[MindRaked]

Hi, I've been reading the new codex and there are few questions I need answers to.

Weirdboys

1- "[...] a weirdboy must roll on the following table to find out which psychic power he must use this turn." (P.37). Does this mean he is forced to use a psychic power each turn ?

2- If a " 'ere we go" roll happen while the psycher is in a battlewagon or a trukk, does the whole trukk is moved or only the unit inside ?

Battlewaggon

1- You can take a big gun on your battle waggon, but there is a mention that say "does not include crew" (p. 102). Is this said in order to understand that the crew doesn't take up carrying space or does it mean that you need to man it with gretchins?

Deff rolla

1- If unit tries a death or glory (DOG) against a battlewagon with a deff rolla, does the hits resolves before the DOG attack, simultaneously or after ?

2- If I understand it correctly, it can also affect vehicles with lower frontal AV forced to give way to the battlewaggon, am I right ?

Ork Boys

1- If you give them all a Shoota, it replace both the slugga and the choppa. If so, does this means that Nobs can't replace their choppa with any upgrade since he doesn't have a choppa anymore ?

General questions

1- The Reinforced Ram seems to imply that orks vehicles can't tank shock without it, why ?

2- The Wreckin' ball rule states that it can inflict a hit to 1 unit within 2" of it. If I mount a wreckin' ball on a big crane on top of the vehicle and it can rotate 360°, does this mean that I can hit any unit within 2" of my vehicle ?

This is all for today...

 

[mynameisgrax]

I'm not sure about all your questions, but here's what I know offhand:

[1- "[...] a weirdboy must roll on the following table to find out which psychic power he must use this turn." (P.37). Does this mean he is forced to use a psychic power each turn ?]

Yes.

[2- If a " 'ere we go" roll happen while the psycher is in a battlewagon or a trukk, does the whole trukk is moved or only the unit inside ?]

The vehicles don't have 'ere we go', the ork does. If the weirdboy is attached to a unit, the whole unit takes advantage of it, but the vehicle isn't really part of the unit. At most, it's a transport attached to the unit, but still not part of the unit itself. So in short, they'd have to be outside the vehicle in order to take advantage of any additional movement.

On that note, I don't think the weirdboy's power goes off if they're in a transport. Technically, they're not really on the board. I could be wrong, but I don't see how it'd work in actual gameplay.


[1- If unit tries a death or glory (DOG) against a battlewagon with a deff rolla, does the hits resolves before the DOG attack, simultaneously or after ?]

It's like any normal death or glory attack. The death or glory goes first, then the deff rolla.


[1- You can take a big gun on your battle waggon, but there is a mention that say "does not include crew" (p. 102). Is this said in order to understand that the crew doesn't take up carrying space or does it mean that you need to man it with gretchins?]

Those guns, the zzap gun, lobba, and such, usually have a crew of grotts firing it. In this case, since it's a gun attached t to a vehicle, you don't have the crew, and one of the consequences is that the BS is 2, the same as the vehicles, rather than a grotts BS of 3. Remember, in 40k, every vehicle also comes with the crew piloting it, and firing the weapons. If you actually needed to add troops, they'd tell you.

[1- If you give them all a Shoota, it replace both the slugga and the choppa. If so, does this means that Nobs can't replace their choppa with any upgrade since he doesn't have a choppa anymore ?]

This is a point of fierce debate right now. As far as I know, there isn't a forced order in which you select upgrades, and it's resolved all at once. I'd say they can give the shoota nob an upgrade in exchange for their choppa, simply because it doesn't say otherwise.


[1- The Reinforced Ram seems to imply that orks vehicles can't tank shock without it, why?]

They aren't tanks. In 40k, the vehicle needs the word tank somewhere in their description to be able to tank shock. It's just rare in 40k to have a non-walker/non-skimmer that isn't a tank. Orks are one of the few exceptions.

[2- The Wreckin' ball rule states that it can inflict a hit to 1 unit within 2" of it. If I mount a wreckin' ball on a big crane on top of the vehicle and it can rotate 360°, does this mean that I can hit any unit within 2" of my vehicle ?]

Although I'm not positive, I'm pretty sure when they refer to 'it', they refer to the vehicle, not the wrecking ball. Otherwise, there's room for abuse (I'm envisioning giant cranes).

 

[MouseC112]

my thoughts

Weirdboys

1- "[...] a weirdboy must roll on the following table to find out which psychic power he must use this turn." (P.37). Does this mean he is forced to use a psychic power each turn ?
-He is not forced to use the ability, just that's the one he has an option/ is available.

2- If a " 'ere we go" roll happen while the psycher is in a battlewagon or a trukk, does the whole trukk is moved or only the unit inside ?
-I would play it as the old khorne rule, IE get out of the vehicle.

Battlewaggon

1- You can take a big gun on your battle waggon, but there is a mention that say "does not include crew" (p. 102). Is this said in order to understand that the crew doesn't take up carrying space or does it mean that you need to man it with gretchins?
-The gun is just a weapon mounted on the vehicle, the former crew is now irrelevant and not in play

Deff rolla

1- If unit tries a death or glory (DOG) against a battlewagon with a deff rolla, does the hits resolves before the DOG attack, simultaneously or after ?
-After the Death and glory IE if a unit Death and glories and the tank is destroyed the tank shock is stopped, if the unit fails to destroy the tank, crunch time

2- If I understand it correctly, it can also affect vehicles with lower frontal AV forced to give way to the battlewaggon, am I right ?
-yes by the wording anything that is affected by the normal tank shock rules, so it can cause hits vs vehicles right now. Beardy huh?

Ork Boys

1- If you give them all a Shoota, it replace both the slugga and the choppa. If so, does this means that Nobs can't replace their choppa with any upgrade since he doesn't have a choppa anymore ?
-This is something which is under debate where I play. BY RAW now the Nob is now forced to be equipped with a shoota, by what I believe the Nob has the Power Klaw but no additional combat weapon.

General questions

1- The Reinforced Ram seems to imply that orks vehicles can't tank shock without it, why ?
-I believe this is accidental. I believe it is supposed to just increase your armor value, not prevent you from tank shocking if you don't have it. IE tanks are bound by the normal tank rules still in the BRB.

2- The Wreckin' ball rule states that it can inflict a hit to 1 unit within 2" of it. If I mount a wreckin' ball on a big crane on top of the vehicle and it can rotate 360°, does this mean that I can hit any unit within 2" of my vehicle ?
-Yep 360 degrees, but remember by WYSIWYG, your now bound by where you chose to mount the wrecking ball.

 

[psichotykwyrm]

Weirdboys

1- "[...] a weirdboy must roll on the following table to find out which psychic power he must use this turn." (P.37). Does this mean he is forced to use a psychic power each turn ?
-He is not forced to use the ability, just that's the one he has an option/ is available.
-NO. The wording says "MUST"...

2- If a " 'ere we go" roll happen while the psycher is in a battlewagon or a trukk, does the whole trukk is moved or only the unit inside ?
-I would play it as the old khorne rule, IE get out of the vehicle.
-NO. You play it like a Farseer in a transport. No Psyker powers while in a Transport. Also, how exactly would a roll in the shooting phase make you get out, since you can only get out in the movement phase?

Hope that clears it up.

 

[MouseC112]

Disagree

Hope that clears it up.

I agree with the psyker rule, looked at the book last night, says must.

Me personally, if you roll Ere we go, I would give my opponent the option of getting out of the trukk. Seems fair and in theme to me. However not everyone plays that way. If the ability gives you a movement option, then why can't you use the movement option during the shooting phase to disembark. It doesn't say anywhere you cannot. And Yes you can use the psychic powers while in ork transports... they are open topped remember IE you can shoot out of them/ use psychic powers.

 

[mynameisgrax]

Yes and no

Yes, after a second look, since the vehicle is open topped, the psykers can use their power. However, since they're a separate unit from the transport, there's no way his power can affect it as well. Since you can't disembark in the shooting phase, there isn't a way of taking advantage of 'ere we go' while inside a transport. If you want to allow it, that's your choice, but there's no way of doing it within the rules.

I'm going to disagree with the 'tank shock' and 'shoota nobz' responses.

On the first point, the rules are very clear. Just because something has an armor value, doesn't mean you can tank shock with it. You can't tank shock with skimmers, after all. Ork vehicles aren't tanks, anymore than IG Sentinels, Dreadnaughts, or Killa Kans are. The only reason it seems odd is because it's the only transport I can think of, in 40k, which isn't either a tank or a skimmer.

What's that? You want proof? How about the upgrade that allows you to tank shock. I'd say that's a pretty good indicator that it can't tank shock normally.

As for shoota nobz, there is no solid precedent that I can think of to judge it by. The closest thing I can think of is warrior weapons for IG. The whole unit replaces their lasguns with either a laspistol and ccw, or two ccw. This does not restrict the sergeant in any way, if there is one. If someone has access to upgrades, you can always buy those upgrades, regardless of changes to the unit in general. The only reason they said 'replace the choppa' is to keep someone from trying to use both a PK and a choppa with the same model.

I could be wrong, but there is no precedent for it that I can find. We may have to wait for an official FAQ.

 

[MouseC112]

I'll be the first person to admit, while the ork book is good, it has a lot of questions resulting already. I'm guessing some of these may be a hint to 5th edition.

With regards to tank shocking: I'm at work, is a battlewagon classified as a tank? If it is it can tank shock with a dethrollar. You can tank shock with a Falcon or Wave serpant as they are classified as tanks. So it comes down to the unit description.

I am inclined to agree with grax on the power klaw. It is clearly written though "replace choppa." Which will case a large amount of arguments for and against ork players. I'm guessing this is something which will be clarified before the new GT season begins in the GT rules. Currently i'm inclined to say the Nob would be armed with a shoota and a power klaw, it seems to make sense with me. However, I will discuss it with opponents ahead of time, and if they insist on RAW... then my Nobs going to be holding a shoota.

So guess we're looking at a unit mounted in a vehicle wastes the ere we go ability. I'll buy that, kinda makes sense.

 

[Monkeyclops]

Few Things:

Only a "Tank" can Tank Schock, Ork Trukks are NOT Tanks and thus they can NOT Tank Shock. Giving them a Reinforced Ram allows them to now Tank Shock! Same with with Ork Buggies and Trakks, they can NOT perform a Tank Shock. However, I do believe that enemy models have to "give way to them" but they are not Tank Shocked and no morale check is made, they just move.

The Battlewagon and Looted Wagons are both clasified are Tanks, and thus can Tank Shock with or without the reinforced ram.

As for Shoota Boyz nob with a PK, I think it was an oversight by GW and will be clarified in a FAQ, whenver that may be.

 

[MouseC112]

Few Things:

Only a "Tank" can Tank Schock, Ork Trukks are NOT Tanks and thus they can NOT Tank Shock. Giving them a Reinforced Ram allows them to now Tank Shock! Same with with Ork Buggies and Trakks, they can NOT perform a Tank Shock. However, I do believe that enemy models have to "give way to them" but they are not Tank Shocked and no morale check is made, they just move.

The Battlewagon and Looted Wagons are both clasified are Tanks, and thus can Tank Shock with or without the reinforced ram.

As for Shoota Boyz nob with a PK, I think it was an oversight by GW and will be clarified in a FAQ, whenver that may be.

I inferred this whole time that people were only considering tank shocking with a battlewagon. Main reason for this is Trukks are not really a good choice to tank shock with anyway, and they definitely have never been tanks. As a result of it not being classified as a "tank" it cannot tank shock. Then it is bound by the regular rules for non-tank models. It cannot approach within an inch of another vehicle/ model. Models don't need to give way, the vehicle just stops.

 

[psichotykwyrm]

Ooops, forgot the open-topped thing...

So now I'm in agreement that you would use the power, obviously not affecting the vehicle.

 

[Blind-Hope]

I think the best argument for the whole 'shoota nob using a pk' issue is that in the White Dwarf battle report showcasing the new Ork rules it features a mob of shoota boys led by a nob with a power klaw. So I'd assume his final armament is shoota and klaw...

I'd guess it was just a badly worded upgrade option.

 

[mynameisgrax]

There you go then

I think the best argument for the whole 'shoota nob using a pk' issue is that in the White Dwarf battle report showcasing the new Ork rules it features a mob of shoota boys led by a nob with a power klaw. So I'd assume his final armament is shoota and klaw...

I'd guess it was just a badly worded upgrade option.

That's more or less definitive proof, as far as I'm concerned. If white dwarf says you can, then you can.

Upon closer inspection, yes, both looted vehicles and battlewagons are considered tanks, but trukks aren't. They can't tank shock, but I believe non-vehicles still have to give way for them, don't they?