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Chaos Icons.. How many do you run your lists with in a typical 1850 list.?

  • 1... Primary wave. Im a bit of a gambler...

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Icons?!?

I’ve seen many different opinions and preferences of the use of icons in players army list. I for one that has come to believe in them. At first when I started playing I thought they were not worth their points. I could get an extra model or 2, or maybe another gift that would be of benefit to my list. Thus, I played without them….. and lost many unit to the warp….

Lets face it… 40k has gone the way of assaulty armies. The first to reach their opponents and tear them limb from limb usually has a good chance of winning in the end. That being said, Demons do that without equal. Most of the units are assault and CC based. Only Tzeentch specializes in putting down some fire. So if your not firing, your trudging it towards the closest enemy.

Icons do 2 important things:

1. Minimize the randomness associated with a deep strike. Trying to drop Flamers close enough to an enemy unit to flame them is a risky situation. You have to get in that 12 inch danger zone at about 4-6 inches . With a properly placed icon, you can make a sure drop and take the risk right out of it.

2. Speeds up your army. It almost as if your 2nd and 3rd waves get turbo boosters for free. You don’t have to worry about dropping them 12 inches in back of your assaulting 1st wave. They may not even make it to an enemy until the 4th or 5th turn if you do. By then it may be too late. You can place them, within that magical 6 inches and whala, say hello to Mr. Soulgrinder.

I always run at least one icon in my primary wave if im playing a lower point game. Usually I run two, with one in each wave. They go on my bloodcrushers or bloodletters, which I know they will be in the thick of battle.

I'd say Icons are of lesser importance in an a Tzeentch army, where you are looking to drop a bit farther from the enemy. But running any of the other three, especially Khorne, Icons are just as valuable as hellblades.

Comments?? How do you run with your icons.???
 

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LO Zealot
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4,014 Posts
It sort of depends on your list, but I've found that having one in each wave is vital in order for your list to be consistent. At 1850 points or so, there's going to be enough units on the board that scattering in the wrong direction can easily cost you the entire unit.

One in each wave, no more and no less, and always in a troop unit (usually plaguebearers or pink horrors).
 

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In my opinion, Icons have to have a very deliberate purpose to be useful, they're really worth it as a safety net for bad deepstrikes, here's why.

Take the CC units of Khorne and Slaanesh for starters. Slaanesh doesn't really need an Icon because most of those units can move 18~24 inches in a turn to charge depending on fleet rolls. That leaves Khorne, who's slower. The problem is that to really utilize an icon, you have to be in the second wave. This means your best CC units can't get the charge until minimum turn 3 (and it's a 50% chance on turn 4). As a daemon player, you want your cc units in faster than that, otherwise they're not doing any damage for almost half the game.

That leaves shooters and Soul Grinders. Both of these units have enough range, you can DS at a safe distance, still be in range and not need an icon. Flamers, I can see the logic, but my usual targets for flamers are units my regular infantry won't be close to.

There's also the problem of who's carrying them. GDs and DPs can't, which would be awesome because you could deepstrike an army off your toughest and fastest units, but you're limited to heralds, troops, and Seekers. Where they do get useful, though, is when you're trying to make specific daemon bombs. If you're taking some seekers, or Heralds of Slaanesh or Tzeentch on a chariot, you can dive deep into enemy territory and deepstrike slower, but very durable, units like PBs or a GUO with Aura of Decay or BoC right into the heart of the enemy. Like a said before, you need a very deliberate plan to make icons worth it IMHO.

On a side not, in Planetstrike, icons are actually really useful. Savvy opponents will design "lava field" maps with lots of impassable terrain for your daemons to d/s into. Here, an icon, combined with the ability to assault out of d/s, is really useful.

If any of you haven't played Planetstrike yet, btw, I HIGHLY recommend it. It makes the game not only really fun for you as the daemon player, but my opponents seem to like playing me as well due to the nature of the army.
 

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Torn ACL FTL
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I never field icons.

Dr. Paris pretty much covered it. The first wave is the one that really needs them, and of course they don't benefit from them at all. Flamers don't benefit from icons either, since that trick working requires your opponent to sit next to an icon unit for a full turn, knowing you have Flamers in reserve (stupid). Shooters don't need them, cavalry/flyers don't need them, and Plaguebearers dropping on objectives don't need 'em.

Icons would be worth something if they were put down during deployment, Deep Striking into place before your first wave comes available. This makes them useful all game, but you give up the ability to move them, and since they go down in deployment your opponent can respond accordingly so it's not OTT (and you aren't forced to deploy near them, so you can try and trick your opponent). Instead of icons call them warp focal points or something and you're set. Buy as many as you like as "dedicated transports" outside the normal FoC.
 

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It is more of a points issue for me less than 1500 pts. I do not feild icons. If I play more than 1500 pts than I do take one in each wave.

I have often found them to be a tactical advantage at time not just for getting things to drop where I want but to take into account how my oppents will react when they get close to his lines. I have often seen an opponent shift his lines to my advantage just because they preceive the threat of flammers. Honestly though you can play with or without them depending on your play style. I don't see the point of only feilding one , Chaos has a way of going against your choices for first deployment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I've been on a roll, I've got my chosen wave my last 6 games.. :) Im sure its jinxed now....

It really comes down to what you field in your list.. I can see getting away with none in a Tzeentch list like ==ME== I believe plays. ( with all his shooty chariots ) Getting into combat isn't neccesarly the goal. I had recently played an all khorne list extensivly, and they were necessary to so that I could drop big groups effectivly and safetly close to the enemies lines. ( I had only 2 shooting gifts (death strikes) in my whole list) So getting ito combat was at a premium. If they were not hitting something the turn after they dropped, they were dead.

If your playing a mixed list, it comes down to a " do you feel lucky punk, well do ya" attitude. When ive played without them things have gone horribly wrong...... cursed dice i suspect.. When I have them in the list.. watch out.. Daemons incoming......
 

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Both I and my teammate in a recent doubles game rued not having an icon on his Tzeentch chariot to exploit a soft objective in the corner of the board.

Footslogging/jumppack marines and scenery clogging the entire area to block deepstriking and daemons practically tripping over each other as they came down infront of them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Huh..?? Taking a look at the voting I wouldn't have thought that many people opt to go iconless. Perhaps more people are playing the shootier armys than I suspected. I guess I just trained myself after the disaster of my first 3 games that I ever had with my Daemons to put them in, as I had 6 units go wayward and get lost in the warp... Incredibly bad luck on the drop and mishap roll I would attain that to. Ever since then, not a single lost unit. (knock,knock - on wood)
 

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The simple reason why I don't play with icons is because all the times I tried it I played with 2 icons and the one that gets in on the first waves got mishaps or got killed on the first turn...
 
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