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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, i'm recorverting old minis to get a full LaTD as 5th army, and i have some critical problems to decide which troop may i buy/use.

i have designed a full only chaos demons/mutants army, and a traitor/CSM army (possessed, etc.) and i don't get which will be more playable.

one it would be a khorne based mutant army, with a bloodthirster, three squads of 8 bloodletters for elite, and three squads of 8 khorne flesh hounds as fast attack, and for base troops, 6 mutant squads: 4 khorne gifted and 2 plague zombies squads. Two defilers and 3 chaos spawns finish the heavy support

the other would be a more imperial guard type, with 6 traitor squads, 3 possessed squads, 2rough riders squads, 1 hellhound tank,2 leman russ battle tanks, and a basilisk.


every list has its benefits and its problems: mutant based lists are great in c/c but they do not convince me for shooting, and imperial like army is not as powerful as IG, and is not as good as mutant list in c/c, but allows you to have great tanks & infiltrate


i don't know what to do... what do you prefer, mutants or traitors?
 

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My reccomendations is to go somewhere inbetween the two ideas, take your manditory slots as mutants, and go the rest traitors, then split your remaining points between tanks and daemons.

If you have specific fluff you want to stick to for the two different armies I would go with your mutant idea. My experience with guard-like LatD armies is that they end up being just like guard, except you pay more per model, have leadership issues, and don't have access to docterines. In other words just playing guard is more practical.

Some things to watch out for with your list though, I can't recommend plague zombies, they can't have any upgrades, and that includes a boss. A mutant squad with a power fist wielding boss, is far more effective in hth. (expecially when he's fighting beside an aspiring champion. . .) Also the slow movement, with no transport options, really hurts a unit that has nothing to add to a fight outside of hand to hand combat.

I've done the math, and the only upgrades that, in my evaluation, are worthwile on mutants are bloated, and firearms (and these only because they're free; it's not worth firing them at most targets.)
 

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Slave to the flesh
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I prefer traitors because of traitor recon, I would fill out the compulsories with traitors and then add a mutant mob or two.
 

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the other would be a more imperial guard type, with 6 traitor squads, 3 possessed squads, 2rough riders squads, 1 hellhound tank,2 leman russ battle tanks, and a basilisk.
This is how I play my Nurgle LatD. However instead of possesed I field nurgle marines instaed and some plaguebearers ( tricky keeping rot away from your own traitors). I use all the imperial units you list ( in different quantities) and have lascannons in each traitor squad. I do use some mutants though ( two big units ) and keep my traitor guard to the minimum size - I just want the las and the tanks they can get me.
I have friends who plays the all mutant list and this can be effective too - he uses Khorne LatD with a tooled up Lord, possesed, big mutants and reg. mutants. You need to fill out with other fast attack choices though - hounds and raptors - and add defiler - not as good as bassie in my mind.
LatD can be a very effective army. Its beauty is its flexibility. Experiment and see which approach suits your play style.
 

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I think you need some traitor squads that way you have access to the guard tanks, sentinals, hell hounds etc. That way your army can have a balance of some heavy shooting and be able to summon daemons from other squads.
 

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Rules for LaTD

Are they in an open .pdf, like the space wolves rules? Can someone link them?

Sabre
 

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Bork! Bork! Bork!
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Use Blood Pact Troopers, there dedicated to Khorne, dont have to charge when close to enamy have BS 4 too. Can find stats in one of the white dwarfs...290something
 

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Son of LO
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Personally.. I'd go with mutants.

Not a fan of marking them myself though, 6 points for a T4 beastie with 2 attacks? Bargain anyone?

Once you get 2 squads of mutants, then consider adding a minned out traitor squad to infiltrate with a lascannon. It's not worth having to buy a maximum size squad of overpriced guardsmen as a compulsory troops choice.
 

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Librarian from Hell
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I'll just second what most people said really.

When I play LatD I use a mix of Traitors and Mutants. The thing with this army is this option if fair shooting and closecombat-skills.
Like Mantis said, avoid using Traitors as compulsory one can use either bloodpact, mutants or my favourite Gibbering Hordes for this.

The lesser spawns are not to be neglected, they are in fact really good for keeping other units out of harms way. They can prevent both unwanted charges, deepstriking-close-to-tanks-Assault marines and they can be deployed to prevent Wolfscouts from entering within melta range.
They are also very durable in CC and when (if) they charge that's 4 attacks à base. They have done good I must say.
 

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OK. I've just played through a couple of tournaments with variant LatD lists and here's my two cents.

Mutants: Cheap, but unmobile. Good as a counter-attacking force, but difficult to use if you need to advance toowards the enemy. Unless you go with a full on horde list which can get kinda monotonous painting 150+ models. The mutant boss with a powerfist is almost a mandatory upgrade particularly if you're not leading the squads with an aspiring champion.

'Marked' Mutants:

Strength/Khorne=Overpriced. These might be good if you had a delivery vector other than flootslogging, but as it is, I'd never take them unless I had made an extremely shooty LaTD list and the enemy was already coming towards me. Even, then since you can get 3 regular mutants for the cost of two strength enhanced ones, I'd go with the 'unmarked
mutants.

Bloated/Nurgle Probably the best value. More durable on the way in and in hth. Depending upon your opponent's army this will either be better than or equal to taking an unmarked unit. Remember though, even the minimum squad size of such mutants is still quite a bit more than a regular, so if you're using your mutants to take up troop slots or summon daemons, it might be overkill.

Plague Zombies are a subclass here, and I usually wouldn't take them, as they are even slower and can't take any upgrades or a boss/powerfist all to gain fearless. Not really worth it, unless you decide to use them at full size(30 models) roadblock to tie up the enemies best hth unit. Again though, due to their lack of speed, most of your opponnents will be smart enough to avoid this. Basically, the only way I can see this unit being a good thing is if you take enough units to effectively blanket the board so your opponnent can't avoid them. If you do this, though you won't have much of an army other than the zombies. As an aside, anyone just starting 40K after coming from a fantasy unded type list could easily slap them all on round bases, paint up a few models in power armour to represent some IC models, and have a full on zombie list which might be kinda fun. Not going to be a tournament winner though.

Horrifying/Slannesh
If I have to tell anyone that the mutants will either A: Not win a round of hth or if they do win, they will probably outnumber so much than another -1 won't matter, you shouldn't be playing LatD. Never take this. Spent the points on more mutants.

Leaping/Tzeentch Interesting as a daemon bomb platform perhaps. Paying double their regular point cost to gain daemonic speed seems like a waste, but it does deal with the mutants main weakness. I probably wouldn't recommend this except if you have a following unit that needs to be protected from enemy fire on the way in as the leaping mutants die to tie up enemy units and block lines of fire, or again as a summoning point for daemons. The only type of mutant I haven't tried out personally, so maybe its better than I think. Seems a lot like Hormagaunts without synapse though. If you took these guys, I think having a IC or a AC with daemonic speed to lead them is almost mandatory as you'll need the Ld and HtH bonus these guys an bring. Actually, that seems like a lot of fun...30 leaping mutants joined by a tooled up IC with speed. Would be a huge chunk of points though.

Traitors Lets not quibble here. You're going to take at least one of these in order to field an IG tank of some kind. Thats why you're playing LatD and not CSMs. So we have to find the best use for the traitor squad(s).

They come with the option to take ccws/pistols, get free frag grenades and can infiltrate. Don't let this fool you into tooling them up for hth. They remain guard. Except more expensive guard that have less leadership. Even a maxed out squad, led by an AC and a 'tooled' up Agitator is going to die horribly against anything but weak hth opponents and the squad won't be cheap either.

So what do they have to offer beyond allowing you to take that Basalisk or Hellhound?

Infiltrating heavy weapons. With a much smaller minimum squad size than IG, you can get some very cheap infiltrating lascannons for example.

Infiltrating daemon summoning icons. No more needs to be said other than to keep this advance squad in cover or better yet completely out of sight until they accomplish their job.
 

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Wow grey, you took that right out of my mind with regards to traitors and mutants. The only difference is that I favor "naked" mutants over bloated, but I play agianst players with a lot of ap4 weapons so that can easily account for that. here's why:
vs ap4 or better naked are 50% more durable per point than bloated.
vs ap5 (meq standard) bloated are 25% more durable per point than "naked."
vs ap6 or worse naked are 12.5% more durable than bloated.

only vs ap 5 is bloated better, however I call them even because of the commoness of ap5 weapons, and the fact that your squad for the same cost isn't as big, and are eaiser to move around, take advantage of cover ect. . .
In cc however it's either no ap or all ap so "naked" are better resilience per point, plus for the same number of points you get 50% more attacks (assuming they all can fight, wich can be a problem in large mutant squads. . .)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
thanks guys, after reading all you wrote, i'm convinced to adjust my LaTD army.

i' have some ideas and i'll probably develop a mixed army.

i'll stay with some mutants, 2 squads maybe, and i'll use the unmarked, and add at least, 2 small traitor units with heavy weapons and chaos icons to infiltrate. i'm thinking about having other two traitor units with heavy weapons. that will allow me to add some tanks. and well, infiltrating and demon summoning is a very tactical option to, at least, terrorize the opponent ... with the heavy charge of the bloodletters !!.


thanks to all, your help is appreciated.
 
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