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LO's Shadow Captain
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Hey, all. I've just been reading through the Chaos 'dex again, and this time, I actually read all the way through Lucius' entry .... and he seems, to me, to be pretty nifty. I was just wondering if anyone uses him, and if he's worth using? I did a little comparison here, trying to make a Lord that was similar to him (keep in mind, it might not be 100% legal):

[1] Lord
+Power Weapon
+Lash of Torment
+Aura of Acquiescence
+Daemonic Strength
+Combat Drugs
+Daemonic Aura
+Mark of Slaanesh
+Doom Siren
=180 points

180 compared to Lucius' 196. What does Lucius get above the Lord? Well, instead of a 5+ inv. his save is 4+ inv. Lucius also gets those extra attacks when in base to base contact with a "worthy" opponent - with the Mark of Slaanesh, he will usually be striking before this opponent, and will have a high chance of killing it with those extra attacks.

So. Is 16 points worth what you get over the Lord that I created above?

I'm tempted to say, yes.



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Lost Nemesis said:
So. Is 16 points worth what you get over the Lord that I created above?

I'm tempted to say, yes.
I don't think that's quite the question at hand. I think a more fair question is - "Is 180 points worth that Lord in the first place?"

In that case, I have to say "No." Lash of Torment is a poor choice for a weapon. It's primary effect is only useful in the first round of combat, the secondary effect is marginal at best, but is completely negated by the Aura of Aquiescence, which is a pretty poor choice for a power to begin with.

Lucius however is pretty nice. He has one of my favourite Minor Powers, and Martial Pride is a nifty ability to have as well. The addition of the Powerweapon is okay, but I would have dropped it in favour of saving points. The Lash is a powerweapon anyways, so the only reason to have the other one is to not have to take Daemon Weapon checks - how many of those do you fail to begin with? 1 out of 9?

So, I guess amongst all my ramblings, my opinion is - Lucius is nice, but not 196 points nice. I can build a leaner, meaner Lord and the only thing I lose out on is the 4+ invulnerable and the gaurunteed minor power.
 

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LO's Shadow Captain
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
And, the extra attacks against (most) enemy HQ's... ;)

I can see how he's not exactly the most effective Lord-build, but I wouldn't call him a points sink, and he could probably tear up enemies pretty well.

Honestly, I think the Lash of Torment is a brilliant weapon - that is, anyways, if it counters the IC having to be in base to base contact. If it does counter that, at least for one turn, Lucius will be able to deal a hefty amount of damage while using, in effective, the squad he's attached to as a shield.

Plus, I think it'd be a great modelling opportunity, as I'm not aware of any model for him.



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señor brushman!
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I think Luicius is somewhat worth it. I think that he's pretty hefty but you can get a better Daemon Prince for the same point costs. I think that his save could be a bit better....if he's against most hoards in CC like orks, tyranids; heck, even scarabs could kill him..His attacks would be dropped to 2 because of the WS of the scarabs and Lucious would have a tough time taking out every wound (because he can't instant kill them).

Imagine 8 scarabs (84 pts) killing Lucius. Lets see...

Lucius strikes first: 2 attacks; 1 hit; 1 wound. 23 scarab wounds left.

Scarabs attack back: 23 attacks; 8 hit; 3 wound; about 1 wound off Lucius.

Lucius gets his attacks back from being wounded 3 times: 2 hit; 2 wound; 21 scarab wounds left.

If I did this all the way out the scarabs would probally win. Anyway I kind've got off ramblying and this situation would be rare that lucius would be in combat with some scarabs but it just came to mind. I thought it would be funny having 8 scarabs kill Lucius :tongue:

Ben
 

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IAmAngel said:
ucious would have a tough time taking out every wound (because he can't instant kill them).
Sure he can. He has base strength five, and with Combat Drugs he can be up upgraded to strength 6. However, your point remains valid, except that nobody in their right mind would run Lucius by himself. He'd definetly have a unit with him, which can help him mop up the scarab bases.


Lost Nemesis said:
that is, anyways, if it counters the IC having to be in base to base contact. If it does counter that, at least for one turn, Lucius will be able to deal a hefty amount of damage while using, in effective, the squad he's attached to as a shield.
That is exactly what the Lash does (and another thing, but that's negated by the Aura). The problem is that it only works on the first round. After that, pile in moves force you to move into base to base contact.

The problem is this is really only practical when recieving a charge - if you charge, you're forced to try to reach base to base contact if you can. I know I have a hard time eyeing distances. A two inch margin is pretty tough to eyeball.

Lost Nemesis said:
Plus, I think it'd be a great modelling opportunity, as I'm not aware of any model for him.
No, there is no model for him. The UK GW site had a tutorial for how to convert him, but it looked pretty horrid.
 

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Always Fabulous
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I wouldn't call Lucius the Eternal a point sink but I would certainly prefer him to be more effective for the points he costs. As Lost Nemesis said, a Lord could be built that's better, stronger, and more effective in combat and only loses the 4+ Invulnerable Save and minor Psyker power. However, the Martial Pride ability adds flavour and so I would stick him with a unit of CC Noise Marines in a Rhino or something like that and run around challenging HQs while his 4+ Save protects him from more cannon-sniping than my opponents are usually comfortable with. Believe it or not, I think this guy could go head to head with most tooled up Lords and while he won't really make his points back, he should be fairly effective at killing them while his retinue piles in around and prevents the enemy from directing his hits back at your character. Did I mention that he has a Doom Siren?
 

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For me its all a question of whether you're able to use his minor psychic power or not in the game.

My friend used him against me and we allowed him to use the power, and he went on to shred a big squad of Nurgle Terminators, a Nurgle IC lieutenant, a big unit of bloated mutants, and 5 Chaos Spawn with the Fueled by Pain power being a major part in all of that.


Fluffwise, as well, I think he's very fun for a player because even when he gets killed you can say, 'He's coming back, and possessing/killing your general to do so!"
 

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i think lucius would rock worlds, think about it. if u put him at the back of a squad noise marines charging a lord+ retinue he could have 6A+1 for charging+3 for drugs which makes 9 attacks at strentgh 5 and unsaveble at I6 i think that is great!!!
 

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Librarian from Hell
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Grey said:
For me its all a question of whether you're able to use his minor psychic power or not in the game.
That was good of you but he would only need your consent to use the Chapter Approved Minor Psychic Powers. The ones Lucius has are from the Slaanesh armory and are as valid with or without the opponents consent as the power weapon he is wielding.
 

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Andusciassus said:
That was good of you but he would only need your consent to use the Chapter Approved Minor Psychic Powers. The ones Lucius has are from the Slaanesh armory and are as valid with or without the opponents consent as the power weapon he is wielding.

Really? I thought all minor powers, chaos or not were optional. Do you have a faq listing for me? If its listed as such, I'm taking some next time I take a Chaos force. :).
 

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Grey said:
Really? I thought all minor powers, chaos or not were optional. Do you have a faq listing for me? If its listed as such, I'm taking some next time I take a Chaos force. :).
There is no FAQ listing for it. It's a bit screwy how this works, but I'll try to explain it.

There are actually four different Minor Psyker Power listings in the Chaos Codex. One is in the Chaos Armoury, and is optional only. These powers are found in the Chapter Approved articles, and can be freely vetoed out of the game if your opponent doesn't consent.

In each of the Books of Chaos with the exception of Khorne is another Minor Psyker Power listing. These each have their own rules entry which mentions nothing about being optional.
 
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