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Do you feel that the lascannon is better in line squads or in groups as anti-tank units. Thanks for any advice.

Joe
 

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Hmmm...

That depends, do you want your standard squads to be static of mobile? If you don't plan on moving them much you can ad a LC onto a standard squad, or if you want your troops to be mobile, then you'd give them to an anti-tank support squad.

Personally, I would leave them in the support squads, as I prefer more mobile (and cheaper) infantry squads.

Cherrio

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This is an interesting topic, and one I'd even like to see as a poll. It is something I haven't made my mind up on yet mysel.

In my opinion, they're better in anti-tank squads for several reasons. First, the Sharpshooter doctrine can be relatively cheaply applied to the anti-tank squad, and given that they're single shot weapons, they're worth squeezing everything out of them you can.

Secondly, and more importantly, what is of issue when the enemy is close by is what you're using the squads for. When the enemy is between 48 and 24 inches away, its not a problem what to shoot at - you target whatever you want really dead, especially armour, with your lascannons. But what about when the enemy's squads get closer? Then you'll want your infantry squads shooting at them with their torrent of ineffective (but sometimes effective haha!) lasgun fire. I generally use infantry squads with a plasma gun and a heavy bolter - anti infantry more or less (you can make an argument that a grenade launcher is better for anti-infantry work, but plasma is just too useful in my opinion) This of course assumes you're wanting to move your infantry squad around a little bit.

I use 6 lascannons in 2 squads in my games of 1500 pts or over, and they're worth every point payed, in my opinion.
 

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RAWR! KROXIGOR!!
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I use Lascannons in anti-tank support squads as to put them in infantry squads would waste lasguns and special weapons. Also, lascannons are 10 points more then a missile launchers in infantry squads so these would generally be better choices for anti tank in infantry (I however use heavy bolter and plasma for infantry killyness).
 

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Monkey Pirate
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I always keep my heavy weapons in my line squads. (Normally these are missile launchers) The simple reason is it prolongs their life. Its very easy for most armies to make a target priority test and shoot anti tank squads lurking behind your line squads. With only 3 wounds, you have 3 wounds before your precious heavy weapons start dieing. Now with your line squads you have 9, and even if an entire squad is taken out you still have more where the one came from. Now if your enemy is fast, or has decent barrage/ ordi weapons the survivability dilemma becomes even tougher for anti tank squads.

Example, a friend of mine and me switched armies for a game he played as my guard with a list of his own design keeping all of his lascannons in 3 teams of 6. Using Necrons I was able to kill them all before my monolith even showed up.

Keeping your heavy weapons separate from your line squads is sort of like placing all your eggs in one basket. There are now only 2-5 targets on the table that are a serious threat to your tanks, as opposed to the 10 you could have.
 

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Suffer not the Unclean
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I usually put them in command squads first and then into infantry squads if I feel I need more. Anti-Tank squads present too much VP density to the enemy, and 10 man infantry squads waste too much potential damage output if all they shoot at is a tank.
 

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Monkey Pirate
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I usually put them in command squads first and then into infantry squads if I feel I need more. Anti-Tank squads present too much VP density to the enemy, and 10 man infantry squads waste too much potential damage output if all they shoot at is a tank.
See now there I disagree. From my experience the infantry squads usually can not shoot anything else. Especially in opening turns their 24 inch guns are complete bunk if you use your deployment zone correctly. A fire turn maelstrom of las cannon shots (hopefully) will damage tanks in such a way that you can move on to other targets-as they get into range.

If your playing a static gun line (like me) it tends to break down into a matter of range increments and when you start directing fire to different units. Lets say you have 1 Leman Russ, 1 Demolisher a basilisk and oh 10 las cannons a plasma guns in infantry squads. Now when you deploy hopefully you can deploy in such a way that your opponent is at least 36-48 inches away, this is a perfectly ideal scenario. Likely hood of happening next to nil. So lets say your all of 24 inches away from the front lines of your opponent. With a static gun line you have to pick and choose your targets very carefully, fast stuff always should draw the brunt of your fire, closest first then work back. Now before i loose it on this little shpeel if you look at the way your deployed there should be no way that ALL of your las cannon line squads are with in 24 inches to ping them with plasma/ las fire. These shots get directed to tanks terminators pesky battle suits (if your lucky enough to see them) hive tyrants.... you get the idea. Now on top of all this you have a Leman Russ that can pick off targets that are even further back, and a basilisk for stuff that the Russ can't even reach. The trick is to make sure you fire with the longest ranged stuff first, this way you can save your las guns (a seriously under estimated gun, good for you, bad for the fool who challenges you) for the stuff that is moving at you.

I know that was a little excessive but its been eating at me for a while now that so many people seem like they are resigned to lose just for playing guard.
 

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Do you feel that the lascannon is better in line squads or in groups as anti-tank units. Thanks for any advice.

Joe
Neither. Hardened Vets infiltrate and have a BS4. They have bodies for the meat shield, but don't make a line squad static.
Or, Shaeffers 2xman Lascannon teams are being toyed with. (The other BS4 HW option.)
I do have 2 that fit on my sentinals mind (changeable weaponry) - It's not that bad a cost and there are advantages on it being a vehicle.
 

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I have only recently put my lascannons into ATS squads. I also give them infiltrate and chem inhalers to increase their survivability.
Ive done this with the intention that two of these squads could take out most if not all opposition tanks within two turns and sometimes one turn at 1500pts.
Sometimes they wont make their points back against cheap tanks or transports, but their role is to support my tanks, that are more than capable of wiping out infantry, without the threat of other heavy tanks.

Also, Lascannons are the only weapons that do not cost more by putting them into an HQ support squad... infact, you get the 6 guardsmen for one point cheaper too.

I think that both will work as long as you know how to use them effectively.
 

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The Fallen
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funny how these things come around, last time for this one in any serious was I think 2004,

there are arguements both ways, putting AT weaoponry into line squads affords them better protection and the ability for each LC to target different things, however it tends to waste a lot of your fire power

there is no panacea, it is dependent on what army you face and what else is in your army as much as anything else
 

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durus
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I like to use them in HW squads or Veteran Squads. There really is no wrong answer, just a matter of protection.

I run Grenadiers for troops usually, and have HW and Veterans for my fire-support. I give these guys Cameolelene (not too bad on these specialized squads as I can't give it to Grenadiers!;Y)and set them back in as good cover as i can find which is not usually hard to do. Then my Tanks and Grenadiers to the troop killing.

If you do have them in a line squad (or Vet Squad), make sure you only take Plasma Guns as your Special Weapon. It's the only one that make scence.
 

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Suffer not the Unclean
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Well, if you're building armies that have 10 LasCannons and 10 Plasma Guns, the discussion is probably largely academic =). I was just saying I prefer them in command squads first for the reason given. They're certainly not 'bad' in infantry squads! I usually equip my platoon with a LasCannon and Plasma Gun in the command squad and AutoCannons + either GL or Plasma depending on my mood in the infantry squads.

I also almost never play a straight guard army. Half of my points value or more is generally in Sisters of Battle, so I may have skewed priorities for what I want my guardsmen to do (e.g., I don't really care if I make my command squads a higher priority target, because I have the Book of St Lucius wandering around creating LD bubbles.) ( I also can't have sharp shooters if it's run as a Witch Hunters Army =(, one of the big reasons I sometimes run the list as an IG army.)
 

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by the way kroxigor01, the lascannon is 15 points more, a missal launcher is only 10 pts
 

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Ahhh my favorite debate!

I run a gunline with 3 Bassies and 110 guardsmen (1,750) and I am a firm believer in putting Las Cannons in support squads.

My reasoning being that there role is MC and tank hunting. So put them in support squads near for command squad.

Line squads I believe should have Plasma or Grenade Launchers for special Weapons and Heavy Bolters or Auto Cannons for Heavy weapons (I go Plasma h-bolter). The logic behind this is why have a LC or ML in a line squad. Half of the time whats going to happen is your 1 heavy weapon is going to shoot at a tank and miss while the rest of the squad stands there and watches. What a waste of fire power! now when you deck them out for troop killing, everyone gets to party with the heavy weapon and you stand a chance of doing more damage over all.

Also LC's go great in infiltraiting Hardened vet squads with 3 plasma guns. I use 2 units (8 strong) of them and they are one of my hardest hitting squads in the game. I play against Nidzilla lists alot so there primary role is MC hunting but they are also effective at tank killing aswell.

just my 2 cents8Y
 

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Monkey Pirate
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...Half of the time whats going to happen is your 1 heavy weapon is going to shoot at a tank and miss while the rest of the squad stands there and watches. What a waste of fire power! now when you deck them out for troop killing, everyone gets to party with the heavy weapon and you stand a chance of doing more damage over all.

A
I don't really think its a waste its not like every turn your las guns are in range anyway. If you have enough squads you should be able to handle enemy armor before your linemen even get in range.
 

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I agree it is risky in terms of putting eggs in a single basket. I guess I just like to be able to move my squads at the start of the game. That said, I'll generally deploy the lascannon teams in HWS, with sharpshooters, in good cover near the rear of the army. Intimidation factor even plays a role, here, I feel, as enemies will avoid them and maybe draw themselves into your other guns.

Veterans are good, in fact, better sources for lascannons than infantry squads, but I prefer to use those guys to have 3 plasmaguns to defend my main line from heavy infantry, or use 3 meltaguns in a 5-man squad to cheaply deepstrike and roast tanks.
 

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A 51st Century Man
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I really do not like having the lascannon in any infantry platoon. It has a high cost, it is not adaptable to an all troop army. I perfer to keep the lascannon on my armoured units but if you truly must have a lascannon with guardsmen I would do a heavy weapon platoon.
 

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Watcher In The Sky
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When I play non-drop Guard, I like keeping heavy A-T in support squads, the logic behind this being that infantry squads are decent at taking down infantry if they have an anti-infantry setup, but they are only passable at anti-tank even with lascannon and plasma, so you may as well focus your line squads on anti-infantry fire, leaving your support squads to take out enemy armour.

Lets face it, if your lascannon die AFTER taking out enemy armour it doesnt matter, so the only concern is the first few turns of shooting. May as well make it sharpshooters-effective.
 

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Shrug, k...
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meh, just about 99% of the topics came up at one point or another within the past 5 years; don't know how people are always surprised when they resurface. it's like 'my god, someone thought up an idea that was as interesting to them as it was to someone else a couple years ago even though the current person wasn't around back then, what are the chances'.

anyways though, the facts/points generally brought up are usually the same; infantry squads give those lascannons a longer survivability while causing the rest of those pitter-patter lasgun shots to be wasted, while anti-tank squads give them a more specialized/focused role that frees up the other squads but causes more aggro-threat that in turn may get them killed quicker.

then there's the advocates or vet squads, which aren't really the point since lascannons are the general rule of thumb heavy gun for vet squads. and command squads, which can be useful as long as that squad isn't needed for anything else aside from but that still leaves the numbers of them a bit lacking if you limit them to just command squads since most armies don't take more than 3 maybe 4 and one of them would be for the 'out-of-los ld bubble'.

it's all just personal preference in the end or whatever you think works best in gameplay experimenting, same goes for most things gameplay option-wise. and usually it'll end up one of the other depending on the person and his preference of gameplay so there really isn't a definitive answer, as goes for any question that requires an opinion-based answer.
 

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A 51st Century Man
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when it comes to anti- armoured units I leave the heavy stuff to my tanks while I give my squads missile launchers to handle both infantry and medium armour.
 
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