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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The rule for a model providing cover for another model is it being twice as tall and none of the unit sticking out from the edges. The land speeder, although being a vehicle, is on a little stick that provides, (as you may have guessed,) very poor cover. But my main question is this: If the unit is twice as tall as the land speeder and stick together, but not twice as tall as the land speeder itself, which measurement do we take?

Also, if the model somehow is half as tall as the land speeder, but it still revealed by the stick holding the speeder up, does it count as being covered?
 

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As for the measurement, you need to work out something with your gaming group. I would use twice the height of the speeder (not including the stand), since it is hovering above the ground.

For the second question, yes. It does not matter how high a unit is behind a speeder. It will always be in 'cover' and have LOS blocked. 'Enemy models and ALL vehicles, friend or foe, DO block a unit's line of sight if they are in the way, just like buildings and other terrain (pg 45).'
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Alright then, thanks. :)
 

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Originally posted by hishamEQ@Sep 28 2003, 09:37
As for the measurement, you need to work out something with your gaming group. I would use twice the height of the speeder (not including the stand), since it is hovering above the ground.

I agree with this. The height of the model on the table, (i.e. model+stand) is irrelevant, as you could potentially shoot under it, etc. It's the actual model's size that counts for blocking.

This also fits with the official statements I've seen for tau drones. Their height with the stands would suggest that they block LOS for most things, but the official word is that the drones don't block LOS, so it can be assumed that the model size is the determining factor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Alrighty. Also, I thought the base might count is because the land speeder, (with lightning fast reflexes,) could hover up and down the stand to provide cover, making it presumable that it can cover it's width from it's platform to the top of it's actually placed model.

On a side note, if the cover save succeeds, does the vehicle covering ever take hits? Has someone perhaps made a variant rule for it, if not?
 

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Originally posted by Babel_Matrix@Sep 28 2003, 19:49


On a side note, if the cover save succeeds, does the vehicle covering ever take hits? Has someone perhaps made a variant rule for it, if not?
A novel thought, but not a rule I've ever heard of before. As I've said I'm just getting back into 40k, so I may not be the best resource, but I think that vehicles are normally just used to block LOS, not to actually provide cover saves.

My approach obviously doesn't cover all possible scenarios though, so you might want to make something up yourself if nobody else can provide a better answer than I.

I'd generally say that the vehicle doesn't get hit, just for simplicities sake... (and any rule that allowed it to get hit would allow for exploitation... I'd always want to aim at the troops behind a vehicle, because even if they made their cover save the same shot would still get a chance to inflict damage on the vehicle). OTOH, allowing it to get hit would provide for alot more realism... fun stuff. I'll have to check back here to see how you decide to work it out.
 

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On a side note, if the cover save succeeds, does the vehicle covering ever take hits? Has someone perhaps made a variant rule for it, if not?
I think you misunderstood my first post. When I spoke of 'cover', I was speaking in terms of concealment. Vehicles block LOS to other models. If you cannot see your target, you cannot shoot at it. So if a vehilce is between Unit A and Unit B, Unit A cannot fire at Unit B (and vice versa). The aspect of a cover save is moot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Page 55 in the Rulebook.

"The corner of a building, vehicle, or large rock counts as cover to any models placed on the edge so that they are partially obscured."

and also on Page 55 on the Cover Save chart under the 5+.

"Vehicles/Wrecks"

My statement was including the reality that if a cover save really does protect you, then that means the covering object may have participated in doing so by either throwing enemy aim off or it taking the hits, AKA boulders would get blown away, (terrain destruction variant rule,) and vehicles would get shot up, (vehicle cover damage variant rule.)

I did not misinterpret your statement, I'm simply talking about another aspect of getting cover from a vehicle. Obviously, if a model is COMPLETELY behind a vehicle, then it cannot get shot by something that sees the model from such an angle, (unless maybe your shooting Necrons through a Monolith and it accidentally phases out RIGHT when you're shooting at it, otherwise, I think not. :p )
 

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All right then, I see what you mean. Again, I would only interpret a unit/model getting a cover bonus if they were in postion right next to the vehilce in question. As for any efffects to the vehicle? I would say no. Miss hitting a trooper and trying to go for a direct hit on the Rhino he is standing next to are two different ways of shooting. I would say the vehicle suffers no effect (after all you could argue the blast hit the ground in front of the trooper and he ducked away behind the vehicle). Keep it simple.

Will this be abused by players? I'd say no. After all, unless the vehicle is destroyed (and if players decide to keep wrecks on the board), you are only going to have a model or two actually be able to use vehicles for cover. The rest will be out of LOS and cannot fire (or be fired on) at other units. Keep it simple.

As for speeders, I would assume in that instant of battle, a trooper just happened to be close enough to the speeder that would throw off the acccuracy of the shot.

And before this degenerates from everyone into a discussion about how technically, if a hit is successful, then the trooper is actually hit so a passed cover save must damage the thing he was using for cover, blah, blah, blah... 40K is not a realistic game (come on, you get to move your entire army and fight before I can use a single model). The mechanics are very abstract way to play a skirmish conflict. Realism has no place in it, otherwise the design mechanics have to be changed. Keep it simple. What is more important is that a rule does not get morphed into something that is unfair to game balance (Like 20 models hunkered behind a landraider, being able to shoot and then claim a cover save. Thankfully GW said vehicles block LOS to prevent something like this from happening).
 
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