[Polaria]

The new Kill Team rules came out as exclusive digital stuff. Now in this case I think its a damn shame if you can't get them printed out somewhere or later included in some supplement because they are pretty fantastic. The new Kill Team rules bring the Kill Team concept to 6th edition and basically fix all the problems and easy abuses the old Kill Team rules had.

The biggest changes on old Kill Team are:

- Limitations on what models can be taken: no Flyers, no W4+ or HP 4+ units, must take a minimum of 4 infantry models, no vehicles with total AV 34+, no 2+ saves and so on...

- Limitations on specialist abilities: There are several "classes" of specialists and each has a different list of USRs to choose from. As no two specialists may be of same "class" this limits combinations available. Also, only infantry models can be specialists so no Shrouded Land Speeders anymore

- Leaders: All Kill Teams have an infantry model as a leader. Leaders get bonuses for Break tests and "Warlord Abilities", which are rolled from Kill Teams own table

- Every Man for Himself Changes: You can't split fire anymore. Or attacks. Brotherhood of Psykers doesn't work anymore. Things like that, which are basically bthere to limit broken combos and extra strong cheese from happening.

- Missions: Yes. There will be Missions and VPs just like in normal 40K. Kill Team is no longer played just for Tabling.

 

[SJPhillyVT]

- Every Man for Himself Changes: You can't split fire anymore. Or attacks.

What do you mean by this? Each model isn't its own squad anymore?

 

[Math]

I've always had a problem with Kill Teams implementation of every man for himself. It makes weapons that are supposed to excell at infantry killing worthless because volume of fire becomes meaningless.

One question: When you say infantry do you mean just plain infantry or are jump & jet included? Both in terms of specialist and minimum requirements.

 

[Klajorne]

What do you mean by this? Each model isn't its own squad anymore?

I think (though I don't remember now), you used to be able to split your attacks to any viable target. So, for example, if you were shooting a heavy bolter (3 shots), you could attack 3 different targets so long as they were all in range. Now you need the "Split Fire" USR to be able to do that. Pol can probably give a proper rundown on the matter.

I'm glad they updated these, but my personal beef with the old Kill Team rules was still being restricted to minimum squad sizes. Though, this was back when Necron Warriors were 17 points a model, and came at a minimum squad size of 10. There was no option to add anything else, to bring variety. Even now, if you wanted to bring Sterngard (who are always the best KT option), you don't have many points left to bring any other unit type.

Now, granted I am just spoiled by the Unofficial Killteam Rules, because it fixes those problems, and has additional stuff I like such as campaign rules and such. Obviously, I'll be sticking to that.

I am glad that GW spent a little time on this, though. Everybody complains that there is no "Entry Level" 40k, and the Kill Team rules are great for buying a box or two of infantry and making a game of it. Basically, you can introduce someone to the game for the cost of a Tactical Marine box.

 

[pilot00]

I am glad that GW spent a little time on this, though. Everybody complains that there is no "Entry Level" 40k, and the Kill Team rules are great for buying a box or two of infantry and making a game of it. Basically, you can introduce someone to the game for the cost of a Tactical Marine box.

Conversions, you forgot the conversions! Why everyone is forgetting the conversions?

 

[Math]

Conversions, you forgot the conversions! Why everyone is forgetting the conversions?

Personally its because I only know one person who bothers with WYSIWYG and well, they lose games because of it.

 

[pilot00]

Personally its because I only know one person who bothers with WYSIWYG and well, they lose games because of it.

Eh? Well you can do some pretty good WYSIWYG conversions without getting over that rule. Whats the point of having a kill team if it hasnt have a personality of its own?

 

[Math]

Eh? Well you can do some pretty good WYSIWYG conversions without getting over that rule. Whats the point of having a kill team if it hasnt have a personality of its own?

Well its a conundrum because while I agree its nicer to have a characterful kill team most players I know change their lists like they change their minds. I only know one person dedicated enough to the modeling and painting aspect of the hobby to have enough variety to pull off both. The joke is he's one of the guys who doesn't change his lisst easily or often resulting in frequent losses.

He actually gets pretty moody about it and makes complaints like "I'm just trying to have fun, why is everyone being so competative"? When I tell him "these people aren't being competitive, you have just run the exact same list for the last 8 games in a row and everyone is super familiar with it" he just ignores it and keeps whining.

 

[pilot00]

Well, he is a heastrong type of guy then, probably. You can build a nice kill team and be what you run too. Will it take time? Yeah it will, after all painting and modeling always does.

 

[Klajorne]

Well its a conundrum because while I agree its nicer to have a characterful kill team most players I know change their lists like they change their minds. I only know one person dedicated enough to the modeling and painting aspect of the hobby to have enough variety to pull off both. The joke is he's one of the guys who doesn't change his lisst easily or often resulting in frequent losses.

He actually gets pretty moody about it and makes complaints like "I'm just trying to have fun, why is everyone being so competative"? When I tell him "these people aren't being competitive, you have just run the exact same list for the last 8 games in a row and everyone is super familiar with it" he just ignores it and keeps whining.

Yeah, you have a pretty mean meta where everybody's always list tailoring around each other. I have some friends that are always doing that. More gamers than hobbyists. They view their models as game pieces rather than characters. Nothing wrong with that, but that guy needs to find another group, because he'll never be happy there.

Where you change that (if anybody even wants to), is by running campaign games, where people are keeping their list for a length of time, and there's a reason to invest some time and effort into the models, because you know you're going to be using them for the next month.

Kill Team works out really well for this, because it's a small investment everybody can make, and since you're only using something like 10 models per side, and you play them for a month long, it's easy to enforce WYSIWYG, or give soft scores around painting/modeling.

Anyways, sounds like it's one person that's having troubles with the group, and he's probably better off changing, or leaving.

 

[Polaria]

What do you mean by this? Each model isn't its own squad anymore?

Each model is its own squad but unlike in old Kill Team rules models cannot divide shooting or close-combat attacks between multiple targets.

I've always had a problem with Kill Teams implementation of every man for himself. It makes weapons that are supposed to excell at infantry killing worthless because volume of fire becomes meaningless.

One question: When you say infantry do you mean just plain infantry or are jump & jet included? Both in terms of specialist and minimum requirements.

To be exact, the rule is "four non-vehicle models", so yes and yes.

I think (though I don't remember now), you used to be able to split your attacks to any viable target. So, for example, if you were shooting a heavy bolter (3 shots), you could attack 3 different targets so long as they were all in range. Now you need the "Split Fire" USR to be able to do that. Pol can probably give a proper rundown on the matter.

Exactly. In new Kill Team "Split Fire" gives you ability to divide attacks between two targets.

Now, granted I am just spoiled by the Unofficial Killteam Rules, because it fixes those problems, and has additional stuff I like such as campaign rules and such. Obviously, I'll be sticking to that.

Actually the unofficial rules are being left behind at the moment because, even though they add a great deal of more depth to the format, they are not on-par with 6th edition codices and USR's, making them far easier to break than the new Kill Team and needing more "additional house rules" to figure out the latest codices and all the USRs.

 

[pilot00]

I was glad to see the kill teams comeback in an official capacity with 6th cause not only you have the oportunity to play a fun low cost game, you get an incentive to build scenery and campaigns out of it.

 

[Klajorne]

Actually the unofficial rules are being left behind at the moment because, even though they add a great deal of more depth to the format, they are not on-par with 6th edition codices and USR's, making them far easier to break than the new Kill Team and needing more "additional house rules" to figure out the latest codices and all the USRs.

Curious: did he say this somewhere? I never saw any mention of that over on Warseer.

 

[alvenom]

Conversions, you forgot the conversions! Why everyone is forgetting the conversions?

This! This exactly. This is the most I've been excited about 40k since... well, probably since sometime during 2nd ed. I wish there'd been a cool set of campaign rules included in the rules however. Be great to see all the IQ28 blogs I follow pick it up too.