[Blackadder]

Hi all, as title, this is a 2.5k eternity king army I put together, what do you think?

Lord/Heroes

Archmage - Upgrade, Book of Hoeth - 275

Sorceress - Upgrade - 115

Spellsinger - Upgrade - 115

Master - BSB, Crown of Command, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak - 142

Troops

20 Corsairs - AHW, Standard - 230

20 High Elf Spearmen - Standard - 190

5 Dark Riders - Shields, Standard - 95

5 Silver Helms - Shields, Standard - 125

10 Deepwood Scouts - Hagbane Arrows - 160

10 Deepwood Scouts - Hagbane Arrows - 160

8 Cold One Knights - Standard - 250

8 Wild Riders - Shields, Standard - 234

15 Swordmasters - Standard - 205

15 White Lions - Standard - 205

Total = 2501.

What do you think? I'm not looking for an ultra competative list here as it's mostly just for use against my mate for a bit of fun (I do all the elven armies so it's for doing a big battle once in a while by combining what I've got), that said I would like it to be able to hold it's own so if there's any really awful stuff feel free to point it out!

Cheers.

 

[d_k_patt]

Hi erm to much in core drop 5 silvers they won't do anything really nothing take 2 units of 5 dark riders with rxb that's a better use of points.

You lack any real blocks of troops you won't be able to break steadfast unless your opponent is msu you will loose.

Why so much magic I know the rules have changed but surely 24 spells is not going to be used? Unfortunately I don't have any experience with the new magic rules so can't advise yo much.

It's very interesting unit choices and sure will look good but sadly I don't think it will play well

 

[Blackadder]

Thanks for your reply - I was beginning to think no one would answer haha.

Points taken about the list, I've tried it a couple of times against my friend's lizardmen, and although it can work with MSU since he uses only 2 blocks of infantry about 30 strong provided you swarm a unit, the whole thing relies on being able to hold up a unit while the other is destroyed, and even then it can fall to bits if they pass their ld (which they did on a double 1, much to my frustration last time I tried it!).

Anyway, here's an updated version, what do you think of the following?

Spellweaver - lvl 4 (lore of light) - 220

Spellsinger - lvl 1 (lore of light) - 80

Sorceress - lvl 1 (lore of light) - 80

Mage - lvl 1 (lore of light) - 85

Master - BSB, Crown of Command, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak - 142

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30 Bleakswords - Standard - 280

30 Spearmen - Standard - 280

5 Dark Riders - Shields & crossbows, musician - 110

5 Dark Riders - Shields & Crossbows, Musician - 110

20 Deepwood Scouts - Hagbane Arrows - 320

8 Cold One Knights - Standard - 250

3 Warhawk Riders - 135

30 White Lions - Standard - 400

Total = 2492

I should probably explain about the wizards thing, I was having a look around on the web for tactics, and one thing I did come across was something called the light coven/council of light thing, which aims at having as many wizards as possible and spamming banishment as much as possible... I've no idea how effective it is but i reckon it'll be a fun list to try at any rate, plus lore of light has a few other nice spells too. If it doesn't work I can easily cut points from the wizards (I also had a list which included a draglonlord in mind see).

Other than the above what do you think? The Swordsmen and spearmen are there to hold down the enemy, whilst the White Lions are there to act as a hammer. (alternatively of course the lions could be an anvil whilst the swords and spears flank). The Dark Riders are there as chaff (and to clear chaff) along with the warhawks, whilst the scouts and knights are the monster hunters.

 

[CaptainSarathai]

Spellweaver - lvl 4 (lore of light) - 220
Spellsinger - lvl 1 (lore of light) - 80
Sorceress - lvl 1 (lore of light) - 80
Mage - lvl 1 (lore of light) - 85
Out of curiosity, why the shift to Mage for +5pts, when it doesn't grant any different rules over the Singers or Sorceress? Also, while a coven can be powerful, remember that you are also (by Rules-as-Written) forced to use the End Times Magic when playing an Elf Legion list. You can overrule this with houserules like most people do, but personally I feel that the combined list is just as offensive, and they should both be banned together. You figure that out for yourself and decide.
Light Covens, traditionally, are very powerful. However, they require protection. Banner of the World Dragon will be huge for these characters, as is getting Wardsaves and sinking them into the back ranks of a regiment, by using Commands.

Master - BSB, Crown of Command, Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak - 142
Would like a Ward more than the Crown of Command. Otherwise, meh.
It might be better to use a High Elf Noble than a Master. He has access to the Shield of the Merwyrm, which is a 4+ Parry Save (similar to a Ward) for very few points.

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30 Bleakswords - Standard - 280

30 Spearmen - Standard - 280
If you're looking for a Hammer and Anvil, there is no need to use Spears over Bleakswords.

5 Dark Riders - Shields & crossbows, musician - 110
5 Dark Riders - Shields & Crossbows, Musician - 110
Yep.

20 Deepwood Scouts - Hagbane Arrows - 320
Nope. Why? These are Special, and cost as much as your other elite infantry. If you want to shoot people, use Dark Elves. Use Dark Riders - they can move and fire. If you don't need to move, you can get twice as many DarkShards. If you need Poisoned Arrows, you can take GladeGuard bowmen. The point is: use your Core points to fill in your shooting. Save Special for the truly powerful stuff. These guys shine in Wood Elf books because the Wood Elves have nothing else to really contest them. Their whole army is shooting>combat, and the ability to move and fire is important for them. Not for the other armies, or for mixed lists.

8 Cold One Knights - Standard - 250
Silver Helms. Again - use that Core where you can. CoKs aren't bad though, and I definitely give them the edge over Dragon Princes in most cases.

3 Warhawk Riders - 135
Just use Eagles from the HE book.

30 White Lions - Standard - 400
Best unit in the list.

Total = 2492

Thoughts in blue!

 

[Blackadder]

Thoughts in blue!

Thanks a lot , I've got an ammended list below. In answer to your question on the 85pt mage - it was because I wanted to play what I felt to be a combined army, so that meant actively trying to keep cherry picking to a minimum without hamstringing me - I'm happy to pay 5pts for fluff essentially. Incidentally, a note on the magic items for each army... has it been confirmed if we can take items from individual army books yet? I don't yet have the khaine book due to funds (although I have enough pics off the internet to do the magic and have the army list), but looking around I got the impression that army specific items weren't allowed any more, as the EK/PK/A were all different armies - in any case that's why I've been avoiding them thus far, but I'll have a word with my mate about it anyway to see if we want to house rule it (and i'm sure he'll change his mind when I take BotWD lol).

Anyway, onto the list!

Lightweaver - lvl4

Lightsinger - lvl1

Lightsorceress - lvl 1

Lightmage - lvl1

Noble - Heavy Armour, Shield, BSB - 101

Dreadlord - Heavy Armour, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Might, Black Dragon - 471

20 Spearmen - Banner - 190

20 Bleakswords - Banner - 190

15 Glade Guard - Hagbane Arrows, Musician - 190 OR 10 Glade Guard - Hagbane Arrows - 150

15 Glade Guard - as above - 190 Or 10 Glade Guard - Hagbane Arrows - 150

5 Dark Riders - Crossbows, Shields - 110

5 Dark Riders - as above -110

8 Cold One Knights - Banner - 250

3 Warhawks - 135 (might drop these altogether depending on how they do, as I'm not sure 3 will do anything besides be some tough to shift chaff, but I prefer them over eagles).

30 White Lions - Banner - 400 - noble goes here.

12 Swordmasters - Banner - 166

Total - 2497 OR 2507 (dragon alternative - red stuff was cut out for dragon, blue stuff added in).

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Incidentally, would you mind also reviewing a list I put together that has a dragon in it? The dragon list is the black text + the blue text, whilst the list without the dragon is the black text and red text.

As for tactics well I figured that considering my mate uses blocks of about 30 saurus warriors that 30 white lions would be able to mulch a unit without support, so they're going to be taking one unit, while the bleakswords, spearmen and flanking units of swordmasters, knights and what have you take on the other. Glade guard are used for monster hunting or pinging wounds off stuff with hagbane arrows, dark riders are chaff/harrassment, as are the warhawks. Noble goes with the lions to make them ld9 stubborn, wizards sit in the other core units as bunkers so they can keep spamming s6 or 7 banishment (depending on whether or not I have a dragon). and finally, in the dragon list, it hunts monsters as well as acts as a flanker.

What do you think?

Thanks.

 

[d_k_patt]

The major issue I have is for a few points more you get dark shards with shields which are for all intents and purposes bleak swords with rxb it is one of (if not the best) use of core in dark elves dark riders challenage for the top spot but to be honest my core is 30 with shields 10 wide 3 deep (love they get martial prowess) they reform 5x6 when in cc for an anvil the rest goes into 2 units of 6 dark riders which at 2500pts is your core. Your special as cap said should be saved for the very best , white lions and I have personally alot of love for cok they have never let me down and now they can get martial prowess even better 5 wide 2 masters general and bsb front and a level 2 beast in second rank or if points are tight a level 1 dark just for the strength boost and the unit is 15 in total 5x3. I used this before the boost of martial prowess .

 

[Blackadder]

The major issue I have is for a few points more you get dark shards with shields which are for all intents and purposes bleak swords with rxb it is one of (if not the best) use of core in dark elves dark riders challenage for the top spot but to be honest my core is 30 with shields 10 wide 3 deep (love they get martial prowess) they reform 5x6 when in cc for an anvil the rest goes into 2 units of 6 dark riders which at 2500pts is your core. Your special as cap said should be saved for the very best , white lions and I have personally alot of love for cok they have never let me down and now they can get martial prowess even better 5 wide 2 masters general and bsb front and a level 2 beast in second rank or if points are tight a level 1 dark just for the strength boost and the unit is 15 in total 5x3. I used this before the boost of martial prowess .

I see what you mean but to be honest I've never really been keen on crossbowmen, or at least, they've never performed very well for me. I used to take them regularly, between 10 and 20 of them, and in terms of shooting they'd never earn their points back - I think it's a combination of them needing 4-5+ to hit nearly all the time (I usually attack so they've got to move), and most of the armies I play against (Dwarves, lizards, Bretonnia etc) having decent armour and so laughing off crossbow bolts anyway. Buying them to give them shields, in my view, would effectively be like buying more expensive swordsmen...might as well just get swordsmen - only reason I took crossbows on the riders is so they can actually be an annoyance/provoke some charges, which is more difficult to do if they're not a threat in combat (since there's only 5 of them) and they're just trying to slow down your marching (which again against lizards, dwarves and bretonnia is unlikely).

Thanks for your input though! As a matter of interest do you think a dragon is worth it at these points? I played a game recently where a wood elf dragon lord took out an old blood on carnosaur for e.g. so I see it as being a pretty good monster hunter, but if it's gonna hamstring the rest of the army then there's little point.

 

[d_k_patt]

Tbh unless it's a combined stats dragon they are rarely worth it as they die to easy and it's still a tough 3 elf on top.

Tbh my rxb ate supported by warlocks for soul blight which normally means I wound on 3 or 4 and a unit of 30 is putting down 60 shots even on average you should be hitting with 20 use high magic to boost bs and your hitting alot more I have seen a turn of shooting drop 20 chaos warriors and when closed in cc the often hold for a turn or 2. If you want a cheap anvil take 60 high elf spears job done. 2 blocks of white lions and your golden

 

[Blackadder]

Tbh unless it's a combined stats dragon they are rarely worth it as they die to easy and it's still a tough 3 elf on top.

Tbh my rxb ate supported by warlocks for soul blight which normally means I wound on 3 or 4 and a unit of 30 is putting down 60 shots even on average you should be hitting with 20 use high magic to boost bs and your hitting alot more I have seen a turn of shooting drop 20 chaos warriors and when closed in cc the often hold for a turn or 2. If you want a cheap anvil take 60 high elf spears job done. 2 blocks of white lions and your golden

Thanks for that - I'll probably just try both lists and see which I prefer - Fragile though they are (especially to artillery), you just can't beat (in my view), having a massive dragon!

Ah... that'll probably be why mine didn't do so well - they didn't have the support to buff their crossbows. Thanks for the suggestion there...i'll certainly give that one a think!

 

[d_k_patt]

Oh yeah no beating a dragon I converted my elf to ride the forge world carmine dragon it's beautiful

I would take a dark elf just because it's easier to get that 1+ amour save with sea dragon cloak enchanted shield giants sword tali of endurance iron cure icon. Vamps on dragons are better though

Look forward to hearing how it goes

 

[Blackadder]

Quick update - I finally got around to testing my list (or a very similar version of it anyways) against my mate's lizards who had (roughly) the following:

Slaan lvl 4

Skink priest lvl 2

Oldblood

30 Temple Guard (slaan here)

30 saurus warriors (oldblood here)

2 units of 30 skinks with blowpipes (priest in one of these)

Ancient steg with giant blowpipe things

and a Bastiliadon.

Long story short i managed to win more or less even after the white lions...and the lightweaver...AND the noble BSB got themselves magiced to death because I forgot to dispel a remains in play spell. The light coven was fun (even completely shutting down the slaan's magic phase one turn due to net of Amyntok!) but it was difficult to get lots of spells off, especially after I lost my lvl 4, so I think some buffs like the book of hoeth and miscast defence might be an idea too... changes to make I think include the Banner of the World Dragon, and maybe swapping the weaver for an archmage with the book of hoeth...

The dragon...I'm not sure on... it was good, pulverising the ancient steg...but other than that it was a great big distraction, having things chase it, turn to face it etc, and there were no war machines to kill it this time around... I'll probably play it a few more times but I think it might be shelved in the long run. The alternative list I had (which was changed from the above) included a loremaster of hoeth (who would know every spell as far as I know) as well as 2 units of archers and 2 bolt throwers...more defensive but certainly more fire power.

Thanks for the help!

EDIT: I've gone and done a re-think of the dragon & light coven list (having decided to separate them now), may I ask what you think of the dragon list?

Spellweaver - lvl 4 (uses high magic) - 220

Noble - BSB, Enchanted Shield, Heavy Armour - 104

Dreadlord - Heavy Armour, SDC, Great Weapon, Talisman of Pres., Ironcurse Icon, Black Dragon 510

20 Bleakswords - Banner - 190

20 Spearmen - Banner - 190

5 Dark Riders - Crossbows, Shields, Musician - 110

5 Dark Riders - as above - 110

5 Ellyrian Reavers - Bows, Spears, Musician - 105

12 Deepwood Scouts - Hagbane, Musician - 202

15 Swordmasters - Banner - 205

30 White Lions - Banner of the World Dragon - 450 (Noble & Weaver here)

2 Great Eagles - 100

Total 2496

- aim of the game here, seeing as I like to make things all comers is target saturation to allow the dragon to arrive unscathed. The plan is for warmachines, missile troops and the like to shoot at the scouts and cavalry who are going to be very close to them first before they turn their attention to the dragon, by which point (hopefully) they won't be able to kill it and it'll be on them. Eagles can also function like this or go as a kind of screen for the dragon (i'll experiment on that one to see which is best) to stop it from being shot/charged prematurely.

The Lions are my main killy unit, and I plan to use the weaver to cast (among other things) walk between worlds to make them ethereal and move even faster as well as regain wounds via the wood elf high magic lore attribute (1 successful cast = 1 token, 1 token = 1 unsaved wound can be ignored, and this can be stacked for multiple saves), which should make the lions very difficult to kill via magic with their 2+ ward and this thing as well.

Swordmasters will be a flanker unit, and will probably march up behind the spearmen/bleakswords so they don't get shot to bits, whilst the spearmen themselves hold down a unit for the swordmasters to finish off.

Dragon is a monster/warmachine/character hunter, as well as a flanker. It'll be used to help the sword-master/spearmen combat, and could also be used to take out smaller lightly armed units...

I know dragons aren't the greatest, due to the points sink, but they're good fun and awesome when they work! If the above helps the dragon list to be somewhat viable then I'm all for it! I've also been tinkering with the light council list too, but decided to make that fully defensive (above high elf and dark elf infantry + 2 units of 15 glade guard and 4 bolt throwers and 4 wizards lol), I'll probably playtest both and see how they do.

 

[d_k_patt]

Hi there well done on your victory.

What points level was he using that's quite a small list for a 2.5k lizards?

Also how did net of amontyk close down a magic phase as that's defence against range weapons?

If your really that's desperate to take a dragon take the 825pts version of malikieth he has lore of dark and fire and is a combat monster is almost immune to cannons and gives all units with martial prowess another rank to fight in?

Yes if you playing khaine magic lore master gets all spell, apart from a slann with wondering deliberations (which has single handedly made him the best caster with khaine rules) no one else has access to that much magic one of my fav tactics is him with armour silver steel book of hoeth in a unit of white lions and using the end times metal spell for the 2+ ward nobody is killing that unit.

Again I think dark shards with shields are better than glade guard for defensive lists being only a point more than basic glade guard by the time you put magic arrows you way more expensive and dark shards have a 5+ and 6+ parry I never leave home without my block of 30 I have not seen an enemy yet that can weather such a storm.

Right the list

So your bsb is so badly defended needs a ward plan and simple.

White lions decrease to 27 put bsb here and pop Mage in archers away from combat.

You would be better with 2 units of lions over swords masters and really your core units need to be bigger I can't see them lasting more than one round of combat

Could I make a suggestion

Drop some bits and get a dark elf master on cold one gw bsb sea dragon cloak armour of destiny and pop him in a unit of 9 cold one knights I would drop the swords masters to do this.

Also warlocks and sisters now get all spells in their lores so between them you could get all death, dark, life and beast spells for a mear 250pts worth considering as I think khaine is more favourable to multiple level 2's over one level 4 unless it's a slann with all lores lol

Hope this helps