So Im thinking about starting a Tau Army once Ive completed my Chaos and was wondering are kroot essential in a Tau army?
I never leave home without at least one squad of Kroot in my Tau Army. They give you the very useful benefit of infiltration (especially in woods where they rock!) or even just the threat of it, their shooting isn't at all bad and they can give a reasonable account of themselves in HTH, especially if they charge and/or have kroot hounds (Init 5) with them. Point for point they've just got to be worth it.So Im thinking about starting a Tau Army once Ive completed my Chaos and was wondering are kroot essential in a Tau army?
Hah that’s a funny post, no one will ever come near Fire Warriors eh.I never user kroots and I don't see the need of it. If your a good tactician, no one will ever come near you firewarriors that will be able to crush them. Even against orks do I kick their green b*** back to outerspace before they even come close. Railguns allow you to take care of bigger transports as most of other guns can deal with light stuff. Killing infantry is never a problem with fire warriors, nom matter of many friends they brought with them. Killing tyranides is a bit harder, but once y'ouve established priority, you will easily bring them down to thin numbers. Against Space marines or chaos, I never saw a kroot do anything usefull other than slow them down a little (remember I also play chaos). Against eldars, they might do some good, that is if your fire warriors are pretty unlucky.
I still need to be convinced about those.
I can tell you one thing that Kroot can do that nothing else can and I was able to do it in a game last night - against Chaos, of all things! Because they can infiltrate I deployed my Kroot along the back edge of a wood, which was about 8-9" from the front edge. On turn one I was able to fire 10 shots from the Kroot (given their 24" range") into the Chaos squad some 18" in front of them and managed to take 2 down. Next turn same detail, but only managed to kill one. On my third turn the Chaos squad were in rapid fire range and I took out another 2. The Chaos squad shot back at me with pistols but the 4+ save allowed me to make all my saves bar one. Next time I got in another round of shooting taking out another 2 marines before losing 6 Kroot to 3 flamer templates although I still passed my morale test. The Chaos marines then attempted to charge with his surviving 4 marines and fell short, whereupon I withdrew out of the wood (at full speed and continued to fall back, managing to take down 1 more marine with the 6 shots I had from my surviving 3 Kroot.I never user kroots and I don't see the need of it. <SNIP> Against Space marines or chaos, I never saw a kroot do anything usefull other than slow them down a little (remember I also play chaos). Against eldars, they might do some good, that is if your fire warriors are pretty unlucky. I still need to be convinced about those.
Actually, for the record, Brother, unless the Fire Warriors have a Shas'ui, the Kroots leadership is just as good - or as bad, depending on your perspective!The only area in which they're really lacking is leadership, and Firewarrior leadership really isn't much better.
Yup, you're spot on there. Which is the main reason I never take a Shaper or go for the 6+ AS - for all those extra points I just go for more basic Kroot!!The Kroot have a leadership upgrade option, too, but it's just a worse buy. For what it's worth, though, it takes more to provoke panic tests on Kroot squads, as they tend to be larger, and they stay above half longer for the same reason. Those are worth something.
Well necessary depends on how you use em, army configuration and other factors, I would class my 2 units of Kroot and hounds as absolutely necessary, in fact I would go so far as to say indispensable. They do so much more than Fire Warriors. To be truly effective FW's need a Devilfish and at XXpts this soon makes more than two units an expensive option, however Kroot can infiltrate, which gives them the opportunity to get good field position very early in the game, they have effective shooting and can more than hold their own in assaults (and are to be feared if Kroot hounds are taken).Kroot are not necessary at all. Some love them. I run a very succesful Tau army, the current list of which has never been defeated (all 6 times I've played it, heh.), which relies entirely on no kroot.
I just don't like them. They are too slow for me. That being said, they do become necessary to fill out points at the 2,500 point levels.
But some like them, I just don't.
Funny, I don't use kroot and I seriously doubt the players I play against need to get better. (And I can easily say that I have played a vast plethora of people either in real life or on VASSAL; the ones online being in the majority lately.)To those who haven't experienced the awesomeness that consists of a Tau wave of death in CC, you need to play against better players.
Reever, I think that he means that players who know how to close down on an army are a real threat to Tau, while you may have been lucky enough to not have it happen to you, it is never the less a real threat, one which Kroot are very good at handling.Funny, I don't use kroot and I seriously doubt the players I play against need to get better. (And I can easily say that I have played a vast plethora of people either in real life or on VASSAL; the ones online being in the majority lately.)
Quite the opposite Riki, its happened to me more times than I'd like to count; but then again I won't use kroot most of the time for a specific reason so my own tactics have to be that much different in order for my Tau to have that much more of a chance...:CReever, I think that he means that players who know how to close down on an army are a real threat to Tau, while you may have been lucky enough to not have it happen to you, it is never the less a real threat, one which Kroot are very good at handling.
As always, my dear Rikimaru, your words lack some delicacy other players naturaly tend to apply to their answers. Also, you assume I've answered without thinking (reasoning), which is knowing me poorly. This matter aside, there is a way to do things in order not to be overwhelmed by tyranids. Here's how it goes :Hah that’s a funny post, no one will ever come near Fire Warriors eh.
I hate this sort of unreasoned post, you just dismiss a fantastic unit but give no reasons why or support your claim that FW are never touched with evidence as to how you accomplish this feat (I know I cannot guarantee my FW's will not be caught, I am good at preventing it but it happens). Instead of asking to be convinced (there is plenty of evidence, tactica’s, articles proving how good Kroot are) you should be convincing us why they are apparently so crap according to you.
My post did not lack in delicacy, you simply wrote of a great unit and basically gave no supporting evidence to support it, apart from your 'I am great at kicking everyones butt' and 'I am great at kicking Ork butt' points. I did not assume anything, your post was unreasoned in the answer it gave.As always, my dear Rikimaru, your words lack some delicacy other players naturaly tend to apply to their answers. Also, you assume I've answered without thinking (reasoning), which is knowing me poorly. This matter aside, there is a way to do things in order not to be overwhelmed by tyranids. Here's how it goes :
50% Fire Warriors, rubs hands in glee.First, keed in mind that I always field more than 50% onf my points in troops, in this particular situation : Fire Warriors. I also assume the current scenario is a seek and destroy one, not a hold objective or something fancy like that. Finally, I don't have 2000 points of TAU, my usual games are at 1500 points with this army. Soon, my ranks will be bolstered with more models, but for now, i'm building my new ork army.
Fine my 3 units of Stealers get to deploy (usually at 24") and then get a free 6" move, then they get a 6" move and then fleet of claw (13" min, 18" max which leaves not very much ground to cover, so turn two assault usually).Deployment :
The fire warriors will be deployed at 8" or 9" from table edge, everything else behind. If possible most of my units will be deployed in cover, with a line of sight on what's comming.
If you can see the Stealers then fine shoot em, because while your shooting them the Warriors and Hormies are closing in, shoot the Hormies and the stealers are Ok. Basically whatever you shoot there is always going to be something to rip into your lines, when that happens your in trouble because Stealers are non synapse, and the Hormies will always be in range of synpase.1- Firearriors, a lot of them, shoots at Geenstealers first, while the ML Shas'ui shoot his markerlight at the BFG winged Tyran. Usualy, this take away one or two full squad of whatever's comming. The pathfinder also shoot all their ML at the winget tirant.
Fine send the Devilfish, it is only going to stop one unit, IF I decide to attack it. I have no Carnies and I definatelty would not be wasting time on Piranhas with Stealers, they will be busy eating FW's and XV8's. You are assuming I would follow your tactics, well sorry but I have many years of experience with this lsit and I am not that gullable.My devilfish are sent forward as mobile firebase and speed bump. You won't need to move your troops anyway. My single hammer head is using submunitions to blas away packs of small bugs that would require my fire warriors a target priority test in order to shoot. And sorry Riki, but I don't have a sky ray, so my pirannas are responsible for seeker missiles launching. Speaking of those, they will also go forward, with explicit intention of shooting at carnifex and other beast. The idea is to have some squads of geenstealers or else to go for the pirranna and waste some precious time trying to kill something they can't lock in CC so I will be able to shoot them in turn 2. As for the big monster, I leave them to my XV8 Crisis suits. I start with the small ones and end with the big ones as they are slowers.
It really does not matter if you wound the Tyrant, simple fact of the matter is that plenty enough will survive and rip a hole through your lines, if your FW are set up on foot it is even better for me., and about these marker light I've scored on the tyran, well this is a good idea to call for seekers missiles !!!
Thats just it though there will not be any distance between your units and the Nids, at least 80% of my list will be in your lines. That is the beauty of the list, it is fast and when it gets to your lines your shooting is either stopped or severly restricted. Most units will be in CC so will be immune to being shot from Pirahnas or whatever.Turn 2 :
Depending of the distance and number of lesser lings and of the amount of cover between them and my units, some of them might move backward. All that can shoot will continue to shoot at the biggest units of small bugs remaining. Same for the rail gun which will still use the submunitions. The suits will continue to shoot at the big monster. It my pirannas are still alive and kicking, they will start to kill either the warriors or the carnifexs.
Believe me by turn three you will be struggling to survive, the only Tau list that has a chance against this type of Nid list is a fully mobile list with Kroot help. As far as the big monsters goes, I only have one because I do not need Carnies.Turn 3 :
Then, if everything goes according to plans, whatever should reach my line will be weak enough to be killed by my Fire Warriors. My suits continue to dispose of these big monsters, with the help of the railhead and maybe the rmaining piranna (you might be surprise how players tend to leave these alive no matter how annoying they may be). If needed, all my fire warriors will go close up and personnal with the small bugs and will get rid of those.
I can guarantee you have not done it against a list like mine, the list is in the Nids army list forum check it out here and come back to me with a plan to combat it, PM me if you like and we can stop hijacking the thread http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/tyranid-army-lists/57700-2000pt-tweaked-list.html.I've done this twice and it worked perfectly. It works even better against godzilla nids, where there are less bug and more monsters. And this is if the battlefield is flat and empty, because I've developped some neat strategies using the field as a huge trap in order to maximise my firepower.
The Kroot would be very handy at tying Nid units down while other units re-deployed. If hounds are taken they are on a par with Hormies and even their shooting is decent. They can infitrate to prevent Nid units racing down the field and can take down Synapse creatures (or prevent them from keeping up with the non synapse creatures and thus prevent them racing forward or even ending up lurking.Now, I must admit that a line of kroots might do as well as firewarriors, but they would have to be deployed at 12" to be able to shoot a the nids during first turn, or be infiltrated closer and risk giving an assault move to many nids units, not to mention locking them in close combat, which would prevent me from firing at them.
Those two last points are why I wouldn't use kroots against nids. That being said, I wouldn't mind if someone want to use them.