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Hive Fleet Pandora
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5,068 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Nowadays, I'm seeing more and more people use squads in sizes of 5 (or the minimum) as opposed to full 10-man squads. Maybe part of it is due to transport capacities, but mainly they do it for tactical reasons.

I myself often use 5-man squads:

5x Grey Knights w/2x incinerators in Grey Knight Land Raiders

5x Inquisitorial Storm Troopers w/2x meltas in rhinos

5x Space Marine scouts in Land Speeder Storms

5x Space Marine combat squads

5x Long Fangs


Often I see the following:

5x Fire Dragons in Wave Serpents

5x Bike squads

5x Terminators

5x Celestians

5x Nobs/Meganobs


I'm thinking this is because the new trend is mech-spam. Maximize the transports, minimize the squads.

What do you guys think?
 

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LO's Shadow Captain
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12,783 Posts
New? Not at all. If anything, 5th edition made '10' the new '5,' and now people are starting to head back into the smaller squads. It was common to have minimum sized units in 4th edition, and now that codices have been putting weapon or transport restrictions on units (e.g., must have 10 models to have a heavy weapon or certain transport), the 10 man units are far more common than they used to be.

For the Space Marines, 5 man units are common due to combat squad sizes; in a lot of units, you either buy 5, or you buy 10, and it's just easier to manage 5 sometimes. I don't think 5 man units are replacing 10 man units or even gaining in popularity, necessarily; it used to be like that, before 5th edition, so if anything the game is moving back towards where it was during 4th edition.

Mechanised lists are also not a new thing for the game. In 4th edition, to be competitive you almost always had to go mechanised. 5th edition made footslogging and less vehicle oriented lists more competitive, but the nature of vehicles hasn't changed much so mechanised still tends to be the preferred list type.



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Hive Fleet Pandora
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
For the Space Marines, 5 man units are common due to combat squad sizes; in a lot of units, you either buy 5, or you buy 10, and it's just easier to manage 5 sometimes. I don't think 5 man units are replacing 10 man units or even gaining in popularity, necessarily; it used to be like that, before 5th edition, so if anything the game is moving back towards where it was during 4th edition.
Hmmm...I didn't really think about that. It does seem 5 was the norm in 4th ed. space marine lists. Back then, you could get a 5-man squad w/heavy weapon and a special weapon. I swear I miss those marines.

Mechanised lists are also not a new thing for the game. In 4th edition, to be competitive you almost always had to go mechanised. 5th edition made footslogging and less vehicle oriented lists more competitive, but the nature of vehicles hasn't changed much so mechanised still tends to be the preferred list type.
On the contrary, I think it's the opposite. 5th have made footsloggin less competitive, what with transports being harder to destroy with glancing hits. But the thing that has remained the same is that mech is still the more competitive build.
 

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LO's Shadow Captain
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On the contrary, I think it's the opposite. 5th have made footsloggin less competitive, what with transports being harder to destroy with glancing hits. But the thing that has remained the same is that mech is still the more competitive build.
However, you have the Run rule and a huge abundance of cover saves and other special rules that make footslogging more viable. This isn't to say mechanised lists have become less competitive, if anything they, too, have become more competitive (at least, some) for just the reasons that you've stated, but footslogging has definitely become more competitive since 4th edition.

Mechanised lists getting a bonus doesn't necessarily equal footslogging lists taking a hit, after all.



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Premium Member
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I remember 6 being the typical squad size in 4th Ed. Overall, footslogging has taken a hit in 5th Edition, partly due to the encouragement of Alpha strikes (Drop Pod, outflank, turboboosting scout movement) and partly to an overemphasis on short-ranged weaponry (necessitating faster movement to mitigate range issues).
 

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durus
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I have to agree about the increased competitiveness of Mech lists and hense the decreased value of footslogging lists. Yes you get more cover saves, but with the new vehicle damage tables, Mech armies are much better than before. It's just damn hard to kill lot of armor these days..........:freaked-out:

The new game/tourney scenarios also put an emphasis on movement, outflanking and reserves, so a static HW squad of marines or Guard is less appealing than a vehicle that can move and shoot. This makes Special weapons in vehicles a better option vs. static Heavy weapons than before.

I'm not sure I completely agree that there is a huge trend to small squads because of Kill points. You don't want to give the opposing general more and easier to kill units than before. That is the reason that the new Codex's like IG give you the option to merge small squads into big ones, or just take larger squads like Orks. However.......smaller squads do give you more flexibility and can let you react better to situations that present themselves on the battlefield.

My two bits...........
 

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i think people are stripping down to 5 because of everything being mech


you don't need your units to be as survivable as long as you can get them where you want them and pull off that one single strategic shot with them rather than marching across the field with 3-4 shots at whatever is in range


I prefer bigger squads because i prefer marching across the field shooting a lot. unfortunately mech is king and it's been ruining a lot of the "more fun" aspects of the gameplay
 

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Hive Fleet Pandora
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Unfortunately, Kill Points will always be a by-product of any spam lists, esp. mech-spam. For these lists to be really effective, you would have to have a lot of redundancy (i.e. vehicles). In KP games, these lists would require a crafty general, but overall you're looking to beat the opponent so badly (i.e. table) that KP's wouldn't even matter. Take for instance, a couple of lists below:



1500 Daemonhunters (mine)
Grey Knight Brother Captain - Incinerator
5x PAGK's - 2x Incinerators
5x PAGK's - 2x Incinerators
5x IST's - 2x flamers (GKBC here, in LRC)
5x IST's - 2x meltas, Rhinos w/EA, smokes
5x IST's - 2x meltas, Rhinos w/smokes
GKLR - EA
GKLR - EA
GKLRC - Smokes


2000 Mechdar (I played against)
Eldrad (or Farseer)
5x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/TL-Brightlance
5x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/TL-Brightlance
5x Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent w/TL-Brightlance
10x DA - Exarch, Bladestorm, Wave Serpent w/TL-Brightlance
10x DA - Exarch, Bladestorm, Wave Serpent w/TL-Brightlance
5x DA - Wave Serpent w/TL-Brightlance
Fire Prism
Fire Prism
Fire Prism


2000 Immolater-spam
Canoness - Eviscerator, BoSL
5x Celestians - 2 Meltaguns, Immolator
5x Celestians - 2 Meltaguns, Immolator
5x Celestians - 2 Meltaguns, Immolator
5x Dominions - VSS, 4 Flamers, Immolator
5x Dominions - VSS, 4 Flamers, Immolator
5x Dominions - VSS, 4 Flamers, Immolator
10x Battle Sisters - VSS, BoSL, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino
10x Battle Sisters - VSS, BoSL, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino
10x Battle Sisters - VSS, BoSL, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist


They are vey balanced, make very efficient use of 5-man squads, and any of them can easily table the opponent.
 
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