[SandWyrm]

In another thread, this was said:

It hurts my head when I check out the Imperial Guard Army List forum and see that the same list has been posted by 6 different people and has recevied the exact same "this sucks, this sucks, take this, take this" comments. It's getting old and very successfully making the Imperial Guard Forum an incredibly boring place to be.

So I asked myself, is there really just one IG build? I don't think so. We have lots of competitive builds now, especially compared to Tau or Sisters of Battle, who really only have one left. In fact, I'd argue that we have the most flexible and interesting codex the game has ever seen!

So let's see if we can make a list of all the competitive IG builds. I'll start us off:

1) Full Mech Agressive

This is what I play. Some combination of Chimeltas, Russes, and Valks/Vendettas. Meant to push into the midst of the enemy and kill it up close.

2) Full Mech Gun Line (Leafblower)

Combines platoons in Chimeras with long-range artillery to kill the enemy from a distance.

3) Half Mech

Combines the durability of a platoon in cover with an objective grabbing group of Chimeltas and Russes.

4) Infantry Gun Line with Artillery

The most traditional build. Doesn't move, doesn't need to.

5) Infantry Rush

Strakken and his 180 bodyguards are coming for you. With Sentinels to provide cover.

6) Air Cav Rush

Meltas or Grey Knights in Valks. First turn death.

Anybody have another category, or wish to expand upon these descriptions with some principles of play? I'm thinking we could put together a definitive list of styles for new players to browse through.

 

[antique_nova]

how about a russ rush with supporting swarms of guardsmen? is the most commmonly used tactic in the real world. well before 1950 anyway.
thanks
antique_nova

 

[SandWyrm]

how about a russ rush with supporting swarms of guardsmen? is the most commmonly used tactic in the real world. well before 1950 anyway.
thanks
antique_nova

That's a very historical way of thinking about it. But what I'm going for is how are competitive builds for IG played. Not what *might* work, but what we've seen that *will* work. Russes in 40K tend to hang back behind the Chimeras rather than the other way around, as would be typical of a U.S. armored division where the tanks lead the way. But that's how you win in 40K.

 

[343rd Mordian]

I use a three pronged attack: Basilisks raining death down on non-believing traitor guard and Xenos, then my much hated Leman Russ Squads rolling in to soften things up, followed by an infantry rush who come in and take out the last vestiges of resistance.
I am not sure which catagory this falls under.

 

[antique_nova]

what's the points limit for these competitive builds? because none of them is raelly competitive if there is no points limit ^^.
thanks
antique_nova

 

[EmoJosh]

Half Mech is the competitive build imho. Most of the types posted are good, except pure Infantry rush/gunline which is to easy to play around to win often.

I'm biased for sure because I run half Mech but I've never been in a game where I didn't have a very good chance to win and I've never seen a list that hard counters me unless it's KPs, which would be my achilles heel and the same goes for any IG army.

The reason all IG armies are the same is because most people troll a few forums, see a lot of the same and say "Hey it must work!". They never bother to sit down, think about the Codex and how units work together. Please keep spamming all Mech IG though players of the world, easy wins for me. ;]

 

[==Me==]

Whatever most tournies run, so anything from 1500 up to 2500.

1) Creed's Tactical Genius: Creed, autocannon HWS out the arse, 2 big blobbed up assaulty platoons, lascannon batteries, and any leftover points going into melta Stormies, Penal Troops, Sentinels, or more guns. Creed sits back with his orders buffing lascannon batteries and his walking blobs (furious charging guardsmen!). From the flanks/skies we get another big blob, Sents, Penal Troops, or Stormies to take the offensive. It's bad enough having 30 stubborn guardsmen rushing towards you, now you have 30 more coming off the flanks, plus Sentinels or Penal Troops (with Priests!). There's also the matter of 4 TLLC and Emperor knows how many autocannons.

2) Hybrid mech: This is a HUGE category, encompassing all mixes of mech armies with infantry elements as support. 12 AV12 vehicles are bad, 10 AV12s with 40 stubborn guardsmen holding on objectives and providing long range fire is worse. Infantry can also be used as bubblewrap to protect static tanks like Executioners or artillery by surrounding them and preventing assaulters or melta to get close enough. Taking a mean mech army and introducing cheap, versatile foot Troops is very very nasty.

3) Allies-a-palooza. Infantry Guard, plus GKs in Chimeras, run. Mech Guard with cheap and durable squads of Sisters thrown in providing stubborn Ld10 bubbles, power armor, faith, and fun stuff like Immolators. Hello Mystics, good bye Deep Strikes. It's like have 2 more codices' worth of options to work with, actually that's exactly what it is.

4) The Alpha Strike: Valks + Demo Vets (first turn melta bomb charge), Medusas, Manticores, other long range firepower, all mounted, all mobile. Emperor's Tarot and Astropath. Take first turn, MURDER everything. If you don't win, throw stuff in reserve and roll up on a 3+ turn 2 with long range, mobile firepower. It's a one turn punch to the jaw designed to cripple any army.

5) The "Death" Army: A Stelek special,

So, here we go.

Time to bust out the death list, no fluff...just killing you and your ******* army.

"Death"

We will bring nothing that can be stopped, or countered. Just killing power wherever possible.

All vehicles that CAN be given heavy flamers, have them. Thanks for playing.

This is, literally, the 'Best of' list I don't want to play against.

Company Command w/4 Flamers, Astropath, Chimera. 155

Veterans w/3 Flamers, Chimera. 140
Veterans w/3 Flamers, Chimera. 140
Veterans w/3 Flamers, Chimera. 140

Vendetta Gunship (Triple Las, double heavy bolters): 140
Vendetta Gunship (Triple Las, double heavy bolters): 140
Devil Dog: 240

Medusa: 135
Medusa: 135
Medusa: 135

That's 1500.

For 1750:

Add Psyker Battle Squad w/Chimera. 125
Add Psyker Battle Squad w/Chimera. 125

That's 1750.

For 2000:

Add Psyker Battle Squad w/Chimera. 125
Add Veterans w/0 Flamers, Chimera. 125

I recommend you swap 2 flamers from the Command squad to this Veteran unit.

That's 2000.

This list sits on it's board edge and waits for you.

If you go first or second, it's got a hell of a punch.

You get too close, it's got a hell of a punch.

The Medusa's have the only weakness, being open-topped. Give them cover and be done with it.

Note your shortest real range is 36", on the Devil Dogs. Everything else is longer.

This is a list I think can punch my Tau in the jaw on turn 1 and call it a game.

It relies on hitting you with blasts, which is it's only weakness.

All of the Psyker Battle Squads are Overseer + 6 Psykers so they wound 99% of the troops in the game on 2+, thanks for wondering.

Run the shots down, see how well you really think you'll do.

Mech, infantry, semi-mech...this list has your number.

Enjoy, and please, comment.

There's plenty of competitive builds.

 

[EmoJosh]

That "Death" list isn't that scary. It's just trying to intimidate you, if those Medusas don't deliver it's an uphill battle. He;s not making use of his Vendettas and why the one random Devildog? That's a poor list imo, I agreed and disagreed with parts of what you said as far as the rest goes.

 

[==Me==]

The shortest range there is 36" from the Devil Dogs (2 of them), everything can reach out from further. It's a gauntlet that can cripple you turn 1 and keep firing to full effectiveness afterward, and anything that makes it gets BBQ'd.

Most points covered here, Yes The Truth Hurts: Discussion: Imperial Guard 'Death' List

 

[EmoJosh]

I just don't see it as a strong build as a personal opinion, any IG army can cripple anyone if the dice go right so that's not news. If you have insane scatter luck, yeah that'd be the list for you but it's to large a gamble for my tastes.

 

[Lord Borak]

There's a guy in a nearby GW who uses a list like that. He's a complete power gamer and generally i hate people who use lists like that.

Every list has a counter and that list can get seriously Mauled by drop podding armies as they'll generally get the first shots in on the Medusas. When those are gone, like Prince said, it's an up hill struggle.

PS: Death list got killed in my game.

 

[Intrepid]

I'm not quite comfortable with the original division of army types, especially since the term 'mechanized' has become ambiguous with the Valkyrie's arrival. Here is how I divide up Guard armies:

1. The 3V List.
3 Valkyries and/or Vendettas, transporting 3 Veteran squads, each of which has 3 special weapons. Larger lists include Chimerae with Veterans and possibly a favorite unit of the general's. This list is the one that gets all the attention but, aside from the Valks' Alpha Strike capability, I regard it as an exceedingly poor list. A Guard army that must get close to the enemy, and in small numbers? Why not just play Eldar?

2. Split Deployment
Lists that make significant use of outflanking units; most use Al'Rahem or plenty of penal legionnaires. It's a list that requires some skill and luck but I have found it reasonably effective. Its main strength is that your opponent cannot rely on a 'bum rush' strategy; its main weakness is dependence on rolling well for reserves.

3. Gun Line lists.
Lots of heavy weapons, leadership and men to order around. It's the signature Guard list, but one that has ceased to be popular since the recent emphasis on objectives. I think it's a bit unfair, myself; if you can hold your own and deny your enemy's then you've won, and this list can hold an objective better than any other army in 40k.

4. Armored
Lots of tanks and plenty of disposable infantry to speedbump attackers with. It is competitive if you don't mind squadroning your tanks and suffering massive attrition. The advantage is having lots of tanks performing at their peak for the entire game; the disadvantage is that a couple enemy models getting through the meatshield picket can cause havoc.

5. Hybrid
Any list that doesn't fit the above categories. Competitiveness is highly variable and depends mostly on how well the list fits the general's style.

6: Mechanized (Obsolete)
In the last edition a popular list was infantry with both heavy weapons and Chimerae. The latter served as bunkers, firebases and 'firebreaks' that prevented chain consolidation. I expected this list would be as popular today as before but it seems to have disappeared off the radar.


Further addressing the original post, I think that some units in the Guard Codex are viable but not suitable for a newcomer to Guard. A Chimelta torpedo is easy to use; Ogryn and stormtroopers are not so easy, and so it's proper to be cautious about advocating them to players asking for advice. There are also some players who work out a winning list and then never deviate from it, leading them to recommend the same solution to a problem regardless of context.

 

[EmoJosh]

All that's well and good but I have to disagree where you said competitiveness depends on how comfortable the player is with the army. A crappy list will get beat on even if you know it backwards and forwards by a good list that someone knows the basics of. List composition is very important.

The trick is to find out what style of player you are THAN make the best possible list for that type. Some lists are just never going to be competitive, no matter how great of a tactician you are. It's a fairly equal relationship, where neither can be excluded.

Yes that Death list isn't that "deathy".

 

[SandWyrm]

what's the points limit for these competitive builds? because none of them is raelly competitive if there is no points limit ^^.
thanks
antique_nova

1500 - 1850 Basic Tourney Range

I'm not looking for army lists tho. Just descriptions of the army's basic play style. If you had to explain one of these styles to a newb in a few paragraphs, what would you say?

 

[EmoJosh]

I'll do mine.

Basically, with mixed mech you have to know when to rush and when to play like a gunline. If I'm fighting a really aggressive, close range army I'll hold back, do damage to what I think will hurt his plan the most and see what happens.

If my opponent is really shooty, I'll go after him. My footmen give cover fire and disable some armor so he can't run from my advance. Than I just pick my battles and go from there.

In either case, I rely heavily on my Reserves. My army plays a very straight forward Hammer and Anvil strategy. If you get sucked into my lines, my Reserves come in, disable your armor or big threats and give me a boost. If I go to you, I'll try and force you to the sides where I can take maximum advantage. Everyone knows it's coming, but there's no way to stop it. I can always get LoS, always get the first shot and that's when I start to seal the win.

 

[LastDinosaur]

I'm working on somewhat of a gunline.. The twist being the inclusion of vendettas housing PCS, spam lascannons the first couple of turns, then grab/contest..

I haven't played it more than once as I haven't gotten all the V's yet. But I think it should do fairly well.


Also @ the 'Death' list posted by ==You==, the points are off on the PBS, for the listed cost there can only be 5 psykers.

 

[Utsujin]

I really think it comes down to the individual player as in how competitive their lists can be. I agree a hybrid list is probably the most overall effective. I used it a couple times... a nice fat platoon on one close objective pouring out anti APC power while my 4 vet squads and command go and kill other stuff. All mech is fun and intimidating though.

 

[Jemal]

Personally, I most enjoy the full-mech gunline.. or tankline, as I prefer to call it.
2 vendettas, 2 Leman Russes, 2 Basilsisks(Squad), 3 Armoured Sentinels(Squad), and three Chimeras full of guys with guns (Grenade launchers/Sniper Rifles and Autocannons).

No plasma, No Melta, no PSB, I just sit there and shoot my opponent to death.

it's undefeated in the 5 games I've played with it so far, and some of the people in my league have started complaining about how cheezy it is, so I'm probably gonna have to switch lists again.


(1750 pts if anybody's curious)

 

[EmoJosh]

That's not a cheesy list, most people tend to call anything they can't beat cheesy. They should try playing better first. :]

 

[Jemal]

Well, apparently All Vehicle = Cheeze.
I admit it's very effective, but I don't think it's cheezy myself. Unfortuantely, if I want to keep playing with people I have to give in to peer pressure and play a list that looses more often *sigh*