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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Howdy guys,
I have an interesting army which uses basic troops as a meat wall, no severe upgrades, just basic plasmaguns and such, then is heavy on stuff like veterans, SW squads, and I have a full 10 man Unit of rough riders. What I need to know, is whether to use 2 basilisks and some more infantry or a sentinel or something, or should I just use 2 leman russ tanks, with all heavy bolters?

I wanted the basilisk, to take out heavy infantry and maybe some armor if I can scatter well, and since it is going to do damage pretty much whereever you shoot it, I liked it. I was wondering if the leman russ' battle cannon counted as an ordinance weapon, in the fact that it always lands, you just have to roll for scatter.

let me know!
 

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durus
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I like one of each.

If you are playing a Cleanse game, then you can park the Bassie behind the Russ to block LOS. In other games, put the Bassie behind the best Terrain on one corner, and the Leman on the other corner.
 

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I like to have one or two basilisks both parked out of sight- one in each corner, with no other vehicles. Then you still get your ordinance and the whole board can get hit by your bassie. Also, the opponent will have to waste his lascannon shots at puny guardsmen.

It's also good to have 2 leman russes instead of 1 to ensure that one will always be firing. Because the LR is so dangerous, it will get targeted like crazy and will probably spend half the game stunned and, like most things in 40k, it works better in pairs.
 

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i like 1 or 2 bassies when i don't play armoured company. two of them cost me as much as one leman russ or less. i make sure i have protection for them... earthshaker rounds are beautiful. i'm tempted to get a third basilisk. but then there's the argument about templates. the plastic flame template is classified "template" in the rules the round templates are classified ordnance or blast or large blast. depending on where i play, some people take vulnerable to templates as meaning blast template, ordnance and flame template. i love playing on big tables. 2 bassies and another tank (russ or vanquisher or griffon)
>>>>>"the guns, oh god, the guns"

i'm always nervous about doing the opposite ends of the deployment zone kinda thing, though it's proved a very good tactic. i don't like loosing my vehicles and i feel i won't be able to protect them adequately.

i've played at times when i only paid points for 2 without indirect fire and actually placed them in plain sight far from the enemy. less chance to scatter farther on direct fire... :p necrons ended up phasing out that game. but that was a strange game... my ogryns attack actually worked out... only time i've used ogryns.

i actually usually never field more than one leman russ unless i'm playing my armoured company. i use my hellhound more than i would take 2 lemans. ... my hellhound gets destroyed a lot..... :p

of course then there's armoured company cheese i pull on people. Vanquisher HQ, 2 lemans as troops. Then griffon, and 2 bassies as heavy support. through in storm trooper chimera and mebbe sentinel squadron or armoured fist....
 

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I would agree that they can be a powerful tool, but beware their minimum range. If you deploy a single Basalisk, the oponent will generaly opt for a weighted deployment right in front of it, getting inside it's minimum range in 1 turn on a standard 6x4 table, and when playing 15" deployment zones the enemy will most likley be starting the game within it's minimum range.
For this reason I have always found them an impractical tool in my army, and they aren't worth taking for their direct fire capabilities. The Earthshaker is only marginaly better than the Battlecannon, it cannot move and fire and it has nowhere near the armour.

The only way I would use Basalisks is using the tactic NTFH suggested. Put one in either corner, so if they try to get within the minimum range of one, the other will always be there to cover it. Many armies take deepstrikers along to handle this situation.

Personaly I just think a pair of Russes is more dangerous. Not only do they have a cannon almost as powerful, but they can move and fire it, and they can also be equipped with a good set of sponson weapons that will make it a multi-role tank. Not to mention it's incredible armour, 2 sets of armour 14 will generaly garuntee you at least 1 of them will shoot each turn!

Hope this helps
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ok. So the Leman Russ can fire indirect? Is that what I am getting?

Here is my list so far, using the LR as opposed to the Bassilisk. Can I get some opinions?
Doctorines:
Drop Troops
Veterans
Close Order Drill
Allow Special Weapon Squads
Allow Rough Riders


Senior Officer
4x guardsmen
-Heavy Bolter
2x Special Weapon Squads
-2x Dem Charge, 4x Meltagun
(dropping)

Hardened Veteran Sergeant
5x Hardened Veterans
-3x Meltaguns
(dropping)

Hardened Veteran Sergeant
5x Hardened Veterans
-3x Meltaguns
(dropping)

Hardened Veteran Sergeant
5x Hardened Veterans
-3x Meltaguns
(dropping)

Junior Officer
-Heavy Bolter
4x Guardsmen
Infantry Squad
-Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad
-Rocket Launcher

Junior Officer
-Heavy Bolter
4x Guardsmen
Infantry Squad
-Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad
-Rocket Launcher

10x Rough Riders
-Veteran Sergeant, w/Honorifica Imperials huntinlance and power weapon
-9x hunting lances

LR Battletank
-Extra Armor, Improved Comms, Hull Bolter, Sponson Bolters

LR Battletank
-Extra Armor, Improved Comms, Hull Bolter, Sponson Bolters

TOTAL::: 1500 points
 

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nope the leman has to fire directly, comparing the leman russ to the basilisk, the leman russ can take out infantry just about as well as the basilisk (however the baSIlisk can get pinning effects depending which firing mode but then loses a chunk o accuracy). However against tanks, the basilisk is better but only slightly.

I hope this has been helpful,
Rob
 

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people seem to get caught up on the bassies minimum range. but you can always direct frie with no minimum range. the bassies are not good on small tables usually. if you want to go big on tanks go chapter approved armoured company. i guess not everyone wants to do that or has the resources. 2 leman russ can tack up a lot of points, i find. points cost is my argument in a regualr guard army.
 

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I prefere two basilisks personally. One parked in each corner so that the minimum range for indirect firing doesn't come into play (one basilisk will always get to fire at something indirectly unless your opponent's army is directly in between them...in which case they are PROBABLY in close combat with you.

Basilisk is better in the anti-tank role IMO, especially against defilers, whirlwinds, and other basilisks. Basilisk is excellent against Tau as well, since your opponent's "tau shuffle" (JSJ) is effectively negated since one well placed earthshaker shell can insta-kill an entire squad, even if they are "behind cover."

The ability of the basilisk to pin is also nice, but few people remember to enforce the pin check.

Leman russ is cool, especially since they draw A LOT of fire. But I'd rather have a high threat unit that CANT draw fire because it is unseen.
 

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NTFH said:
people seem to get caught up on the bassies minimum range. but you can always direct frie with no minimum range... 2 leman russ can tack up a lot of points, i find. points cost is my argument in a regualr guard army.
To be honest NTFH, firing a Bassie directly is only a good tactic if you want it dead!
You're right, a Russ can tack up a lot of points, but a well equipped russ only has to be 30pts more expensive than a Bassie (indirect fire is generaly a requesite on the Bassie).

It all depends on how you use your tanks. If you want to sit behind cover to keep them protected then use a Bassie, but be prepared for your oponent to try and outmanuver you and use the minimum range against you.
Personaly I would prefer to spend the extra 60pts, put 2 AV14 tanks down on the board and say "A missile launcher? Roll a 6, then another 6 lol." Chances are, at least one of those tanks will be firing every turn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok, I'm convinced on the usefullness of the Leman Russ.

Can I please get some reviews on the Army itself? I never get any on the army list section, thought I'd throw it in here.
 

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my two cents, first on the list, then on the basi vs leman russ...

the list...
first, you're going to be a bit screwed if you end up playing a mission without deep strike as a lot of your strat seems to rely on that. i'd say don't include melta-guns with the demo charges, i'd say at most... flamers. the demo charge should be used on infantry masses and not vehicles as the melta is specialized for (although alright on anti-meq), but that's just more lost points when the squad, as the rest of them, will most likely get killed next turn unless the demo scatters onto you during your turn.

second, your command squads; my recommendation, give them mortars instead (or at least to the hq command squad so they can fire without being in line of sight for return fire), upgrade your senior officer to a junior officer with honorifica or a heroic senior officer, and upgrade one of his staff to a vet stardard bearer, possibly even look into giving your officer's iron discipline.

third, might consider looking into equipping your infantry squads with special weapons, i like plasma guns personally due to their range and anti-meq ability. as for heavy weapons, it's your preference.

fourth, the rough riders, it's up to you but it shouldn't be completely necessary to have one 10-man squad of them; i'd split it into two 5-man squads to cover more counter-charge area; also, remember, the majority of units you'll be charging with these guys will already have suffered salvos of fire from the rest of your army so 10-men might be a bit overkill and thus a waste of their one-timing hunting lance.

fifth, once again, i think you're relying a bit too much on deep strike; personally, my initial army had two dropping vet squads, but i ended up rarely getting missions that allowed deep striking, and even then, facing armies worth throwing that many vet squads at; plus the variables on chance. chance to show up from reserve, chance to land where you need and not destroyed or out of range (especially if hoping for the 6" melta 2d6 range in crowded hostile territory), chance to hit, chance to penetrate, chance to destroy; if you think it's worth the points, go ahead, it's up to you, but me personally, i'd rather save those points and put in more weapons and squads on the line. and for the points you put into all those dropping squads, it's almost half your army in points. lastly on that, if you end up against an all infantry/horde army, those points are most likely to be wasted with lack of targets.

anyways......

as for leman russ vs basilisk. i personally, use two leman russes and one basilisk. it's hard to really compare them as they both have different uses on the field; one being stay out of sight and kill their troops that do the same, while the other being draw fire away from more fragile targets while applying fire to those that stay in your sight, making both tanks complementary to each other.
 
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