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All Cav WoC General
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
UPDATED LIST POST #7


Lord
Sorcerer Lord
Mark of Slaanesh, Level 4, Dragon
Book of Secrets, Crown of Everlasting Conquest, Spell Familiar
Diabolic Splendour

Heroes
Sorcerer
Mark of Tzeentch, Level 2, Chariot
Infernal Puppet, Talisman of Protection

Sorcerer
Mark of Nurgle, Level 2, Chariot
Power Familiar, Dispel Scroll

Core
5 x Warhounds

5 x Warhounds

5 x Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Khorne, Flails

5 x Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Slaanesh, Flails, Throwing Axes, Musician

10 x Marauders

Special
6 x Chaos Knights
Standard, Musician
Rapturous Standard

6 x Chaos Knights
Standard, Musician
Banner of Wrath

PD: 12 + 1 Bound Spell
DD: 6 + 1 Dispel Scroll

Points: 2250

I know this list isn't much different from the others i've posted, but i wanted to have a new thread for this.

I want lots of critiques, where do you guys see weaknesses? strengths? What are some things to stay clear of? I'm looking for all the advice i can get with this list, even obvious things; if you think of it, post it.
 

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Schemer
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Alright, here's some comments. Make whatever you want from it.

Lord
Sorcerer Lord
Mark of Slaanesh, Level 4, Dragon
Book of Secrets, Crown of Everlasting Conquest, Spell Familiar
Diabolic Splendour

I never tried a dragon ride myself so I can't really comment on him. I feel stream of corruption and third eye of tzeentch could be better gifts instead of splendour.

Heroes
Sorcerer
Mark of Tzeentch, Level 2, Chariot
Infernal Puppet, Talisman of Protection

Ok, chariot mounts on the sorcerers gives both manoeuvrability and shooting protection. I still find it's a big gamble at 300 pts as they will likely flee if they get charge. Why not running the first on a disk and the second in one of the knight unit.


Sorcerer
Mark of Nurgle, Level 2, Chariot
Power Familiar, Dispel Scroll



Core
5 x Warhounds

5 x Warhounds

5 x Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Khorne, Flails

Pinkus was using units of 6 with LA and Flail and I tried both your setup and his. It might be wishful thinking but I feel as the +1AS and extra horsemen really made a difference.

5 x Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Slaanesh, Flails, Throwing Axes, Musician

Excellent to choice, still able to perform the same duty as above but added the baiting flexibility.

10 x Marauders

Special
6 x Chaos Knights
Standard, Musician
Rapturous Standard

I guess this is your only way to have an anvil unit. If spare points suddenly pop, I recommend MoS on both knight units. Some might not agree, but I lost games due to fleeing panic test.

6 x Chaos Knights
Standard, Musician
Banner of Wrath

PD: 12 + 1 Bound Spell
DD: 6 + 1 Dispel Scroll

Points: 2250

I know this list isn't much different from the others i've posted, but i wanted to have a new thread for this.

I want lots of critiques, where do you guys see weaknesses? strengths? What are some things to stay clear of? I'm looking for all the advice i can get with this list, even obvious things; if you think of it, post it.
Your army hits hard and fast, leaving little time for the enemy to reposition himself. As such I don't find the chariots a good idea as they will slow you down.
If you want to leave some unit behind to keep your flank and rear safe I suggest spawns since they are cheap, expendable and have a 360deg charge angle.

Otherwise I still think you need an extra unit. A unit that can act as both an anvil, a hammer and that messes up your opponent target priority.
This may sound weird but a slaanesh or undivided giant might actually be a nice solution. Your opponent can't really ignore him and if he do, he hits pretty hard and can hold about any unit in close combat. His only problem is his lack of protection but the amount of fire it will take to bring it down will make your other units survive longer. The giant idea however really need to be tested in battle.
 

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All Cav WoC General
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the comments.

Sorcerer Lord:
Diabolic Splendour is nasty with Slaanesh Lore (36" bubble of panic tests at -1 LD anyone?), however i was considering not marking my sorcerer lord. Heavens meshes with this army very well, as do the other lores he has access to, and it grants a lot of versatility.

Sorcerers/Chariots:
I like the idea of having more than 2 units that can deal some serious close combat damage, however, for their points they may be better off on horse and disc as you have mentioned. Could use the points for a giant or dragon ogres?

Marauder Horse:
I would most definitely take the 6 wide version..... but i don't have the models to do so, and at the moment i have to get this entire army painted (i have help) in around 6 weeks, adding more models to that is not something i wanna do lol.

Chaos Knights:
The rapturous was more there to insure that they don't break from combat, cause if they break, there goes a big part of my punch.

General thoughts:

I have considered spawns (i think in one of my posts you said it was a bad idea? lol) and am still considering them. They could be a huge help in tarpitting a unit. I also think a unit of Dragon ogres could be useful here, maybe instead of a giant. Or would a giant do this job better? Seeing as if cannons are targetting him, they aren't shooting my dragon or knights. Plus stubborn LD 10 with 6 T5 wounds is pretty nice. In order to fit him, i'd have to drop the chariots and a knight from each unit. Adding him and the Mounts for the sorcerers brings me to 2232. Giant or spawns?
 

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Schemer
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I have considered spawns (i think in one of my posts you said it was a bad idea? lol) and am still considering them. They could be a huge help in tarpitting a unit. I also think a unit of Dragon ogres could be useful here, maybe instead of a giant. Or would a giant do this job better? Seeing as if cannons are targetting him, they aren't shooting my dragon or knights. Plus stubborn LD 10 with 6 T5 wounds is pretty nice. In order to fit him, i'd have to drop the chariots and a knight from each unit. Adding him and the Mounts for the sorcerers brings me to 2232. Giant or spawns?
Lol! Sry for the contradiction (ideas were flying out of my head). Now that I think of it, the spawns are not a great idea (slow speed same as chariot...). I would look at stuff that have a 6 inch + movement only. Skyla might be good alternative but rather costly.

The dragon ogres are a pure hammer unit, the only time they will hold a charge is if you have the Banner of the Gods. Their problem comes mainly from the fact that they do not have a banner, nor musician and have US9. Now dragon ogres are not a bad idea but I only found four use for them:
- Taking out shooting units. They have the resilience to survive a lot of shooting, whatever it may be.
- Setting up a counter charge in the flank. The DO don't have command but if they join a fight, it won't matter.
- Countering your opponent heavy cavalry/chariot. S7 can get throught those tin case quite easily. Static res. doesn't matter in this case as you only need to kill a few knights.
- Taking out monsters or high thoughness unit without command.

As for the giant, it seems to go down quite often to shooting unfortunately. Very often the best way to play the giant is to charge very fast into the battle. As long as you fight units with S4 and lower, the giant will survive a long time. Be aware that a giant is quite overcosted (especially compared to a 175 pts hydra). I suggest you proxy one and see if you like it. Preferably against a shooty army because that's it bane... Anyhow, I don't think you can afford one as you loose 2 knights. I suggest you don't go below 6 knights as they are your main weapons.


Sorcerer Lord:
Diabolic Splendour is nasty with Slaanesh Lore (36" bubble of panic tests at -1 LD anyone?), however i was considering not marking my sorcerer lord. Heavens meshes with this army very well, as do the other lores he has access to, and it grants a lot of versatility.
I really love the idea of knowing a whole lore however the chaos lore are quite deadly. The main strength of the slaanesh lore (at least the one you can count on everygame) is making your unit frenzy (knights, marauder horsemen) and ecstatic seizures. Don't put a lot of faith in the psychological warfare it adds.
 

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Champion of Chaos
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The reason I like at least my tzeentch on a disc is because with this magic you force your opponent to come to you and being in a chariot with an 18" spell just doesn't work. That way you can get the curdling roar in your army.

On the flip side, having a chariot in the army isn't bad, because your goal is to make them come to you, you don't have to have your knights move forward, so you won't out run your chariot. With that in mind the giant isn't a bad idea neither. If they're coming to you, or you're hanging back, just keep your giant out of shooting range. I'd still rather not take him though.

Spawn are nice to protect your rear from scouts and march blockers. Way Watchers won't move into a spawns charge range very often. 1 might be worthwhile.

I've tried my hardest to get slaanesh horsemen to fit my army, they just always fall short. Their shooting is crap and for the same points their close combat ability is 50% as effective.
 

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Champion of Chaos
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2,415 Posts
Just saw predator's post he snuck in there.

Armies that care about panicking will panic, even on LD9 with the amount of tests you do. And who cares about frenzying your knights, well I do, its more fun to frenzy their units, or your dragon!

Dragon Ogres have their place even in non-BotG lists. They murderer most lizardmen infantry to shreds and most monsters too.
 

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All Cav WoC General
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693 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Updated List

Yes, an updated list already, with comments in mind.


Lord
Sorcerer Lord
Mark of Slaanesh, Level 4, Dragon
Book of Secrets, Crown of Everlasting Conquest, Spell Familiar
Diabolic Splendour

Heroes
Sorcerer
Mark of Tzeentch, Level 2, Disc
Infernal Puppet, Talisman of Protection
Bloodcurdling Roar

Sorcerer
Mark of Nurgle, Level 2, Chariot
Power Familiar, Dispel Scroll

Core
5 x Warhounds

5 x Warhounds

5 x Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Khorne, Flails

5 x Marauder Horsemen
Mark of Slaanesh, Flails, Throwing Axes, Musician
(May swap for Cruise missiles, pending play tests)

10 x Marauders

Special
6 x Chaos Knights
Standard, Musician
Rapturous Standard

6 x Chaos Knights
Standard, Musician
Banner of Wrath

Rare
Spawn

PD: 12 + 1 Bound Spell
DD: 6 + 1 Dispel Scroll
 

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I figure this is your list for Warmasters (as you indicated that you will be attending in another post), and if that is the case I pray that we don't face off else it will almost be a mirror match.

The few times I've tried swapping out Cruise Missiles for the Throwing Axes, Flails, MoS configuration I found the axes to under perform. Let us know how these work out for you, maybe I'm just using them wrong.

How do you play your dragon when matched up against cannons? I played a game on Thursday against and Empire list with 3 Great Cannons and found my Dragon go poof after trying to terror-bomb and shriek in the middle of his force.

Also, do they use objectives in the singles part of the tournament? Or is that only for doubles?

I hope I get my models all painted up in time for the tourney, if so I shall see you there!
 

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All Cav WoC General
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Good luck, hopefully we don't play each other, might be boring, or it could be really interesting.

I plan on doing exactly what you did against Empire for the most part, if a forest is around i can hide behind ill use that. Other wise, down in the middle and start hellshrieking and breathing on cannon crews, with Diabolic splendour and hellshriek something better panic.

Hopefully i'll see you there, and good luck.
 

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I guess I edited my post after you already replied, so I figure I'd make my question more explicit.

I've only found scenarios for the doubles portion of the tournament, is that also done for singles?
 

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All Cav WoC General
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Either they are the same or there aren't any. I can't see anything about singles scenarios.
 

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Schemer
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How do you play your dragon when matched up against cannons? I played a game on Thursday against and Empire list with 3 Great Cannons and found my Dragon go poof after trying to terror-bomb and shriek in the middle of his force.
Yep, that's the problem of cavalry/monster army, it's a target rich environement. Terror bombing might work but your gambling the game results on that one shot. Why not try to close an opponent unit and then once in close combat do the terror bombing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
could charge a unit to avoid being shot and then hellshriek from combat. Just make sure you're not risking failing breaktests and being rundown.
 

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Champion of Chaos
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I don't fear cannons all that much. If you land an inch from 1 with the others in line of it, the 1st one will have to guess 0" and pray for a 2" carry and the 2nd or 3rd cannon has a good chance to killing the first cannon. Also, when he's focusing on your cannons, your knights will be charging whatever weakness he has to protect those cannons.

It probably would take 2-3 cannon shots to kill you anyways, unless you're unlucky and he'd have to be lucky if all 3 cannon shots hit or if he rolls 6 wounds. Use terrain so only 1-2 can shoot at you and then charge the next turn. Combat is the saving grace here and our dragon does just fine in combat. Also, he's empire, he'll be failing panic/terror checks.
 

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All Cav WoC General
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Never thought of sitting right beside one of the cannons, good call.
 

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Schemer
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I don't fear cannons all that much. If you land an inch from 1 with the others in line of it, the 1st one will have to guess 0" and pray for a 2" carry and the 2nd or 3rd cannon has a good chance to killing the first cannon. Also, when he's focusing on your cannons, your knights will be charging whatever weakness he has to protect those cannons.

It probably would take 2-3 cannon shots to kill you anyways, unless you're unlucky and he'd have to be lucky if all 3 cannon shots hit or if he rolls 6 wounds. Use terrain so only 1-2 can shoot at you and then charge the next turn. Combat is the saving grace here and our dragon does just fine in combat. Also, he's empire, he'll be failing panic/terror checks.
Terrible idea imho. Any decent empire player will make a grape shot using the breath template. The force will be determine by the misfire dice (from 2 to 10 ) and it still does d6 wounds no save. Not only that but since you just got hit by a template your sorcerer lord will be most likely completely be fully under and your dragon only partially. Meaning he will get to hit both your sorcerer and your dragon (on 4+ ) ... Ouch!


-EDIT-
What I would do against a gun line (and correct me as I have never used a big flying monster). I would hide the dragon behind wood the first turn, then fly in a good position to charge a juicy target with another unit behind (a unit flank or a line of shooting/warmachine units), on turn 2 charge, smash the first unit and possibly overrun into a second one.
 

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I think grapeshot is d3 wounds against multi-wound models, and you still get armor saves its just armor piercing. But I don't have the book on me, so I could be wrong.

Also its not that bad on the sorcerer, he has a regen save so even if he gets no armor save he still stands a chance. On the dragon a partial hit for d3 wounds is much more preferable then a straight up cannon shot.

Cannons still scare me, but I think Pinkus' strategy is a solid one.
 

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Schemer
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I think grapeshot is d3 wounds against multi-wound models, and you still get armor saves its just armor piercing. But I don't have the book on me, so I could be wrong.

Also its not that bad on the sorcerer, he has a regen save so even if he gets no armor save he still stands a chance. On the dragon a partial hit for d3 wounds is much more preferable then a straight up cannon shot.

Cannons still scare me, but I think Pinkus' strategy is a solid one.
Ah! d3 wounds indeed... mmm not so nasty then if there is only one of them. I am still not very confortable with the idea, murphy's law tend to strike me to often when I do this kind of gamble.
 

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Champion of Chaos
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Your rider isn't based on some small area over the dragon, he counts for the full model as well, so he'd partial both of you. And on average it'll be str 5, call it 6 since you can't get a 5. This way he's more likely doing D3 wounds that need a 4+ to hit and a 4+ to wound my dragon. Or he could roll a 4 or 2 or misfire and my dragon will just shrug it off.
 

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All Cav WoC General
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sounds Viable, but i'd rather be in combat with something i know i can beat and cast spells, to stay completely clear of cannon fire. But if thats a problem this is a great idea.
 
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