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Son of LO
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My local gaming store is huge in three different areas: Warhammer (40k), Magic The Gathering and Role Playing. People usually have their little cliques on the weekend and they don't really mingle much aside from the 40k players leering evilly at the role players whenever they think that something benign is actually incredibly funny and laugh about it for hours.
This weekend, however, was a little different. We were'nt running the 40k league and there was a magic tournament with around 30 people playing. Me and my wife stopped in to play a quick game of IG vs Crons, and then during one of their breaks a bunch of kids came over to watch us battle it out.
The comments were amazing: "Oh man, that's soooo cool, I really want to play now", "This is one of the coolest games I've ever seen besides Magic", "Is that some kind of awesome battle fortress?" (in reference to the monolith) "Are all of those tanks?!?" (in reference to my IG army) "Can you teach me how to play?" "Where do I get the rule book?"
THEN the inevitable question came up: "How much did that cost you?" (Again, in reference to one of my tanks)
I told him and watched as he slowly did the comparison in his head. His comment was: "Wow, I never thought playing Magic was so cheap. Thanks for showing me your army, you must be rich"
Then he walked off along with all his friends.
A magic player telling me that 40k is too expensive?!? I used to play MTG a LOT and let me tell you it's nothing BUT expensive. This can only mean one thing to me: 40k is just not cost effective. I watched about 6 prospective customers walk away shaking their heads as soon as I mentioned how much one freakin tank costs.
GW: Please wake the hell up. If you have more customers, then you have more demand. When you have more demand, then you can mass produce more. When you mass produce more, then each unit produced becomes cheaper and in the long run you aren't losing any money if you make the product cheaper. It's simple really, but I guess that it's math that's too complicated for anyone outside of the American capitalist school of logic. CUT OVERHEAD COSTS. San Jose, CA / Duluth, GA do not NEED GW stores! Promote your product at the stores where it's already selling and lower prices. Then your customer base will expand and you'll watch your bottom line rise and rise. I love this game, but the company policies are driving me nutz. Waaaaaaagh!
 

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If I had not been playing GW games for years (since 1990 or so) and massed my fantasty armies based on lead figures (before the ban on lead toy products in the US), or picked up the plastics for rouge trader (when $30 US dollars got you 30 beak nosed marines, a WHOLE PLATOON!), I would have never gotten into GW games. Now after working for several years, I was able to update my armies with more of the newer figs and many of my old models ended up geting thrown out after moving quite a bit (it's expensive to lug all that game crap around).

GW is an expensive hobby. I do not say game, I say hobby. It is a labor of love to pick up minis, paint, and model them. GW products are simply too expensive to buy and just use to play a game, pushing unpainted figures around.

I think GW has taken it's fan base for granted over the past ten years. People are now demanding more for their product, and not willing to throw out half their army and eagerly pick up each new edition of fantasy/40K that came out every 3 years. There used to be a saying around each 'new' game GW pushed, wait a year, see if it is still being produced and then MAYBE pick it up. GW had a nasty habit of dumping the support for any game that did not sell in fantastic amounts (Necromunda, Gorkamorka, Man-o-War, 40K Epic, Bloodbowl, Dungeon Quest, BF Gothic, Space Hulk, to name a few). At least they are now making an effort to still have some support in the manner of providing the product and expanding the mini range on a limited effect. I also think GW is recognizing their share of the market might be shrinking unless they can get new, younger players into their games.

There are several other game systems out there that offer more cost efficient ways to get into playing. Many of the figures are not up to the qualtity of GW figs, but are very good. And there are other period/theme games for skirmish infantry based games also. WWII infantry skirmish games are available where you can pick up 30+ infantry for about $40 US dollars (no plastics here folks, all metal). that is a full platoon and basically an entire 'army' for most game systems. For the 'each figure representing one man' games, there are less costly games out there.

Wizkids have also introduced some neat games over the last few years. Mage Knight, Hero clicks (super hero combat), and the most recent entry, Mechwarrior are much more cost efficient in terms of getting minis to just play a game. I have found many kids love these games, as the product is decent looking (fair scultped figs that are already painted). You just buy a box and start playing. There is a collectable element, but if you were absolutely strapped for cash, $20 gets you units to play with and a rule system to boot. All in all, nothing near the expense of getting into GW games.

So if people ask, I say the truth. It is an expensive game. It is better to think of it as a hobby. I reccomend more cost efficient games out there if they are interested (like Void). And if they are still up to it, I tell them to work on a small, 550 point force, play a few games, and slowly expand their army.
 

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well said and done... It is expensive but if you have fun doing it then it doesn't really matter! Some one should give GW an economics lesson.
 

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Aye I agree, I really wish gw would drop there prices, it really is quite expensive. And on the part of mtg being expensive, I disagree, I have 3 decks, about 200 cards total, and I have only spent 40-50 dollars on the hobbys =\
 

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ok so we should try to get gw to lower thier prices how.

one idea is obviously stop buying them. on this site alone they would lose 2000 gamers. so if we each spent on average £10 a week that is £20,000 a week they would lose but it is still a small minority.

another idea which is linked with the first is to turn to other gaming systems to bring them to be rivals of gw (i.e void) which is why i might get soem but still we would need alot of people to do this.


there seems to be no way we will get gw to lower their prices so we might as well just accept them. i am open to suggestions.
 

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GW has been successful in the past because they continually change their product line every 2-3 years. And they have a large player base willing buy new products and accept the 'changes' in their game systems (face it folks, it is all about selling a new line of minis). Some sale slowdowns are coming with that line of thinking, so GW has moved into a new direction. They are adding to existing forces instead of forcing players to do a complete overhaul and not removing current models completely from the rule system.

The Demonhunters are a good example. This is a 'fluff' heavy force encouraging people that all ready play IG or SM to delve into this specialty army. Why IG and SM? Well, that is pretty much what a lot of people play. Why did Chaos get a new codex? Is it because they needed it? No, Chaos is a very popular mini line. GW figured they rework some old minis, change the rules to allow players to field variations of armies they currently have. The result are hordes of players that have chaos armies now out buying more product.

What is getting left behind though are new players. I think GW is becoming too dependant on existing players. It seems their target market group are people that currently play the game and have existing forces that either A- want to tweak them a bit or B- want to buy a new army. I am not sure if new players are making up the bulk of folks buying new armies. After all, if you have a 40K amry, you KNOW what the costs are and understand the financial commitment it takes to build a new force.

I think high prices (and face it, I think GW models ARE overpriced) are very short sighted. They are forcing the game into the hands of people that have a large disposable income. Teens would most likely be interested in playing and getting into the hobby (plus have the free time) but are shut out due to the high costs.

THE best way to keep the industry healthy is to support (by buying and playing) the games you like. GW is NOT the end all, be all, of mini gaming. There are other systems out there, check them out. If other systems are popular, and prices are lower, GW will bring their product prices in line. Right now they are the most popular system out there, and people mindlessly buy any new stuff they put out. Prices are not going to change soon.

I also suggest not ordering from GW directly and getting product from local retailers. Local retailers get GW items at a reduced price, GW woudl rather get the full retail price through direct sales from the consumer. From a previous post...

'However, I disagree about ordering things directly from GW. I suggest folks try to contact their local gaming store and see if they can get the book through their own distributors. GW has a nasty practice of really sticking it to independent retailers that want to carry their product. GW would much rather folks go to their stores or order items online/mail order. Why? Simply because they get more profit from sales if they sell directly to the consumer. Well that is business and more power to em, but I think you should support your local retailer.

Most local retailers I have seen provide a place for the gaming community to get together. And as a hobby, there are SO many other miniature wargames out there. Local shops are a great way to meet other folks and get your hands on other game systems and products outside the GW line. GW would love to have a base of players only interested in their line of games, be it card games (the new 40K), board games (Talisman, Dungeon Quest, or Space Hulk anyone?), or miniature wargames (from skirmish games up to full armies). But there are tons of other companies out there that have great games. Your local retailer is a good way to get introduced to them.

If you are REALLY hard pressed and have access to online companies only, you also have other sources outside of GW.'
 

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Normal member Fox D:
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Originally posted by cebwj@Oct 4 2003, 21:07
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U got that right... :D



one idea is obviously stop buying them. on this site alone they would lose 2000 gamers. so if we each spent on average £10 a week that is £20,000 a week they would lose but it is still a small minority.
Why? Because LO has over 2000 members? Well alot of members no longer post here, or never did. Plus I doubt even if there were 2000 active members on this board, that all of them would "Boycott" GW. I know I for one wouldn't.
People have tried it, and failed in a wonderful firework type display. I talked to one guy online who was trying to set one up...and within four days he was back playing and buying again.

another idea which is linked with the first is to turn to other gaming systems to bring them to be rivals of gw (i.e void) which is why i might get soem but still we would need alot of people to do this.
All very good and all, but GW are way to big at the moment..Granted I think this would be a better way than the first, and Im all for trying out new games, but because GW are so big and continuing to rapidly expand, it would be hard of any minor game system to catch up, and would also take, IMO, a rather long time.
 

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Right where do i start?

1998 GW messed up an internal memo went to the sales unit saying that for the 3rd edition of 40k there will be no price increase only problem is the guy that wrote it forgot to put the word NO IN THE MEMO so sales increased the prices, a memo came out to all stores stating that this was a cock-up but there will be no product recall as it would have been to expensive, so it was decided that there would be a price freeze on ALL models for at least 1 year, as it happened it froze for more than one the prices didnt change on a major scale until the new pricing codes came out.

I can tell you that there is NO ONE BIG ENOUGH to compete with GW in the sales or in customer numbers after all look at the U.K. roughly 115 stores serving 56million people, now look at the U.S. which the company are just starting to branch into (why do you think they changed to white metal?) at a rough estimate each state would have almost 150-300 stores now times that by 52 states, so once this happens there will never be anyone big enough to compete against them, so if you dont like the prices the answer is simple DON'T BUY THE BLOODY THINGS.
 

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all i know is that in the past 2 years ive met one new player and sadly im the one who taught him and bought like half his army (i get him $30.50 of stuff for his birthday and what do i get a lousy $20 bill, not even a card)
 

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decado it is your idea that noone is big enough to take on gw that means people dont want another gaming system so they dont try it. if people tried other systems then it would likely be that one of them could grow and then more people would try it and then it might be able to take gw on.
 

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when it comes down to it ladies and gents. theres nothing we can do. sure the game is expensive but we play for the love of playing. and to me that has no cost. If people find the game to expensive then so be it, if you wanna play but think it costs alot then build an army slowly. people get the impression that you have to buy everything at once. thats the big downfall. The way i see it is that the feeling you get when the tank you bought for $x amount of dollars just destroyed your opponents only chance for victory, and the look on his face
(much like this ---> :huh: :blink: <_<) makes it all worth while
 

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Son of LO
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hey, I'm not saying that I don't love the game and that I'm not gonna keep playing. I'll find the money somewhere. I'm just saying that GW's policies are less than favorable for expanding their customer base. It's a little ridiculous to watch so many customers walk away from the game like that. I'm sure they'll all be playing Mage Knight in a few weeks too. Too bad GW.
 

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I'm just saying that GW's policies are less than favorable for expanding their customer base. It's a little ridiculous to watch so many customers walk away from the game like that.
I have to agree on that point (and something I eluded to in my earlier posts). GW has got to do something with there prices for at least some of their models to encourage new players. Hell reducing the cost of the battle force boxes, or troop unit plastics, would help. Even starting small, a player has to make a huge initial investment to play 40K (US Dollars: $40 for the book, $15 for the codex, figure another $90+ for a battle force, and still have to buy another unit or HQ model to make it legal).

As for myself. I have not played 40K in a while. I keep looking at my Tau minis wondering if I will ever get the urge to finish painting them. I still pull out my WWII skirmish stuff. I am thinking about Dogs of War (a modern infantry skirmish game). And definitely been having a lot of fun playing Flames of War delving into painting the 15mm stuff with relish. Maybe my gaming tastes have matured over the years, but 40K with their high prices and tactically lacking game system (sorry, they still have not gotten away from assaults winning the game and god-like characters are beginning to rear their head) I think I am heading away from GW. But there is Void... and it has really gotten my attention.
 
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