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Advocatus Diaboli
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Could you scan/attach what they use as evidence of what we use of theirs, particularly the space wolf stuff?

Basically the use of the Eagle, in their view, constitutes a breach of copyright. So any usage of that eagle (particularly when it makes us money) is a breach. Therefore they want to account for them all so it can be completely removed and not happen again.

GW legal seem to be conducting a witch hunt of late, they've just shut down fumbbl, for example.
 

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Firefly
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Is that the whole thing?

The letter goes on about examples but there are non except the mention of the logo and the stuff on zazzle.
 

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Weird, I can never remember seeing the imperial eagle on LO, and I have no idea what zazzle is. Rork's advice seems good. Although I too am interest to know what there examples are.

cheers
 

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Having done a quick google of double headed aquila surely this guy:

has more of a case than GW for copying of his image. The eagle on the logo looks nothing like the triangular form of the GW aquila.

As for the SW stuff, surely a simple apology and a "we'll make sure we don't advertise your stuff for free anymore by cracking down with the moderators" will be sufficient. After all, if they're that worried about their IP then surely we shouldn't even be posting pictures of their models?
 

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Not sure if this is really my place to say but...

I am really getting annoyed with the attitude GW has about their IP. Flames of War was never this bad. I got kicked out of the local GW store by a pretty good friend of mine for mentioning needing to buy some dark elf capes bits from thewarstore.com. Guy said his manager had fired one of the other employees for talking with a customer about that site.

Um...hello?
 

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I've just been though this type of thing with GW last month. I use photos of the new space wolf products from there website on a online action site to sell there products. I got the same sort of letter saying that I cant use there IP (photos) to sell there figures?!??? And I had to Chane my online store name from The Gamers Workshop I guess that could be mixed up with there name so I changed it

I replayed say I wouldn't do it again
 

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What a bunch of dicks.

Change the logo, give them the records they ask for if you have them, apologize and move on is what I say.

Also when did we(LO) use content from the space wolves codex and packaging? I would like to see that scan aswell.

EDIT for arguements sake: How is a two headed eagle their copyright? It's not even the same one! Are things like this also a violation of their IP? http://www.zazzle.com/my_albania_eagle_blazon_tshirt-235360033523325687

Finally, I propose replacing the eagle in the logo with something like a parrot to poke fun at this situation after complying.
 

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Banned
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EDIT for arguements sake: How is a two headed eagle their copyright? It's not even the same one! Are things like this also a violation of their IP?
This is a list of what they have as trademarks. Here's an abridged version. The thing about the link you provided is that the company that makes those shirts isn't trading off anything GW-based themselves.

Adeptus Astartes, ... Daemonhunters, Dark Angels, Dark Eldar, Dark Future, the Double-Headed/Imperial Eagle device, 'Eavy Metal, Eldar, ... characters, vehicles, locations, units, illustrations and images from the Blood Bowl game, the Warhammer world, the Talisaman world, and the Warhammer 40,000 universe are either ®, TM and/or © Copyright Games Workshop Ltd 2000-2009, variably registered in the UK and other countries around the world. Used without permission. No challenge to their status intended. All Rights Reserved to their respective owners.
The thing about IP is that it comes under the Private sector, which means it's completely down to the individual to enforce, which will invariably lead to some level of arbitration on GW's part in enforcing. Typically, they'll only enforce it if someone else is making profits off them without their prior consent, or if they feel someone's devaluing their IP (case in point: Fumbbl or Vassal, for that matter. The program eliminates the need to buy tabletop miniatures, hence the devaluation here).

However, this isn't something I'd worry too intensely about. This isn't the first time we've been contacted by GW and things went smoothly last time, so things shouldn't get too serious here either. Blackhat knows what he's doing here; he's been an admin of a GW-based forum for seven years now.
 

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Advocatus Diaboli
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4,571 Posts
While there are a lot of double headed eagle motifs, GWs is a very specific design.

If we had a heraldic double headed eagle, GW couldn't complain, but we don't right now.
 

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LO's Resident Time Lord
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3,270 Posts
A PM to all members isn't necessary, since it wasn't the actions of a member that prompted this, but sadly, I must agree that we should comply with GW immediately, or risk getting shut down. If it were just me, I'd say that legally GW is really grasping at straws here, but with all our other members and their experience at LO at stake, I say, don't screw around. Play nice. It's not worth it.
 

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Not wanting to go off topic, but this brought up the question for me that, does anyone make money off of Librarium? Like they people, I don't even know who you are, that own the address and run the site, do you get money off selling advertising space on the site? I'm just interested because my brother works in internet marketing and was wondering how this site works, when compared to something like facebook or something similar.

cheers
sean
 

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Senior Member
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4,361 Posts
I agree that you really have no choice but to comply with them. After that, I would wait a bit, and then send them a letter asking for consent to use whatever you were using. Explain that you are promoting the game and there product, and maybe they will give you a consent letter.

Some places just like acting tough, but if you ask nicely, they will let you use some things.

SirKently
 

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The Landlord
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I will remove the eagle and hire a graphics artist to make a parrot posing the same way as the eagle and use it instead.

Same with the tshirts. I will hire an artist to make us the coolest 40k shirts in history hehe :)

i wll of course also not risk LO and I will comply with their request. I sent her an email this morning, but she never replies which is kinda frustrating cause I dont know what happends next
 

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I was very, VERY drunk.
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612 Posts
If you can afford it, I would suggest speaking to a commercial solicitor. Sending your private financial records is a big thing and (as far as I'm aware) you are under no legal obligation to do so. What they've offered you there is a contract - do as we say and we won't sue you - not a breakdown of your legal obligations/their rights. This isn't my area, so I really would advise a solicitor, unless of course you're happy to disclose the information to them.
 

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I was very, VERY drunk.
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612 Posts
That would certainly qualify, but they could easily claim that as the offending article was on the main page and used in the promotion of LO a percentage of all the profits made by LO were made, in part, due to the use of their intellectual property. Also, if they were to make a claim against you for it, they could use the fact that you sent them the info as proof that you accept that you made the profit that way.

As you can see it's rather complicated, and big companies like that aren't known for their scruples - it really would be better to talk to a solicitor, which, incidentally, is why they've only given you two weeks, so that you won't have time to do that. They're hoping you'll panic and mistake the letter they sent you as a declration of their legal rights. It's all rather shady, I'm afraid.
 

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I dont know what exactly the mean by providing them an account of profits made. I have sent them a list of profits made through the zazzle tshirt sale.
Well personally, with GW boosting prices of models to gain even more profit, because I guarantee you they make like 700% on their models, this is just another bull**** ploy to get even more money.

They could have easily just said that we are using copyright images of theirs, taken it down so there are no future problems. Also that a site that deals with selling of their product has our logo, that needs to be taken care of too. We are fans of their product and buy their product, thus supporting their company. Do we honestly look like a bunch of money hungry criminals in this site? Asking for documentation is outright ridiculous.

Now if we did not respond to a simple letter stating what is unsettling on our website, nor fix the problem, then legal action and paper documentation is appropriate. This site has been up for what, 9 years I think Alzer said, and just NOW we have a problem?

This site is great, just do what they say, but like Canew said, they are grabbing at straws here.

P.S> She will probably never respond back, they got what they want, they don't give two shits about us, only their money and product.
 
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