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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi guys i am going to try a camo concept on a space marine squad. I have a base of information to start with from a White Dwarf mag I have. It is Scout used camo that will be used by my marines. In any war concept you have to try and blend into your environment to give yourself cover and stealth. With this being an obvious fact then i would assume that even in the year 40K where you would use cloaking of some aspect. This could mean inbuild scheme's switched from the suit AI(Artificial Intelligence). Maybe even the Predator cloaking concept who knows.

I have my 8 camo combos which i wil pick 2 from and do 2 x squad of 3 to see how it turns out.

I do like the Cobalt/Ammonium desert pattern and the Iron Oxide desert pattern. hmm sub - tropical forest pattern is nice also. Well will choose 2 and post my painted squads on here.

See attached scan: ENJOY

Remember guys we build the forums and sharing information and stuff is what it is all about.

PS: If you want the full scanned image i can email it to you just let me know?


Do not offer to send scanned pages. That is against LO's rules. - Kuffy
 

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i suggest u go with something that seems to stand out in the 40k world and that would be ruins and wastelands so for wastelands try something like that first desert pattern on the picture u posted for ruins and stuff i would suggest the third one down on the left side
 

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Hero of War
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Do you have a setting in ming that you want to use your marines in? If your aiming for an urban themed army, then I think the third one down on the right is good, where as if you are going for a desert scheme, then a different one would look better. For me, I like the jungle scheme, second down on the left.
 

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LO Zealot
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To tell you the truth I would go with the ice camo pattern... apart from that the really important thing is what your army oriented to... If the army is in a toxic waste world you can't use foliage camo... or in a ice world you can't use desert camo pattern...

So the proper is to see where the army is functioning and paint accordingly...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yea thanks for the input guys i think i dont really have a terrain in mind and would be thinking that maybe Urban Camo like you guys suggest, as most 40k has a urban type feel or moon effect that way the urban colour scheme would Chameleon in well with the environment. Will paint a set of 4 SM for now in that scheme and when they are finished attach the pictures on this topic.:sinister:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
thanks i think i might, says it was used by the Dark Angels. I really want to try and do it justice. make it something special. :act-up: I do like the pattern
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I am getting to work on that now just finishing basing my Chaos black legion and i will be trying out Codex Variation M38 urban Combat which has taken the poll vote by storm. i have a feeling that they will look truly amazing and if say fixed with Plasma guns could really shine.
 

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Chilli Fueled Heretic
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Pliss1010, You can easily imitate a camo scheme with three colours and iregular patterns. I did some desert camo scouts for my Emperors scorpions a while back. Remember to give the cloaks a drybrush of the same colour of the highlight of your base, they would smear them in dirt/sand/brickdust etc before the battle.


Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks Dan that looks real good i have a few detailed GW topics on Camo painting which are quite handy also. Real nice cloak there.
 

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Of the choices you have here I like the arctic pattern best for scouts.

There are vehicles painted in camo in some GW publications but other than scouts I do not recall anything in a post-RT* GW publication that would contradict the words of Rogal Dorn and Carab Culln, camo is the color of cowardice. People seem very eager to forget that the universe that GW created (and we all love) is not our own; the rules are not the same. Like comic books there are things that do not make sense in the real world. Camo is vital in the combat environment of our world and one could expect that marines would recognize that it's probably true in their world as well.

However, this expectation disregards the concept that this game was originally conceived as Fantasy Battles in Space. Marines are the analog of knights in shining armor. A medieval knight would never consider using camo (if he knew what it was). He needed to stand out on the battlefield. If he had a scary reputation, seeing him on the field was a psychological advantage for his side. Honor was involved. His deeds needed to be recognized and other worthy opponents needed to be able to find him so that smiting another worthy rep would add to his own. Sound familiar? This IS the core of the concept for the marines that we all love. In the world that GW has created, marines do not hide.

People seem to confuse the level of casualties in the game with the fluff. If marines in the game were closer to those portrayed by the Movie Marines rules, this discussion would never come up. Far too many marines become casualties in the standard game. The way they are portrayed in the fluff, power armor would need to be better than terminator armor is portrayed in the game. The investment in their creation and training would be wasted without the higher level of protection that camo would add. If their armor protected them in the game per the fluff and if they were as rock-hard as the Movie Marines, they would be absolutely fearsome in the field and would be standing out in the open utilizing that fear because their armor would protect them. Don't confuse game mechanics with the fluff. Use of the d6 has forced GW to water them down from their reputation. Per the fluff they should be shrugging off a lot of the attacks that kill them on bad dices rolls in the game. If they were able to do that in the game, the idea that they "need" camo (or would be smart enough to know that they "should" use it) would never arise because the fluff would not conflict with tabletop reality.

I have seen some beautifully painted marines in camo and while I may praise the paint job, it's with a proviso - not true to the concept. One can try to tie it to our real world conditions and extrapolate for their evermoreso dangerous weaponry but as usually happens when the real world is applied to 40K, the effort fails. Let's go the other direction with this argument. Do power armored warriors in Iraq use camo because everyone else is? Can't say because I've never seen one. ;) However, the troop type that does exist in both worlds does use camo in both worlds. Medieval knights and marines do not.

There are a number of concepts relating to marines that seem to set off the fluff nazis. Ordinarily I'm on the other side of the fence but on this one I proudly claim the label. Someone missing the analog connection and then trying to argue from a 20th/21st century platform sets my teeth on edge. I guess turnabout's fair play as I'm more than a little guilty of setting some people's teeth on edge with ideas I champion. :embarrassed:

Even if one doesn't accept the analog argument, one must admit that the 40K universe has a lot in common with the worlds portrayed in comics. Take the Marvel universe. Please, tell me it makes military sense in a world that closely approximates our own, for the military arm of S.H.I.E.L.D. to wear bright blue and white uniforms (not just blue helmets) and the military units of their most hated foe, Hydra, to wear bright green and yellow uniforms, both of which scream "Shoot me!" in just about any environment. It doesn't make military sense and they should be smart enough to know that. We accept it in the comics because we understand that the rules are just a bit skewed from our world. Why is it so difficult to see the same thing in another fictitious universe? The rules are slightly skewed from ours. Nine foot behemoths wear brightly colored armor, not because they're not smart enough to understand the advantages of camoflage; they do. They simply understand that this is an appropriate tool for lesser creatures - humans and xenos. A marine is brightly colored because the enemy in front of him NEEDS to know who is about to kill him and tremble at that thought. Witnesses to the glory of the marines' victory NEED to be able to identify them so that the glory of their deeds in the service of the Emperor can be spread. Camoflage violates the needs of the victims and the spectators and is therefore wrong for marines.

Like the other hot-button fluff topics this one is like American politics - one is on one side or the other, the other side wrong, and no amount of evidence will change that. You want camo, paint 'em. I'd like to see them when you're done. I'll compliment a good execution if appropriate and, I'll continue to point out that which needs to be pointed out. :devil:


* GW has disavowed or retconned so much of what was presented in RT that using it as canon is pretty much in the same arena as using the Black Library novels as canon.
 
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