Land Raider?

2058 Views 35 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Renosaurus, Feb 7, 2006

Renosaurus

Discussion Starter · Feb 5, 2006

Greatings again, fellow deamonkin,

I just wanna know, what upgrades are worth it on a Land Raider? I was thinking about Deamonic and Parasetic Possession. Should I do this?

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

Andusciassus

· #2 · Feb 5, 2006

I'm inclined to say no. Daemonic Possession will take away the ability to have troops inside and after all that is a major point with a transport. Parasitic possession is a tempting upgrade and some seem to use it quite a lot, I don't.
SInce the Landraider is a very expensive piece as it comes I would not go overboard on the upgrades. If any maybe Smoke (if there is no enemies in sight) and Extra armour to be able to turn when the need arises and it has been stunned.
But since I've seen them go to chainfists and other CC-attacks I would consider the Warp Flame, but I am far from sure.

brushman

· #3 · Feb 6, 2006

I usually try not to make the already expensive transport more expensive. All I give it is smoke and extra armour and that seems to work fine.

Remember, I'd only use the Land Raider in higher point games because in smaller games it can really eat away points.

Ben

Renosaurus

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 6, 2006

I wanted ti transport 5 termi's in it, but I want too keep my list 1500 pts. SO I'll get rid of the landraider, but then how can I get my termis in the front line? of shouldn't I use them in a 1500 pts list?

Lordofchange

· #5 · Feb 6, 2006

Terminators are fine in 1500 points, but you must remember not to "overcorrect" - a terminator squad can do the work of at least two standard close combat units, so this should be a big portion of the close combat section of your army (unless of course, you're playing world eaters). As for getting them there, you have the choice of the land raider, or deep strike. Deep striking's only really a good idea if they carry shooting weapons, as therefore at least they can do a little damage on the turn they come in. Often, if you're planning on deep striking, it's a good idea to give one of them a combi-melta, and then teleport behind an expensive tank - that way, the melta portion can fire, blow up the tank, and then the inevitable losses that the terminators will suffer can be taken with impunity. It's unlikely you'll lose more terminators than the value of the tank. Then, the next turn, they can charge whatever they want in the enemy lines, and any enemy unit that charges them, they should be able to deal with. If they drop straight into the thick of it, don't expect them to last too long when your opponent really takes action against them, but until then, they should act as a pleasing distraction unit that will do A LOT of damage.

As for the land raider, daemonic possession is a no-no. The Raider always needs a full belly of troops, otherwise you're dropping a large portion of it's points off. In effect, you're paying twenty points to knock off about 50 points of the land raider's usefulness. Parasitic isn't really worth it for a land raider, as it's already hard as nails. As people have said, just take extra armour and smoke launchers, and maybe coruscating warpflame or living vehicle if you're afraid of combat damage, although anything hard enough to destroy a land raider in combat (terminators, daemon princes, carnifii, etc) aren't gonna feel pain from that.

Hope that helps!

LoC

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Monsieur Cartier

· #6 · Feb 6, 2006

CWF isn't too much use in a WE list, is it LoC?

Land Raiders are hard enough as it is. Parasitic posession is not a cheap upgrade, but seeing as most of the time weapons will be glancing and causing non-stacked effects (when 2 immobilised changes to 1 immobilised and 1 weapon out) it can prove to be invaluable. It depends what kind of army you're up against- missile launcher heavy lists will eventually take their toll, so it could prove the most useful upgrade you ever take.

Lordofchange

· #7 · Feb 6, 2006

monsieurcartier said:
CWF isn't too much use in a WE list, is it LoC?

Well Shas'o doesn't actually say what list he's using, and Andusciass mentioned warpflame so i expanded on that point whilst covering the eventuality that he's using world eaters. Simple logic, and answers Tzeentch player's questions as well.

LoC

Renosaurus

Discussion Starter · #8 · Feb 6, 2006

Look, I don't play world eaters, but I DO play khorne. my hq is a Khorne killing machine, using berserker glaive. but I use Raptors. If I wouldn't use Raptors, WE would be what I play. I want my army to do the next: I want a fast army which gives a damnhard punch in CC, with backup fire againts tanks and such. my HQ moves 12' and assaults 6', same goes for the raptors. I have 2 obliterators for backup fire, and I wanted to use the LR for 2 purpuses. I wanted to use it as backup fire, and at the same time transport my termi's to the enemy.

my hq:
Chaos Lord (220 pts)
Equipment : Deamonic Armour, Flight, Mutation, Resilience, Stature,
Furious Charge
Gifts of Khorne: Mark of Khorne, Berserker Glaive, Rage of Khorne

Soviet_Tau_Commander

· #9 · Feb 6, 2006

Unfortunatly, you can't combine the Glaive with Flight or Speed. Also, You have too many Demonic Gifts on your Daemon Prince.

As for the Land Raider: Don't give it any upgrades. It's already expensive and I believe comes with Extra Armor already.

Renosaurus

Discussion Starter · #10 · Feb 6, 2006 (Edited)

Soviet_Tau_Commander said:
Unfortunatly, you can't combine the Glaive with Flight or Speed.

Why can't I combine Glaive with Flight?

Quote from the codex (page 48 upper left corner):
The BErserker glaive is a two-handed power weapon, which can only be carried by an IC. The bearer cannon then join another unit, be accompanied by followers or ride a steed.

now, if you read the rules of Deamonic Flight, it doesn't say ANYWHERE it's counted as a steed. so I don't see any reason why I can't take them both.

Soviet_Tau_Commander said:
Also, You have too many Demonic Gifts on your Daemon Prince.

it's not even a deamon prince, but OK. (well, not sure bout that, maybe it'll be a deamon prince)
Armour = 20 points
Flight = 20 points
Mutation = 15 points
Resilience = 10
Stature = 15

total: 80 points. page 14 lower left corner of your codex says a Chaos lord can have up to 100 points of Deamonic gifts, so again, I see no reason why I can't use them all.

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Andusciassus

· #11 · Feb 6, 2006 (Edited)

Well, they changed a couple of wordings in later prinings of the Codex:Chaos and those are right now not available as FAQs, as far as i know, but non the less the "official"-version of the rules.

The Glaive cannot be combined with any movement modificators such as speed or flight. That came with the third printing of the codex and it's also written in the Wargear book.

Daemonic weapons also counts towards the wargear limit. So there are the points that makes him illegal in this aspect.

Oh, and if you are not aware, they changed the Obliterators so they are now T4(5), so they are quite "easily"instakilled.

Hate to be the bringer of bad news...

EDIT: Your gyu is most certainly a Daemon Prince. If he has more then 50 opints of gift (which he have) or has Daemonic Stature (which he also have) he'll be a Daemon Prince. It's on p22 under the Chaos Lord entry.

Renosaurus

Discussion Starter · #12 · Feb 6, 2006 (Edited)

Andusciassus said:
The Glaive cannot be combined with any movement modificators such as speed or flight. That came with the third printing of the codex and it's also written in the Wargear book.

Ok, I can't help that, though I would want to know where I could find that rule, cause it's not in the official GW FAQ. s*cks, but I can understand why they changed it, IF they did.

Andusciassus said:
Daemonic weapons also counts towards the wargear limit. So there are the points that makes him illegal in this aspect.

Ok let's add the stuff I didn't add:
Furious charge: 15 points
Berserker glaive: 40 points
Rage of Khorne: 15 points
Deamonic gifts: 80 points (wich flight still in it)

Total: 150 points of wargear. why is this illigal? Again, page 14 lower left corner: a chaos lord may spend up to 150 points in the armoury, of which 100 points may be deamonic gifts. Illigal? Tell me why.

Andusciassus said:
EDIT: Your gyu is most certainly a Daemon Prince. If he has more then 50 opints of gift (which he have) or has Daemonic Stature (which he also have) he'll be a Daemon Prince. It's on p22 under the Chaos Lord entry.

That entry says: As a guideline a chaos lord with more then 50 points of deamonic gifts can be claimed to be a deamon prince and should be modeled appopriatly.

IF you chooce it's a deamon prince, you should model it like that. but you can claim it to be a deamon prince. you don't have to do it.

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Lordofchange

· #13 · Feb 6, 2006 (Edited)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andusciassus
The Glaive cannot be combined with any movement modificators such as speed or flight. That came with the third printing of the codex and it's also written in the Wargear book.

Ok, I can't help that, though I would want to know where I could find that rule, cause it's not in the official GW FAQ. s*cks, but I can understand why they changed it, IF they did.

Well blow me, he's right - they've taken it out. That now makes the glaive uber-cheesy, but oh well. Anyone who wants to check up - http://uk.games-workshop.com/chapterapproved/faq/assets/csm-faq-v4-0.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andusciassus
Daemonic weapons also counts towards the wargear limit. So there are the points that makes him illegal in this aspect.

Ok let's add the stuff I didn't add:
Furious charge: 15 points
Berserker glaive: 40 points
Rage of Khorne: 15 points
Deamonic gifts: 80 points (wich flight still in it)

Total: 150 points of wargear. why is this illigal? Again, page 14 lower left corner: a chaos lord may spend up to 150 points in the armoury, of which 100 points may be deamonic gifts. Illigal? Tell me why.

Daemon weapons and gifts of the gods count towards the limit towards daemonic gifts. Meaning that your glaive and your rage of khorne pops you over the daemonic gifts limit by 35 points - you'll have to drop at least 35 points of gifts to make that legal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andusciassus

EDIT: Your gyu is most certainly a Daemon Prince. If he has more then 50 opints of gift (which he have) or has Daemonic Stature (which he also have) he'll be a Daemon Prince. It's on p22 under the Chaos Lord entry.

That entry says: As a guideline a chaos lord with more then 50 points of deamonic gifts can be claimed to be a deamon prince and should be modeled appopriatly.

IF you chooce it's a deamon prince, you should model it like that. but you can claim it to be a deamon prince. you don't have to do it.

I believe it says should be CONSIDERED a daemon prince - a vital difference in wording. This means that he must be considered a daemon for all anti-daemonic wargear - daemonhunters wargear, halved weapon skills etc. So it is important.

LoC

Renosaurus

Discussion Starter · #14 · Feb 6, 2006

No, I don't get it. I have to loose 35 points? why, Rage of Khorne is only 15 points, and I only have 80 points of deamonic gifts, why do I have to clear 35 points then?

Lordofchange

· #15 · Feb 6, 2006

Shas'O RenoSaurus said:
No, I don't get it. I have to loose 35 points? why, Rage of Khorne is only 15 points, and I only have 80 points of deamonic gifts, why do I have to clear 35 points then?

*Sigh*

I'll say this nice and big.

DAEMON WEAPONS COUNT TOWARDS THE GIFT OF THE GODS LIMIT. THE GLAIVE IS A DAEMON WEAPON, THEREFORE ADDS 40 POINTS TO YOUR LIMIT, AS SHOWN BELOW:

Deamonic Armour, Flight, Mutation, Resilience, Stature,
Furious Charge
Gifts of Khorne: Mark of Khorne, Berserker Glaive, Rage of Khorne

15, 20, 10, 15, 20 - these are the values of your basic daemonic gifts, jumbled so the points values of the specific wargear are not revealed. It comes to 80 points.
15, 40 - these are the values of your other wargear, the glaive and rage - coming to 55 points.

Now, we all remember that 55+80 = 135. Meaning you are over the limit for daemonic gifts. In the codex, it states you can have 100 points of daemonic gifts, and you have 135. It is illegal.

LoC

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Reactions: 1

Andusciassus

· #16 · Feb 6, 2006

Deamonic Armour, Flight, Mutation, Resilience, Stature,Berserker Glaive, Rage of Khorne

These are the things that count towards the limit. The 100 point limit. If you add them (without giving the points away in the post- forum rules you know) you'll get 135 points. That is 35 points more than 100.

If you drop 35 he'll be fine.

Shas'O RenoSaurus said:
As a guideline a chaos lord...

Sure, he could have been fine with not having his minions worshipping him as a prince but then he grew "swelling to monterous proportions and taking on the aspect of a mighty Daemon Prince" p17 D. stature.
The thing is with that amount of gifts (and Stature) he'll be classified as a Daemon when people with special abilities against daemons are in the game. Eldars and Daemonhunters comes to mind.

Arizzar

· #17 · Feb 6, 2006

Shas'O, you forget that you also have daemonic armor, mutation, stature and resilience. Along with berzerker glaive, rage of khorne you have a grand total of 135 points in daemonic gifts (the glaive IS a daemonic gift for this purpose) so you will have to lose 35 points worth in order to have a legal daemon prince.

Arizzar

Arizzar

· #18 · Feb 6, 2006

He he... posted all at the same time...

Arizzar

Lordofchange

· #19 · Feb 6, 2006

Arizzar said:
He he... posted all at the same time...

Arizzar

It's what we in the business call "unanimous pissed off".

LoC

Renosaurus

Discussion Starter · #20 · Feb 6, 2006 (Edited)

OK. Now I might sound noobish, and yes I am, concerning CHAOS. Where does it say Gifts of the GOds count towards the deamonic gifts limit? that would mean a unit with mark of tzeenzch can't chooce bolt of change if it isn't an asp champion, that doesn't make sence.

the official GW FAQ does indeed say the GIFTS of the GODS count towards the wargear limit, but it doesn't say it counts towards teh DEAMONIC GIFTS limit. so again if this is the case,

show
me
where
GW
announced
it

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