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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Last night I played a game against SW + BA. The BA player dropped his Furisio next to a crisis suit squad and and fire warrior squad. He then pointed out that since he had a Lucius pattern drop pod (which I had never heard of), it allowed him to assault out of his pod. He killed the 5 or 6 crisis suits, and caused the fire warrior squad to flee off the table edge in our next movement. Bye bye 2 KPs.

Is this legal? It only costs 15 points more to give your dreads the ability to assault of the pod....a bargain in my opinion. Saves them getting to shot to death.

The Lucius pattern can be found on page 8 of the link below.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/pdf/IA2Update28Aug.pdf
 

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Generally the rules for FW stuff is that you check its Ok with your opponent beforehand. You SHOULD have the actual models for it and you SHOULD have the rules on hand. If not then it's pretty unsporting as the FW rules are not widely known or considered.
 

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Ya it's legal. It's one of the rare examples of a Forgeworld unit being incredibly good for it's cost. Most FW units have like a 10-20% markup in points. Consensus around L.O. is that they won't let the GW Pods count as Lucius Pattern, only the much more expensive FW Dread Pod.
 

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durus
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It's legal, if you have your opponents permission in fun games.

Most Tourney's that I know IA rules are not applicable.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Well, these guys did also proxy a SW assault squad, moved standard first turn then the next did the full move and assaulted a different crisis suit squad, killing all of them. When we asked how that squad could move so far, the SW player claimed he had told my Tau ally that he had told him at the start he was proxying them.

The thing is, what can I say? You guys suck, proceed to pack up my stuff and leave? I was pretty pissed off, but the second you call someone out for "cheating" you create bad vibes within your group, make enemies and ruin the night. The alternative? Sit there and take it, which is not in my personality to do. I had a proper rage to my mate after that game (WHICH WE WON). Don't get me wrong, these guys are really nice...they just seemed to bend the rules with a disregard for sportsmanship.

:S

edit: only AE had replied when I was writing this. Its a fun game, but they didn't ask permission / inform us of anything. Just gave us a few surprises. Which killed a lot of stuff.
 

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edit: only AE had replied when I was writing this. Its a fun game, but they didn't ask permission / inform us of anything. Just gave us a few surprises. Which killed a lot of stuff.
I had a chap with a 'nid army do this to me in my 2nd ever game of 40k. I told him I was a noob and could he please use a balanced, moderate list so not to completely annihilate me. The guy use a FW apocalypse creature and some other crazy stuff without codex, FW rules or even an army list! I know how unpleasant all this can be. That's why when I play I ALWAYS make sure I name everything as I put it down (even if it's wysiwyg) and always ask opponents if they'd mind doing the same. Most won't mind and it avoids this sort of horrible evening where one small thing like that can ruin the battle. I do very much feel your pain though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I had a chap with a 'nid army do this to me in my 2nd ever game of 40k. I told him I was a noob and could he please use a balanced, moderate list so not to completely annihilate me. The guy use a FW apocalypse creature and some other crazy stuff without codex, FW rules or even an army list!.
Probably so his W/D/L signature would look better, haha.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thats a shame, I hope you've found some nicer folks to game with! Back on topic, I am very much looking forward to using these pods (with my opponents permission). Blast them with an assault cannon, flame with a HF, then charge them. On turn 1! For 15 extra points! Priceless.
 

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Sounds out of order to me. I would never dream of proxying or pulling FW rules with someone i barely know. It should'nt be allowed. Can you imagine what would have happened if Napoleon could have proxied the second Panzer Grenadiers at Waterloo ? For starters this forum would be in French !
 

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Egg Head Miniatures:fbook
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I use these 'Lucious' pods alot. (see sig if you haven't seen what they look like)

Indeed your opponent sounds a bit of a scrote. I'm only repeating what has been said earlier but FW stuf isn't applicable in 99.99% of tourneys, with opponents permission in pick up games and, if in a club you are a member of, only within club rules.

In the club I attend all is legal except in tourneys so one can play with whatever you have on a normal club night. I'm lucky I suppose.
 

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I'm sorry that it happened to you. It's not fun. I agree with the consensus that all things like that should be cleared with all the opposing players. It just makes good sense.

Fortunately there's enough people in my gaming group that I just play other folks and not the guy who bends the rules. I've known one or two people like that and after enough people stop playing them often enough they eventually get the hint.
 

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That Which Has No Time
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That is insane, Draake. I'm very sorry you had to make that kind of experience. It is... tiring. I mean, what do these people think?

How to deal with those situations: you did exactly the right thing - you won! It's the best you can do. People who act unsportsman-like obviously care little for the fun of gaming and sharing it with their opponent: they want to win. And if you take that from them, you have stripped them of their sole pleasure, which serves them just right.
Apart from that I think that communication is the most important thing ever. These people should be told what you didn't like, maybe they act the way they do only because nobody ever told them it's wrong. But in the midst of the game there is much tension, and starting a discussion is almost never productive. You should make a remark that there is need for discussion after the game, and then go on playing. So when you go 'hey, how come your dreadnought assaults from the drop pod?' and he goes 'it's supposed to be a Lucius-pattern drop pod, the rules say you can assault from it', then I think it's best to say something like 'I can't consent with that. We'll have to talk about that after the game'. Then you can talk it over when tempers are cooled, when it doesn't disturb the game, and when the opponent doesn't suspect you're trying to take advantage of the rules. It is important to note the need for discussion, though, because if you lose and discuss an issue after the game the opponent may think you are just a bad loser in search of a scapegoat.

On proxying: my gaming group proxies a lot.
But first off -like the majority here- both players go through each unit in their list before we even roll for mission. You get introduced to your opponent's army in complete detail. This is one of the most important "rituals" we perform when playing our games.
And secondly we would not allow an all-infantry squad to be a proxy for an assault squad. It is perfectly okay for us to take two or three assault marines and fill the rest of the squad with infantry models if you are in need of them, but there has to be something in the unit that hints at its nature, because otherwise in the heat of the battle you could easily forget about it. It is okay within our group to use a Necron heavy destroyer as another normal destroyer in a destroyer squad, or using Pariah models as additional warriors in a warrior squad. But infantry marines as assault marines without at least a handful of jump packs in there is just insane.

On Forgeworld rules: we wanted to include them in our campaign and everyone went over the models and possibilities offered and conceived army lists. And when we met again next time we all agreed without any discussion that the plan to include the rules was stupid and that we should ban Imperial Armour from our games.
The point being that some Forgeworld models are just awesome models, not being particularly effective, some even being less effective than normal models. But there still is some units that just break game balance. The Lucius-pattern or the Deathstorm drop pod are two of those in our opinion. They are just too cheap for what they do...
And I totally agree that if you decide to use them you should at least make sure that your opponent knows what your units (can) do before setting up, and that he is okay with it and with you using those models and rules...
 

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Not that I'm contributing anything new here, but that kind of behavior is tantamount to cheating. I think Archer is dead on though, it's not worth getting bent out of shape over in the middle of a game. Talking to them after the fact and checking with your gaming group at large to get a feel for how it should be handled is your best bet. Or if you want to handle it in an unrproductive manner-- use your own FW rules next time! Proxy something even ;)

Edit: On a semi-related note-- 50pts for an infallible first turn dreadnought assault anywhere you want on the board? SHENANIGANS!
 

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What he did was the equivalent of pulling CoD stratagems out. If is is not standard 5th edition approved rules, then all should be discussed before hand. FW varient units and additional units are in the same category. Only thing FW an opponent cannot do anything about is replacement models for legal codex units (chapter specific ven dread, numerous IG models, etc) as they are model variants, not rules variants.
 

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I think that if forgeworld rules are allowed in the game then its fine so long as you have a copy of those rules - after all you should be looking at eachothers lists before the game and every point should be recorded.

I dont see a problem with using normal drop pods for it - they are very simular - only a little bit smaller and as others seem happy to use normal marines as assult if they have a few assult ones in there, how is the drop pod any different - its prob closer to what you intend it to be than if you use any count as unit for something else.

I like this drop pod and plan to use it in my next game. (it will be clearly written on the sheet and i will have a copy of the rules). We allow forgeworld stuff so there is nothing they can say about it ( i would however make it very clear what the difference is between this DP and a normal one) - just a shame you cant use it for vanguards.

I think forgeworld products are cool and have a Greater Knarloc from Tau sitting infront of me squaring up to a Librarian, and i think its value for money (looks cool even with my bad painting) but im sorry like 50£ for a drop pod - no thank you
 

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I support using proxy models (when experimenting with new units / armies you are considering for purchase), and variant rules (published by a reliable source, I dislike using house rules to play). However. I absolutely do not support either of these without your opponents prior consent.

I am friends with a CSM/Nid player who does this constantly, most particularly he insisted upon a convoluted set of house rules, to which he could adjust to benefit his situation. Absolutely infuriating, that!

I get around this by stating this to unfamiliar players prior to a game:
"I will only play by WYSIWYG and the official 5e rules as described within this book." -indicates to his BRB- "If you would like to play by proxy, or with variant rules inform me now, and we can discuss them. Otherwise, once the game begins, any sudden alteration to what we have agreed upon will be accepted as your declaration of resignation. I will immediately pack my models and thank you for the victory."

If they don't like it, we don't have to play. The afore mentioned friend almost ruined the hobby for me, and I have really taken a disliking to wasting my time with these sorts. You can't rely upon other players to mention these things prior to the game, but you can rely upon yourself to make the game rules perfectly clear before starting.

:beer:
 
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