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LRC cost?

802 Views 8 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  number6
Hi!

I have seen lot of people who are still paying 255 points for the Grey Knigth Land Rider Crusader (as it is written in the Daemonhunter codex). However, as far as I know the LRC should be updated according to the LRC which appears in the new codex: Space Marines. Therefore, the updated cost for the LRC is 265 and it includes the Machine Spirit, new assault cannon rules,etc...isn´t it?

Thanks
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Could you run that one by me? Now I need to get the New SM codex?
The problem with the whole issue is that GW never stated that the Grey Knight Land Raider or Grey Knight Land Raider Crusader use the new rules for the Space Marine Land Raider and Space Marine Land Raider Crusader. And they never said if we use the new or old point cost. And this doesn't include any forum posts made by GW employees, since those count for absolutely nothing in tournaments.

Basically, it's an issue of the name. The LRC in the SM codex isn't named "Grey Knight Land Raider Crusader", while the one in the DH codex is. Nit-picky, I know, but think about it: If we just fluffed it off and assumed they were the same, shouldn't "Grey Knight Terminators" just obey the rules for "Space Marine Terminators"?

I'm not trying to start an argument, so lets keep this civil. But until there is an official answer from GW (White Dwarf, Chapter Approved, Codex, or online FAQ), then the GK LRC and the SM LRC (and any other units with the same name problems) are different. This doesn't apply to things with identical names - Teleport Homers, Assault Cannons, etc - because they don't suffer from the army-based variations.
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This has been debated in numerous threads. Here are three recent ones:
Machine spirit
Rules Smackdown -- C: DH vs C: SM
Trouble with the codex.

The general -- although by no means univeral! -- consensus is that we get to follow all the rules for the Land Raider and Land Raider Crusader as presented in Codex: Space Marines, but we continue to pay the same costs as listed in Codex: Daemonhunters. Discussion can be found in the above links.

There are other items between the two codices that have differing costs beyond the LRC: teleport homers and power weapons and thunder hammers come to mind. It is not unusual for similar items to have differing costs depending on the army codex. GW apparently sees fit to find some things more valuable to some armies than others, and adjusts the point costs appropriately, if somewhat arbitrarily.

Therefore, unless you want to make a comprehensive points cost adjustment across all the codices, it's just best to use the updated rules in Codex: Space Marines where they conflict with the rules for the same items in Codex: Daemonhunters. But leave the points costs alone. In the end, it all balances out.

Once again, I stress that not everybody on this forum subscribes to this scenario. I myself DO, and I have never had an issue with either my friends or game store opponents or tournaments (though I've never been to an "official" GW tourney), and we all have no problems following this protocol. But it's best to confer with your opponents and make sure you are all on the same page, because the truth of the matter is there has yet been no "official" word from GW about what to do in this situation.

Be sure you all agree on what the word "fair" means. ;)
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I agree with number6 on one point: make sure everyone in your game agrees on which costs and rules to use beforehand.

But around me, the general consensus is to leave things with different names as their own units (as per my last post). So you might find that players in your area lean towards my interpretation or number6's. Just be friendly about it and work it out pre-game, with a die-roll if necessary. And cross your fingers for GW to finally update the DH FAQ...
Nope, I disagree, the gey knight land raider is a different vehicle entirely, just like the grey knight dreadnought which has 5 WS, it will not be changed, yet, anyways. The assault cannon will because it is the same gun in both dexes.
As a seperate but related point, what about the Land Raider which is purchasable as a transport option for an inquisitorial retinue.

The codex doesn't give it a Machine Spirit, but is this superceded by the Space Marine Codex, since, if I'm remembering right, they are both called 'Land Raider' in their unit entries.
The_Giant_Mantis said:
As a seperate but related point, what about the Land Raider which is purchasable as a transport option for an inquisitorial retinue.

The codex doesn't give it a Machine Spirit, but is this superceded by the Space Marine Codex, since, if I'm remembering right, they are both called 'Land Raider' in their unit entries.
Ultimately, it is exactly this quandry that led me to conclude that a "GK Land Raider" shouldn't be any different from a "Land Raider". And, by extension, a "GK Land Raider Crusader" shouldn't be any different from a "Land Raider Crusader". I just couldn't wrap my brain around an army that would allow an inquisitor to get, as a dedicated transport, a vehicle that is superior to the one available to the GKs. And beyond that, would it make any sense for two "Land Raider" tanks to be present in the same army that followed different sets of rules? Strictly from a gaming standpoint -- fluff aside, even -- I couldn't buy it. My personal version of common sense rebelled. ;)

Be that as it may, my conclusions should not be mistaken for official canon. I've no idea what a GW tournament's stance on this issue might be. It really is inexcusable that GW has allowed this confusion to continue unaddressed for so long. All it would take is a simple FAQ update....
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