey, if HE had angels on the fields of Europe, he could have taken it singlehandedly too. Probably would have welcomed them as signs that God was with him (not that he needed any signs to believe it...)
Yeah, I have a tendency to perhaps say too much. I suppose the quote would be good. I just wanted to stress that they aren't your typical Chaos Chapter.

And yeah, Patton could have taken Europe with some angels on his side; hell, he could have done it with just another pack of cigars and some gasoline...

Very well written, even if there are some artistic liberties taken with the Inquisition. But hey, who said that we're talking about the upper echelons of that organisation? THAT would be grandiosity. The leadership of the Inquisition deals with cults on hundreds of worlds, or stuff that the Grey Knights or Founding Chapters bring them. Not much else. They don't have the time to.
I'd be interested to hear more about this. Way I have always had it described to me, the Inquisition is like a million cells of investigators who have, through various means, eyes and ears damn near everywhere. While some sources vary (Dark Heresy vs. Inquisitor, for example), there's enough room in 40k for much anything and I don't see them as necessarily incompatible.

What specific liberties did I take, and if so, are they unwarranted?
 
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