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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am writing this thread because they're many new Eldar players out there. Everyone knows that new players lose a lot, but this is exceptionally true if that player is Eldar.

I have edited this because of all the codices that have been redone since it was written.

How many competitive games can be won by footslogging aspect warriors and guardians? So this is why I write.

Before proceeding please take a look at the following links.

http://www.librarium-online.com/for...s/157529-108-ways-play-win-warhammer-40k.html

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/eldar/131961-eldar-index-2008-a.html

Please note that some of the threads and links are old/outdated.



HQ-

Farseer- His ability to re-roll dice is what wins games. He has a vast array of options which make him a multipurpose and potentially expensive model.

His stat-line is decent, but his strength is irrelevant, given his weapon. His standard equipment make him a good model to begin with. His options make him either for a specific use or a multi-use.

Runes of Warding- This is a really good item for the price, practically a steal. With the new codices out, they have some pretty potent psychic power. This is now a must have for armies. You will thank me when you stop jaws of the wolf world.

Runes of Witnessing- These are decent items, but the points can usually be spent better else where. If you are casting more than one power a turn, consider these. Keep in mind they also increase your chances for a perils of the warp.

Spirit stones- No explanation needed here.

Singing Spear- I've found that these are more for a players personal taste. I usually take it if my model has 1 on it. I do enjoy throwing them at vehicles. Sometimes I split him off from his squad to assault a tank that hasn't moved. This is of course situation dependent. So the choice is yours.

Jetbike- This is a pricey, yet good upgrade. Use it for seer council squads.

Powers-

Doom- A must have for Banshees. A huge bonus for Dire Avengers. This is also statistically better than guide for BS4.

Guide- Doom is better for BS4 models, but BS3 models...mainly the falcon and war walkers become twice as good when cast on them

Mind War- This can be a fun time for any Eldar player. However I would never take this as a lone power on a farseer. It doesn't affect dice re-roll. Which as stated before, is my Eldar's path to victory.

Eldritch Storm- Probably the least popular of the the choices. This is because of its low Str and that is grants cover saves.Its not even really that nasty to vehicles because of its AP. (or lack). However, I have seen some fun things happen from spinning the vehicle around. I usually only take it as a secondary power and only in for fun games.

Fortune- Such a good power. If you have a seer council, don't even think about leaving home with out it. I use it for banshees as well.

*Nakarur- You also need to take care when upgrading your farseer. He should never have more than 2 powers, and should have points spent wisely. Sometimes it is more beneficial to have 2 seers with 1 power than 1 seer with 2 powers.



SEER COUNCIL-
These guys are an expensive unit, and can easily devour 1/4 or more of your points. These should be taken only in higher point games. Once again Eldar trickery with dice and psychic abilities come in the play here. These units also have an array of options at your disposal.

SpiritSeer- A must have if you they are babysitting a wrath unit.

Singing Spear- See Farseer statement.

Jetbike- A must have if your farseer has one. Here is where the points start piling up.

Powers-

Destructer- This is essentially a heavy flamer. A few of these and your opponent will have a hand full of dice in his hand for saves. Take care not to give them all this though. The points will be sky high.

Embolden- Not a bad idea, considering your farseer will be testing once or twice a turn. Also a lot of councils usually have some "naked" powerless warlocks in it. If you have extra points I suggest slapping on these on as extra security. 5 points to reroll all leadership tests is just awesome.

Enhance- It is crucial that your warlocks are hitting on 3s in CC against a majority of the units in the game. This will increase your dice count in to wound, and increase your opponents dice count in armour saves.

Conceal- This is not necessary for a seer council. Unless you are facing something that negates INV saves.

AUTARCH-

This guy is an assault unit. However his point costs keep him out of my army. Also his ability cannot compare with my Eldar favorite....re-rolling dice. But he is not an automatic no. He has a VAST armory at his disposal and can be fitted to compliment any aspect units abilities. If you are planning on taking him anyway, I will lay out some basic lay outs for which units he will be complimenting. He is also widely used for eldar armies doing the alpha strike. Which works for some people.

Warp Spiders- Warp Jump Generator, Power Weapon, Mandiblasers, and Fusion Gun

Swooping Hawks- Hawk Wings, Fusion Gun, mandiblasters, and power weapon

Banshees- Mandiblasters , power weapon, and fusion gun

Scorpions (only if mounted)- Mandiblasters, Power Weapon, Fusion Gun.

Dire Avengers(exarch shoulve have defend and PW/Shimmer shield or Dire sword)- Mandiblasters, Power Weapon, Fushion gun.

Dark Reapers- Reaper Launcher, mandiblasters, Chainsword or power weapon

Shining Spears- Jetbike, Laser Lance or power weapon, Mandiblasters, fushion gun

Also if you are going to put him with your jetbike council, give him a Jetbike, power weapon, mandiblasters, Fushion gun. (dont take the lance because there is a good chance you are going to get bogged down)

AVATAR +PHOENIX LORDS-
Avatars are too slow for mech lists, but can are good for hybrid and foot slogging lists.

P. Lords- Just avoid these for competitive play. For fun pick whatever one you want.



ELITES-

Striking Scorpions- These guys are tougher than Banshees, but lack fleet. Which makes them more undesirable than their sisters. Their ability to infiltrate makes them worthwhile, of course at a high cost.

Recommended Unit size- 6+

Always upgrade to an exarch. Then you can choose his weapon.

Exarch Weapons-
Power Claw- This thing is good, but he will lose his +1A and fight last. But gives you a good chance to knock down a vehicle and get the last couple kills so you dont lose combat.

Biting Blade- This is also another viable option, but again he will lose his +1A

Chain Sabres- These are Bad.

Exarch Powers-
Shadow Strike- If they do not have a transport, then they are taking this. Outflank with them. Too many turns on the board spells certain doom for these guys.

Stalker- Not necessary but so helpful. Since these guys come stock with plasmas, they will be undoubtly your cover hiding, objective holding troop assaulters.

**Elendor- On a side note, I think it should be mentioned that if a Striking Scorpion Exarch takes a claw, he still has his chainsabre. Thus, I believe you can choose which weapon to attack with. I did this in my last game; I needed him to attack at I6 so I chose not to use the claw that turn. So basically you could choose to either attack at S6 I1 or at S4 I6.

Fire Dragons-

Recommended Unit size- 5-6

These guys must ALWAYS have a transport, whether a falcon or wave serpeant.
The exarch here is optional, although he does add quite a punch to the unit.

Exarch Options:
Fire Pike- I've found this weapons usefulness kind of limited. It's basically if the unit doesn't get killed the turn they pop out...they get to move and shoot and may be in double dice range for the exarch. So take at your own discretion.

Dragons Breath Flamer-There is alot of debate on this weapon, because once you start making alot of wounds..good people will stack up the melta shots and then take armour saves. But overall its a great weapon combined with crack shot. It allows for multi purpose of the unit.

Exarch Powers:
Tank Hunters- A very helpful upgrade. Steep price though.

Crack Shot- Not always necessary, because undoubtly these cats will be in a transport. It is crucial that you drop them off at a point where 50% of the hull is NOT cover by terrain. It can and will be necessary against MEQ armies. All their tanks come with smoke launchers, which are very annoying.



Wraith Guard

These guys are tough, no one can deny them that. Although the points of a unit of them is really steep. And it is noteworthy to mention that the price of the models are steep as well. (thank you GW) These guys need a transport because they are slow slow. They also need a warlock. Which brings their unit price to over 300 points.

I wont go in to this unit any farther.

HOWLING BANSHEES

This unit with all power weapons is a dream come true. The problem is that they have a low str. This can be properly negated if you attach a Farseer with Doom to them. Which you should ALWAYS do. This unit ALWAYS needs a wave serpeant. The falcon has too small capacity.

Recommended unit size- 7-10

Always upgrade to an exarch.

Weapons:
Executioner- A good weapon giving it a higher str. Although removing 2 dice from your hand when attacking, which is a big no no in my book. Although the extra str bonus of the weapon can give you a chance to wound high T things or armor.

Mirror Swords- Sweet weapons, adding dice to my hands.

Triskele- No, your unit will be running most of the time or in transport. There wont be much shooting going on from these ladies.

Powers-
War Shout- Good power, however units that are likely to fail LD tests, are likely to have ws3 as well. However turning it over on their side can grant them a 5 to hit, which is always fun. But most of the time units cannot survive more than 1 your initial assault.

Acrobatic- Good! until your opponent realizes how tough they are when they assault. That will be the last time he charges them.

Harlequins

These guys are good. I have seen a few threads on debating them with banshees. But the fact of the matter is ....they are too expensive and cannot have a dedicated transport. That being said. Leave them on the shelf.

TROOPS

DIRE AVENGERS-

Your bread and butter! These guys are worth it. Dont be afraid of their Str and T. Always field in groups of either 5 or 10.

Exarch- A must if you have 10, not if you have 5.

Exarch Weapons-
Power weapon and Shimmer Shield- Its a good setup, but rarely used. There is a better choice. But the inv save is nice.

2 shuriken catapults-DO IT! This gives him 5 shots that hit on 2s with bladestorm. You can't pass it up for the point costs.

Dire Sword- In theory a good weapon. But on the tabletop, a waste.

Powers-
Blade storm- A must have. DICE COUNT.

Defend- It is fine, but I like to leave my Avengers out of CC.

These guys need a transport.

Rangers-
These guys are snipers with a good special ability. Their ability to become pathfinders are good

Recommended unit size -5-6

Guardian Defenders-
These guys are good targets and that is about it. They are bad at holding objectives without cover. They are generally bad at most things. But there is some good in them.

The unit can have a warlock (see above) with a power. I like to choose embolden for defenders, as they will be taking alot of damage in the game and be taking alot of tests. Conceal is also a good choice, should they think they are going to hold an objectives in the open.

They get a heavy weapon platform. Since they have a low BS, always choose a multishot weapon. Scatter lasers are a good choice as they have long range and alot of shots. (if only star cannons were higher str....)

Recommended unit size- 15 +warlock

STORM GUARDIANS

Often underestimated and left out of the game. These guys pack a punch from what anyone is expecting. and most importantly...they are a troop choice!

Recommended unit size-10

These guys have the option to have 2 assault weapons. Either flamers or meltas...which are both good weapons. I leave the tank hunting to other units though and go ahead and take the flamers.

The warlock is crucial to this unit. 2 powers come to mind with this unit. Destructer and Enhance. Destructer combined with 2 flamer templates can put alot of dice in your opponenets hand. But enhance can help with MEQs and that when they fight back (which they will) they will need 4s instead of 3s on assault round 1.

NakaRuru*-- If you are going to give them fusion guns they are looking to hunt tanks and MCs, I would recommend the singing spear for the warlock to give them a 3rd ranged attack against those targets, also embolden is a good power as they often times will get shot and forced to make a test if they get out of a transport.
This unit needs a transport. Give them a wave serpeant.

*emp.-Make sure when you make a late push for objectives (or to something in cover) you tank shot the squad you're assault, because the troops need to move this will bunch them up 1" around the tank (saying you choose to stop on top as tanks have priority), majority of the time this tactic will now allow you to *auto-hit* and wound more models to the squad you're going after.


Guardian Jetbikes-
These guys are fast and mobile and not good at shooting or assaulting. But they are good at grabbing objectives!

I would leave them in reserve to conserve their life span. Use their speed to grab and objective as opposed to contesting (with tanks).

If they plan to be ont he board the whole game, warlocks are a fine addition. The power you choose should not be conceal and probably not enhance. Either embolden or destructor. This is pricey though.

Shuriken cannons can be added at your own leisure. Don't expect much. Although you may get lucky enough to pop a rear armor tank.

*emp. - For jetbikes, remember that you have a 6" assault move no matter what, so you can play "hide and seek" by darting out of cover to shoot, and than back behind in the assault phase which keeps them a solid viable option to survive until turn 5+.


FAST ATTACK-
Shining Spears-
These guys can pack a punch on the charge. However their high point costs, keeps them out of most lists. But if you do take them..

Recommended size- 3 or 5.

Take the Exarch, you wont regret it.

Shuriken Cannon- Go ahead, but be ready to shave it if you need points.

Power weapon- Don't do it.

Star Lance- Take this. Its a close range bright lance.

Powers-
Skilled rider- is a little steep for what it does. But it is not worthless. Be ready to shave this if you need points.

Withdraw- I would take this, the last thing you want is something dumb happening and getting locked in combat. These guys need to always be getting out of assaults they are in.

*emp- Just clarify how the str6 power weapon attacks for Shining Spears only apply when they initiate combat, otherwise they are indeed str3 normal attacks. And as one hand is used for driving and one for the lance, they do *not get +1 attack for two 1 handed weapons, and so have a base of 1 attack and 2 on the charge.


Warp Spiders-
Pricey, but their warp packs make them fast enough for a mech army.

Recommended unit size-5-6

Take the Exarch always.

Exarch Options-
Additional Death Spinner-- the number of shots makes this the most popular choice. Remember...its about the amount of dice!

Spinneret rifle- Opposite of "additional Death spinner"

Power blades- I prefer to keep costs down, and keep these guys out of assault. Should they get in, these are nice, but the low str against meq..

Exarch Powers-
Surprise Assault- Is a worthless upgrade, they already come with deepstrike standard.

Withdraw- Good, because your opportune will want to assault you. But then you will need to run away. To shoot again. If you have to cut 1 power to save points, cut this one.

SWOOPING HAWKS-

These guys are generally not worth their steep point costs. Against IG infantry though they can do wonders. It takes alot of armor or low save infantry...which IG has both.

Recommended unit size-5+

Always take the Exarch.

Exarch Options-
Power weapon- Not needed.
Hawks Talon- Not enough dice in hand for my liking.
Sun-rifle- This is what I'm talking about. One of those..."Can I borrow your dice...I don't have enough" moments.

Exarch powers-
Sky-Leap- Good power. At most it allows your hawks to be in play 3 turns a game. Which isnt all that bad, the longer they are on the table, the more chance they have at dying. Plus the pie-plate when you come back in is good.

Intercept- Good for its point costs. Be prepared to shave though.

VYPER SQUADRON-
Vyper have low armor, high speed, and big guns. You have to be very careful with them. Or you will watch alot of points get taken off the board as fast as it was put on.

These guys need to make use of their speed and cover. The idea is to help mow down infantry when playing GEQ and shoot the rear or sides of tanks.

Recommended unit size- 1

Options- never give these guys bright lances. Too pricey of a fragile unit than. Double Shuriken Cannons is always a fun combo. EML are good weapons too but bring the price up a bit too high for my liking.

Do not give it any upgrades for the vehicle. This is a waste of points.

HEAVY SUPPORT-
Heavy weapon Battery- NO

Dark Reapers- These guys are good but have little place in a mech list. I will not even go into detail on them/

WraithLord-
Far too slow in my opinion, but can be a good bullet magnet.

If you take this guy. assume he will not make it into combat. No one will come within 12" of him. Give him 2 guns, since he has a higher BS, single shot weapons are a go ahead.

War Walkers-
These can be used in Mech lists because they have scout abilities.

Recommended unit size-3

Weapon options- Try not to give these guys single shot weapons. You will cry when you miss 50% of the time. Leave the tank busting to wave serpents and fire prisms. They are excellent troop slayers and transport poppers. Use outflank to conserve their life and give them a good position. Always use cover.

Weapon Choices: All scatter lasers, All EML (a guide seer goes around them then.) or all shuriken cannons.

Falcon-

This bad boy is left out of many lists, because of the high point cost it takes to field it right, and its low BS. But it has the ability to have 3 heavy weapons and can transport 6 people. It is a multipurpose model, which is why it costs more in the end.

Weapons- Unless you plan on guiding him, take either a Shuriken cannon or Scatter laser. You will thank yourself with multi shot weapons.

If you have the points to spare the shuriken cannon upgrade isn't a bad idea. More dice, reasonable power.

Vehicle upgrades:
Spirit stones -are a must if they are carrying people.
Holofields- Take these. They are not as good in 5th edition, but still are worth it. The falcon is too expensive to let go without a fight.
Star Engines- No, you need to be able to shoot every turn you can.
Vectored Engines-5th edition really makes this upgrade unnecessary now.

Transpolar: It is popular to put fire dragons in here, as there are one of the few squads that can still be good and have a low model count.

It is also a good idea to stick 5 DA in it, so the falcon has objective claiming ability. Just dont let them get out!

I personally put a guideseer in here and give the falcon all sorts of re-rolling dice!

FIRE PRISMS-

This guy is the backbone of the fire base in an eldar army. His beam is a powerful weapon of destruction. His ability to combine is so good, you'd be a fool to pass up.

Options- in lower point games give them nothing.

Spirit Stones arn't bad idea. I've had them stranded away from my army before and have dreadnaughts catch them....

Vectored engines=No

Star Engines- no

Holofields- Too pricey for small games, but in large games its great cause while regardless he wont be shooting, he will still be alive and be able to propose a threat.

Night Spinner
New entry from spear head, hurray.

This guy is really fun to use and can put the hurting on heavy infantry armies, but the kicker is that most competitive armies have no foot infantry...

They DO have the ability to hurt high armour tanks, but it is rare. The main benefit is the mono-filament web rule, which is just wonderful. I recommend using this guy against hybrid armies and for fun. If you are feeling lucky, take this bad boy.

Competitive lists of mine still consist of 2 prisms and 1 war walker squad.

As for upgrades: refer back the fire prism entry on it.

TRANSPORTS
Wave Serpeant-This guy is the meat and potatoes.

Any weapon is fine for his turret because he get thems twin linked! (except star cannons) Spirit stones are the only upgrade worth while for this tank, as he will always need to stay moving cause of his cargo. Stuff aspect warrior HERE!!!!


****Fleeting Æther-A tactic I learned from Fritz at WayOfSaimHann, is when placing objectives in Seize Ground (3-5 objectives,) is to place one of your objectives exactly 12" away from another objective, this way you Wave Serpent (if placed in the correct way) can be contesting or controlling 2 objectives at once due to it's immense length (I believe they're roughly 7" long, even longer if you have the Forgeworld variant upgrade.) I use this trick all the time, and it frustrates opponents to no end when you can dedicate forces needed elsewhere due to one troop doing double duty on a pair of objectives. As most Eldar tactics are, this is an excelent force multiplier since you can accomplish more tasks with less units, and with mech Eldar, we need to be able to do as many things as we can with the units we have in the time we are allowed.[/

PHEW!!! So now that you have good background about units for a mech eldar list. I have a few sample lists for you to look over and help your while you design you own list.

HQ- Farseer w/Doom

Elites- 9 Howling Banshees w/ Exarch, Mirror Swords

Wave Serpeant 1/ TL EML and Spirit Stones

Troops- 10 Dire Avengers w/Exarch, Dual Shuriken Catapults, Blade Storm

Wave Serpent w/ TL BL and Spirit stones

5 Rangers

Heavy Support- Fire Prism

Fire Prism

TOTAL 998


HQ-Farseer w/Doom, Spirit Stones, and Fortune

Farseer w/ Guide

ELITES-10 Howling Banshees w/Exarch, Mirror Swords, Acrobatic

Wave Serpeant w/ TL EML and Spirit Stones

TROOPS-10 Dire Avengers w/ Exarch, Dual Catapults, Blade Storm

Wave Serpeant w/ TL Shuriken Cannon and Spirit Stones

10 Storm Guardians w/ Warlock, Destructer, 2 Flamers

Wave Serpeant w/ TL EML and Spirit Stones

5 Rangers

Heavy Support-Fire Prism

Fire Prism

Fire Prism

Total: 1496



***FartsMcGee-Something else that i thought should be brought up in a thread for new to mech eldar is our inherent weaknesses.

Low armor values are a big problem for us, even though we have all sorts of trickery to negate the low armor it poses a fairly major problem for us be cause a str 7 gun is just about as dangerous as a str 10 gun.

Second: Inherently low model counts. This one hurts a ton because it means that there is very little room for error. When a piece of the machine fails unexpectedly it has a nasty tendency to take the rest of the army with it.

Third: Power Fists/Claws/Krak and Melta nades. For horde and foot slogging armies these weapons are typically of very little consequence, for us it takes our mobility away, when our transports start to spill our few models about everywhere its painful.

Fourth: Insufficient killing power. Some might disagree with me about this but even given bladestorm and prism shots we can't match the fire power of other armies and its easy to get drawn into a shoot out if we're not careful.

Fifth: Very little staying power. Once we get out or shot out of our transports it has to end quickly.

So when playing mech eldar you have to work to minimize these weaknesses and do everything you can to keep your opponent from exploiting them. This usually entails surgical strikes at heavy support units, proper application of counter point units (i.e. wraithlords), and a LOT of fortune and cover saves, and probably most importantly keep your vehicles OUT OF ASSAULT unless you are giving them 6's to hit from a flat out, but even then its still risky.

Oh and a couple of rules that you will get called on a lot.

1. YES you can tank shock through buildings, you just have to take a dangerous terrain check.

2. YES you can cast doom, fortune, and guide from inside a transport. You MAY NOT cast it to the inside of a different transport. You MAY NOT cast mind war or eldrich storm from inside a vehicle. You DO NOT need line of sight for any of the non-shooting abilities.

3. YES you can move and assault banshees out of a transport as long as it didn't move AT ALL (including the free pivot) before they disembarked. The transport MAY move and shoot still, just not flat out.

4. NO you can't ram for a str 11 or above hit.

5. Wave serpents DO NOT allow for extra dice on rending (from shooting) on front and side armor

6. YES Banshees do assault into cover and go first.

7. YES Star engines let you move 36". 24" in the movement phase and 12" in the shooting.

8. YES you can selectively tank shock by flying over units that you don't want to tank shock. Which REALLY makes people mad.

9. Movement with a skimmer is ALWAYS horizontal, even if they are going up or down.

10. YES you really can park your skimmer there. Just be sure to take a terrain check EVERY TIME you start AND end a movement phase there.




DISCLAIMER- If you disagree with anything above, please post politely and I will edit accordingly. If anyone has anything to add, please post here or PM me. Credit will be given where due.

GOOD LUCK MECH ELDAR!


More Examples:

Farseer w/ Guide

5 Fire Dragons
-Wave Serpent w/ Twin Linked Shuriken Cannons and Spirit Stones

5 Dire Avengers
-Wave Serpent w/ Twin Linked Eldar Missile Launcher and Spirit Stones

5 Dire Avengers
-Wave Serpent w/ Twin Linked Eldar Missile Launcher and Spirit Stones

Fire Prism

Fire Prism

Night Spinner

1000 Points

6 Grav tanks to boot!
 

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Simple Green.
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969 Posts
I like this it's a good basis for Mech Eldar lists. If I may be so inclined to ask you to add though;

1) Just clarify how the str6 power weapon attacks for Shining Spears only apply when they initiate combat, otherwise they are indeed str3 normal attacks. And as one hand is used for driving and one for the lance, they do *not get +1 attack for two 1 handed weapons, and so have a base of 1 attack and 2 on the charge.

2) For jetbikes, remember that you have a 6" assault move no matter what, so you can play "hide and seek" by darting out of cover to shoot, and than back behind in the assault phase which keeps them a solid viable option to survive until turn 5+.

3) For the storm guardians I personally favor the 2 flamers and destructor combo. This bypasses their low BS. Make sure when you make a late push for objectives (or to something in cover) you tank shot the squad you're assault, because the troops need to move this will bunch them up 1" around the tank (saying you choose to stop on top as tanks have priority), majority of the time this tactic will now allow you to *auto-hit* and wound more models to the squad you're going after.

4) My personal opinion on the Autarch, if used always go with the Mandiblasters, unless of course you're kitting him out to shoot, than don't even worry about adding this or the mask. Autarchs come with plasma grenades (when they charge they go by Initiative order), and with an Initiative of 7 they will be going first most of the time either way, the +1 attack benefits more.

:thumbs up:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I like this it's a good basis for Mech Eldar lists. If I may be so inclined to ask you to add though;

1) Just clarify how the str6 power weapon attacks for Shining Spears only apply when they initiate combat, otherwise they are indeed str3 normal attacks. And as one hand is used for driving and one for the lance, they do *not get +1 attack for two 1 handed weapons, and so have a base of 1 attack and 2 on the charge. Added. I guess it is foolish to assume that a new player would realize this.

2) For jetbikes, remember that you have a 6" assault move no matter what, so you can play "hide and seek" by darting out of cover to shoot, and than back behind in the assault phase which keeps them a solid viable option to survive until turn 5+. Added. I can't believe this slipped my mind.

3) For the storm guardians I personally favor the 2 flamers and destructor combo. This bypasses their low BS. Make sure when you make a late push for objectives (or to something in cover) you tank shot the squad you're assault, because the troops need to move this will bunch them up 1" around the tank (saying you choose to stop on top as tanks have priority), majority of the time this tactic will now allow you to *auto-hit* and wound more models to the squad you're going after. Added.

4) My personal opinion on the Autarch, if used always go with the Mandiblasters, unless of course you're kitting him out to shoot, than don't even worry about adding this or the mask. Autarchs come with plasma grenades (when they charge they go by Initiative order), and with an Initiative of 7 they will be going first most of the time either way, the +1 attack benefits more. Noted in Autarch section.

:thumbs up:
Thanks!




I just watched your rep go from 56-57 and gain a star.
 

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Simple Green.
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969 Posts
Hah, interesting we both hit 7's

Oh how could I forgot to add the most important note, if you play anti-tank army, make sure you sacrifice one of your friend's models to the dice gods for good luck. Why your friends you ask? Well why the hell would you sacrifice your own? That's just stupid..... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hah, interesting we both hit 7's

Oh how could I forgot to add the most important note, if you play anti-tank army, make sure you sacrifice one of your friend's models to the dice gods for good luck. Why your friends you ask? Well why the hell would you sacrifice your own? That's just stupid..... ;)
And both our names are eric....this is getting weird.

and true that. Pray to the dice gods!
 

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One big thing I would point to is the Autarchs master strategist (sp? ) in a mech list, two Autarchs or even just one greatly increase the power of going into reserve with the whole list.

Since this is for beginners you could also say something about not taking alot of powers on your farseer. I generally only take 1 unless I have spirit stones and almost never take 3 powers.

Firedragons, I find the exarch is generally wasted points, but the flamer with crackshot is one of the only ways you can make the firedragons slightly multi purpose rerolling flamer makes them a bit better against hordes. Not the best setup but it can be useful if you don't know what you will face.

Harlies, the shadowseer and their ability to rend MCs and have fusions guns makes them a bit better than you make them out to be, not my preference but think they do have some perks.

Rangers, I find it odd that you bash other units for being to slow then praise rangers, they like most other slow units will be left behind in a mech list.

Guardian defenders, in cover they will last about as long as even points of rangers and the heavy weapon does give them some options, I do agree that they don't fit into mech lists well.

Storm guardians, If you are going to give them fusion guns they are looking to hunt tanks and MCs, I would recommend the singing spear for the warlock to give them a 3rd ranged attack against those targets, also embolden is a good power as they often times will get shot and forced to make a test if they get out of a transport. The chance of rerolling a farseers tests can also be a consideration.

Guardian jetbikes, I'm not a big fan of usinging bikes only as objective grabbers, 6 with 2 cannons a warlock with a spear and embolden makes the unit well rounded able to threaten AV move quickly and put out a decent number of shots. They don't fit the mech army as well because they give enemy small arms something to shoot at but feel they have uses still.

Warpspiders, Suprise assault is a useless power, all jump infantry (which spiders are ) get deepstrike for free.

Warwalkers, I feel that even with scout the fact that they are stuck moving so slowly makes them a hard sell in a mech list. YMMV

Lastly I think the lists you posted are competitive but that many fireprisms may make your enemies call cheese. Perhaps you could make one that is a bit more friendly?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
One big thing I would point to is the Autarchs master strategist (sp? ) in a mech list, two Autarchs or even just one greatly increase the power of going into reserve with the whole list.Mech Lists generally need all their tanks on the board at once. Since they are only getting a handful of shots a turn (until the transports get within range) they need to maximize what they have. keeping any tank in reserves will minamize this affect.

Since this is for beginners you could also say something about not taking alot of powers on your farseer. I generally only take 1 unless I have spirit stones and almost never take 3 powers. Agreed. Added.

Firedragons, I find the exarch is generally wasted points, but the flamer with crackshot is one of the only ways you can make the firedragons slightly multi purpose rerolling flamer makes them a bit better against hordes. Not the best setup but it can be useful if you don't know what you will face. While this is true, I do not think it is a good tactic, exspecially for beginners.

Harlies, the shadowseer and their ability to rend MCs and have fusions guns makes them a bit better than you make them out to be, not my preference but think they do have some perks. Yeah they are good, after you start upgrading everything the points sky rocket for the unit. And nothing will change they only havea 5+ save.

Rangers, I find it odd that you bash other units for being to slow then praise rangers, they like most other slow units will be left behind in a mech list. Leaving rangers behind is exactly the point, is it not? Considering 2/3 missions are objective based...and they can infiltrate. 1 mission allows your objective to be in the deployment zone and 1 does not. Either way you are for sure getting that objective on Turn 1 and your rangers are in cover on turn 1, and the cover should be a good shooting position. (assuming you set up your side terrain good)

Guardian defenders, in cover they will last about as long as even points of rangers and the heavy weapon does give them some options, I do agree that they don't fit into mech lists well. Agreed. I don't 100% dis-like them.

Storm guardians, If you are going to give them fusion guns they are looking to hunt tanks and MCs, I would recommend the singing spear for the warlock to give them a 3rd ranged attack against those targets, also embolden is a good power as they often times will get shot and forced to make a test if they get out of a transport. Agreed, Added. The chance of rerolling a farseers tests can also be a consideration. This was addressed in my thread already.

Guardian jetbikes, I'm not a big fan of usinging bikes only as objective grabbers, 6 with 2 cannons a warlock with a spear and embolden makes the unit well rounded able to threaten AV move quickly and put out a decent number of shots. They don't fit the mech army as well because they give enemy small arms something to shoot at but feel they have uses still. They are fun units, they just start to get too expensive when you add on all the toys. Will note in thread.

Warpspiders, Suprise assault is a useless power, all jump infantry (which spiders are ) get deepstrike for free. I apologize, I misread the rules. Corrected.

Warwalkers, I feel that even with scout the fact that they are stuck moving so slowly makes them a hard sell in a mech list. YMMV What is YMMV? If they outflank, they can move into cover hopefully the turn they arrive, This will give them a decent firing position and give them a chance get cover saves.

Lastly I think the lists you posted are competitive but that many fireprisms may make your enemies call cheese. What mech eldar list doesnt have the ability to be labeled as cheese? Perhaps you could make one that is a bit more friendly? I will.


Thanks for the input!
 

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Reserve lists work best with mech. The whole point is to use the speed to hit your enemy hard in a short period of time at his weakest point while limiting the amount of time your units can be targeted. If your opponent doesn't move forward at all from his starting line then you come in and play like normal just with a few less turns. If he advances then it is even less distance that the transports and their cargo have to travel to get to prime targets. While multiple tanks are hard to kill in 5-7 rounds, they become even harder to kill in 3-5 rounds that you get by running reserve.

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary. I put that in because some people feel the scout move / outflank give the walkers enough speed I feel differently.

You talk about rangers holding an objective from round 1 with a mech list I don't even think about objectives until round 4 maybe round 3 if I will need to get one on the other side of the board. Rangers give your opponent a static target to go after, you are then forced to either let them die or throw your generally outnumbered units at the enemy to try and halt the enemy advance.

I base alot of my mech playing around the speed of the list. This is why I am negative on rangers and warwalkers for mech. If it can not shift 12-24" in one round it either falls behind and dies or becomes an anchor that the rest of the list has to stay by negating my speed.

Mech is fluid, with the speed and reserve options if played well it can not be pinned down. Why make it more static by adding slow moving units or units that can not move and shoot?
 

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Great, excellent, amazing post. It covers all the bases, and gives people a good idea on how to run a Mech list. Originally I was going to disagree about the harliquins, but since you're running a Mech list, I couldnt agree more!

Heck! Even your statement about Storm Guardians was spot on with my view of them!

Also, I would add for people to not be afraid to use Wave Serpents as actual tanks. They do a pretty darned good job of it (best dedicated transport in the game. The thing can duel even the best tanks in the game and win!)
 

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Also, I would add for people to not be afraid to use Wave Serpents as actual tanks. They do a pretty darned good job of it (best dedicated transport in the game. The thing can duel even the best tanks in the game and win!)
Lately I've been running mine with just TL cannon and spirit stones and I've been having a lot of success with it. The extra points frees up enough for something that the enemy has to shoot at first (ie a falcon) so your transports actually get your troops there without being shot at too much. The problem I have with waveserpents is that if the enemy gets a pen hit then theres a good chance that the serpents usefulness is going to go waay down. It only has one good weapon, so a weapon destroyed really hurts (especially if you went all out 45 points for a BL). Its greatest asset is its speed so immobilized will take that away. Most other "tank" tanks can take one of either of these results and not be near-useless, (think of LR, LR with sponsons, predators, etc) but the serpent really gets affected. And when you are paying 145 a pop that really hurts.

Btw eric nice job on the comprehensive overview, is this page going to become a sticky? (it should!)
 

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A couple of quick point about a few things. DA's in a falcon may NOT claim objectives unless they disembark, only dedicated transports have the luxury of sitting on an objective with troops.

Crack shot for fire pike'd fire dragon tank hunter exarchs: I don't know how much valkyrie IG you guys face off against but in my neck of the woods these players are creeping up everywhere. A huge part of their strategy relies on picking up a cover save and dropping troops off. Likewise with tau with their obscure everything rules, the crack shot makes the fire dragons a real threat to every tank, plus with the pike it turns the unit into a str 9 AP1 unit with an effective range of 24" or 18" + 12" if they are in a falcon/waveserpent. If you play the dragons at range you give up the melta dice (which is a shame) but you can cook valkyries and hammerheads at will, while still giving yourself the benefit of cover saves and taking theirs away. Think of the amount of area denial you provide yourself with an anti-tank unit that can nail something with str 9 AP 1 at 24" and never afford it a save.

Now before everyone says that dragons work best as a cheap unit and the goal of the wave serpent/falcon is to get em close cause we're mech and that's what we do, think about it this way, how often does your dragon strategy involve a suicide mission? And how many other units in your army would you ever send on a suicide mission?

Playing eldar, especially mech eldar, its pretty important that we not get stuck in a point swap mentality. Sure it's an easy comparison and a useful tool in figuring out what pulls its weight and what doesn't. But when people get ready to swap 96 points for more points on the other side just cause it costs em points we tend to ignore the fact that we play a strict role army, and its still 5th ed! Crap low point units win games! Every unit has a very specified function, and when we willingly give up arguably our most specialized unit on a suicide mission i feel like its akin to a carpenter saying, "Well, that screwdriver did something yesterday, but i'm gonna leave it at home today cause i still got my hammer and saw, and well both those hit harder."

My two cents on the Banshee exarch. Personally i think mirrorswords ain't so hot. Cool model btw, but the aspect of the banshee isn't horde control its our hard counter to specialized high save units. It's not uncommon for some of these units to have higher toughness, such as with the mark of nurgle, biker units, 2+ tyrants and so on. As such, the mirrorswords don't enhance in this role as much as the executioner, extra dice don't mean much when you are throwing for 6's. I'd much rather have 3 shots for 4's than 5 shots for 6's. Not to mention it keeps the banshees fighting when something T7 or 8 comes along, otherwise they are fodder.

My thoughts on the DA exarch. I usually run a pair of DA squads in all of my lists and I'm a big fan of bladestorm peak-a-boo with the serpent. But lets not forget that bladestorm in fact costs you half a round of shooting in the long run. If you are getting back into a serpent and giving up a round of shooting that's fine and there's no penalty there. However, the DA's are a great unit for kiting CC units. With 18" range they can stay completely out of assault range barring fleet of foot, (and even then it'd be pretty lucky) and usually get two rounds of shooting 20 shots. So the exarch isn't as essential as it may seem.

Wraithlords - If you are at all inclined to run hybrid lists, this should be where the hybrid goes, but kit em light, if he breaches the 160 mark you've done something wrong!

Warlock power: spiritseer. Unless you are playing a static list (which we're not cause we're mech eldar) this usually isn't that big of a boost, as both warlock and wraithlord will be moving toward the enemy, and if they are going different places the extra 6" isn't that much of a help.

Warwalkers: Not my favorite weapon. For around the same price you can get squad of spiders which have a lot more flexibility and mobility and the same number of str6 shots with better aim. If you put bigger weapons on em they become even more of a liability.

Prisms: Good stuff, but don't bank on em too much. Most armies will have a means of disabling them with glances turn after turn. Their main strength is their insane range, but this makes the prism have a tendency to stay pretty far out of support range, and subsequently easily lost. With a mech eldar list, its all about strength of one strike, prolonged conflicts tend to end poorly for us, a prism can definitely add to the power of the strike, but they only offer one shot out of 115 points and with cover readily available the utility of that shot diminishes quickly. I don't think that the prism really over shadows the other heavy support choices that much.
 

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Prisms: Good stuff, but don't bank on em too much. Most armies will have a means of disabling them with glances turn after turn. Their main strength is their insane range, but this makes the prism have a tendency to stay pretty far out of support range, and subsequently easily lost. With a mech eldar list, its all about strength of one strike, prolonged conflicts tend to end poorly for us, a prism can definitely add to the power of the strike, but they only offer one shot out of 115 points and with cover readily available the utility of that shot diminishes quickly. I don't think that the prism really over shadows the other heavy support choices that much.

I like all that you said, if I may just ask your opinions on better mech list Heavy Support Options? What do you favor?
 

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Personally, I never leave home with out a wraithlord. Usually I'll kit him with just a sword and run him along side a transport with a seer inside. I love em, cause he usually scores very high on target priority and give my transports a free walk. Or if you play more of a hybrid list he makes for insane support for the slogging units. People don't fear guardians, but they won't come near guardians and a wraithlord.

Another oft over looked unit is the falcon. With the chance for holo-fields this puppy makes for another unbelievable fire sink. Two shots of AP2 is tough to overlook. I like em for dragon delivery, I've also run seer councils in em before too, casting fortune on a falcon and flat outing it directly into the middle of the opponent's army not only is a great way to get your seer council in the mix, but again gives your other transports a free walk to the action, if your opponent doesn't take the time and effort to shut down the falcon then they have the serious problem of a fortune'd council and guide'd falcon in their face.

I do think that the prism is great, the opportunity to move 12" and fire 60" at insane strength and AP can't be overstated, but the problem with em is that they lack tactical flexibility, and mech eldar is far more about the reaction to the opponent's threat rather than posing our own.
 

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Nice post.

Now some considerations.

Vectored engines: they are not worthless. They are too pricey for what they do but imagine the difference between getting you tbanshee transport imobilized or wrecked. In second case not only you lose the transport but you unit will auto disembark. pew pew bye bye banshees. But again are too pricey

Fire prism spirit stones. i also run naked prisms but when i know i`ll encounter close combat armies i sometimes take these as they make the difference between a dead and an alive prism.

As for the mech list ..evenin hybrid/nidzilla wraithlords are nice, they are not mech so their lists are not mech lists :D
 

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I'd just like to add that Swooping Hawks use Skyleap after Deep Strike which pretty much enables them to stay (hover?) frosty out of the table for... well... whole game if you wish.
 

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A couple of quick point about a few things. DA's in a falcon may NOT claim objectives unless they disembark, only dedicated transports have the luxury of sitting on an objective with troops.
Quote from page 90 of the BRB:

"Unit of Troops embarked in a transport can control objectives (measure the distance to the vehicle's hull)."

Nowhere in there is a mention of being dedicated. Unless I see it otherwise, I'd play that its fine for DAs to be in a falcon and claim an objective.
 

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Thanks to all who posted in here, it's been a big help to at least this new player. Don't have a lot to add as of now, still going through some casual games with some buddies while we get a better grasp on the rules/build up our armies and hit up the LGS. But I will say that I graduated from the DiW Fire Prism acadamy. Love em. Waiting for my third to come in the mail.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Reserve lists work best with mech. The whole point is to use the speed to hit your enemy hard in a short period of time at his weakest point while limiting the amount of time your units can be targeted. If your opponent doesn't move forward at all from his starting line then you come in and play like normal just with a few less turns. If he advances then it is even less distance that the transports and their cargo have to travel to get to prime targets. While multiple tanks are hard to kill in 5-7 rounds, they become even harder to kill in 3-5 rounds that you get by running reserve. I disagree. More and more armies are becoming armor heavy. Leaving off tanks is leaving off a shot yourself per turn. And you start at the board edge. Sure you can move 24" but you risk getting immobilised and give up another shot with your heavy weapon. Having all your tanks on the board at turn 1, gives you several heavy weapon shots to take down the greatest threats to your tanks. Starting with even 3/4 of your tanks a turn is still not giving me enough shots on my first turn. Also my wave serpeants travel together. Their unison of assaults and shooting (with the cargo) makes them like a mop, wiping an entire flank once they get to the other side. Having only 1 wave serpeant run up on the enemy is asking for trouble. But having 2-3 is having some serious trouble on them. But to each their own. If it works for you, than kudos, just not for me and definetly not for beginners.

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary. I put that in because some people feel the scout move / outflank give the walkers enough speed I feel differently.

You talk about rangers holding an objective from round 1 with a mech list I don't even think about objectives until round 4 maybe round 3 if I will need to get one on the other side of the board. Rangers give your opponent a static target to go after, you are then forced to either let them die or throw your generally outnumbered units at the enemy to try and halt the enemy advance. Static or not, your opponenet will not target them the entire game, if he does then that means less shots on your tanks, which means less dead tanks. Translating to his tanks taking more heat for more rounds. It is fine you dont think about holding objectives at turn 1, alot of people dont. When the enemy advances on your rangers you will have to divert fire, but when you play mech eldar you want to be the one controlling the game, and with the speed of wave serpeants....and their deadly cargo. Opponents will divert assistance to the destruction or repel of your wave serpeant cargo. If they dont then you will just stomp their objective and still remain at 1 objective.

I base alot of my mech playing around the speed of the list. This is why I am negative on rangers and warwalkers for mech. If it can not shift 12-24" in one round it either falls behind and dies or becomes an anchor that the rest of the list has to stay by negating my speed.

Mech is fluid, with the speed and reserve options if played well it can not be pinned down. Why make it more static by adding slow moving units or units that can not move and shoot?
Rep!

Great, excellent, amazing post. It covers all the bases, and gives people a good idea on how to run a Mech list. Originally I was going to disagree about the harliquins, but since you're running a Mech list, I couldnt agree more!

Heck! Even your statement about Storm Guardians was spot on with my view of them!

Also, I would add for people to not be afraid to use Wave Serpents as actual tanks. They do a pretty darned good job of it (best dedicated transport in the game. The thing can duel even the best tanks in the game and win!)
Other than Land raiders ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
A couple of quick point about a few things. DA's in a falcon may NOT claim objectives unless they disembark, only dedicated transports have the luxury of sitting on an objective with troops. Prove it.

Crack shot for fire pike'd fire dragon tank hunter exarchs: I don't know how much valkyrie IG you guys face off against but in my neck of the woods these players are creeping up everywhere. A huge part of their strategy relies on picking up a cover save and dropping troops off. Likewise with tau with their obscure everything rules, the crack shot makes the fire dragons a real threat to every tank, plus with the pike it turns the unit into a str 9 AP1 unit with an effective range of 24" or 18" + 12" if they are in a falcon/waveserpent. If you play the dragons at range you give up the melta dice (which is a shame) but you can cook valkyries and hammerheads at will, while still giving yourself the benefit of cover saves and taking theirs away. Think of the amount of area denial you provide yourself with an anti-tank unit that can nail something with str 9 AP 1 at 24" and never afford it a save. The entire game is based off cover saves not just IG Valks. Tau obscuring only works if farther than 12, in which case your squad cant shoot and its only your exarch with fire pike. But I believe your only referring to the exarch. The reason why i recommend against it, is because it gets costly when you start upgrading. Shaving points to fit the last bit of that last squad in is usually more beneficial than having alot of upgrades. FOr instance dropping or shaving a few points to fit another troop choice in when 2/3 the game are objective based. Its not a bad tactic or theory. It may be a little advanced for beginners though. I think it will be better for beginners to start off with mech eldar having more troops and tanks. But if you cant get it all in no matter what, these arnt bad ways to spend the remaining points.

Now before everyone says that dragons work best as a cheap unit and the goal of the wave serpent/falcon is to get em close cause we're mech and that's what we do, think about it this way, how often does your dragon strategy involve a suicide mission? And how many other units in your army would you ever send on a suicide mission? Why I do not use dragons.

Playing eldar, especially mech eldar, its pretty important that we not get stuck in a point swap mentality. Sure it's an easy comparison and a useful tool in figuring out what pulls its weight and what doesn't. But when people get ready to swap 96 points for more points on the other side just cause it costs em points we tend to ignore the fact that we play a strict role army, and its still 5th ed! Crap low point units win games! Every unit has a very specified function, and when we willingly give up arguably our most specialized unit on a suicide mission i feel like its akin to a carpenter saying, "Well, that screwdriver did something yesterday, but i'm gonna leave it at home today cause i still got my hammer and saw, and well both those hit harder."Agreed, i take units that can kill more than their points worth, there is no point for point mentality.

My two cents on the Banshee exarch. Personally i think mirrorswords ain't so hot. Cool model btw, but the aspect of the banshee isn't horde control its our hard counter to specialized high save units. It's not uncommon for some of these units to have higher toughness, such as with the mark of nurgle, biker units, 2+ tyrants and so on. As such, the mirrorswords don't enhance in this role as much as the executioner, extra dice don't mean much when you are throwing for 6's. I'd much rather have 3 shots for 4's than 5 shots for 6's. Not to mention it keeps the banshees fighting when something T7 or 8 comes along, otherwise they are fodder. Well since its foolish to take banshees without a doomseer and since you will be rolling 2-3 hand fulls of dice, youd be surprised how effective they are at horde control as well as shock troop slayers. If you are using your banshees to assault tyrants then you are mistaken. Use heavy weapons to bring them down. Bike units are usually small and banshee units are big. Chances are you will still roll enough power weapon wounds to destroy it.... Mark of nurgle can be tricky yes. I avoid them like the plagues they are and use blade storm or combined prism pie plates.

My thoughts on the DA exarch. I usually run a pair of DA squads in all of my lists and I'm a big fan of bladestorm peak-a-boo with the serpent. But lets not forget that bladestorm in fact costs you half a round of shooting in the long run. If you are getting back into a serpent and giving up a round of shooting that's fine and there's no penalty there. However, the DA's are a great unit for kiting CC units. With 18" range they can stay completely out of assault range barring fleet of foot, (and even then it'd be pretty lucky) and usually get two rounds of shooting 20 shots. So the exarch isn't as essential as it may seem. The reason i blade storm everytime they get out is because I use bladestorm to soften up the banshee assault target. I must ensure they kill them in the first round, so they can get back into their waveserpeant to advance on next enemy. DAs do the same. I work in pairs with them. This is how eldar is most effectivly played. Everything working together, concentrated pain. Always on a flank.

Wraithlords - If you are at all inclined to run hybrid lists, this should be where the hybrid goes, but kit em light, if he breaches the 160 mark you've done something wrong!

Warlock power: spiritseer. Unless you are playing a static list (which we're not cause we're mech eldar) this usually isn't that big of a boost, as both warlock and wraithlord will be moving toward the enemy, and if they are going different places the extra 6" isn't that much of a help.

Warwalkers: Not my favorite weapon. For around the same price you can get squad of spiders which have a lot more flexibility and mobility and the same number of str6 shots with better aim. If you put bigger weapons on em they become even more of a liability.

Prisms: Good stuff, but don't bank on em too much. Most armies will have a means of disabling them with glances turn after turn. Their main strength is their insane range, but this makes the prism have a tendency to stay pretty far out of support range, and subsequently easily lost. With a mech eldar list, its all about strength of one strike, prolonged conflicts tend to end poorly for us, a prism can definitely add to the power of the strike, but they only offer one shot out of 115 points and with cover readily available the utility of that shot diminishes quickly. I don't think that the prism really over shadows the other heavy support choices that much.
for 115 points the fire prism is a good buy. You have 3 devastating powerful tanks for 345 points. In a all mech lists, prisms do not soak up all the fire. People shoot at wave serpeants alot too. exspecially if there are troops in them.

Nice post.

Now some considerations.

Vectored engines: they are not worthless. They are too pricey for what they do but imagine the difference between getting you tbanshee transport imobilized or wrecked. In second case not only you lose the transport but you unit will auto disembark. pew pew bye bye banshees. But again are too priceySo what you are saying is...they are worthless ;)

Fire prism spirit stones. i also run naked prisms but when i know i`ll encounter close combat armies i sometimes take these as they make the difference between a dead and an alive prism.

As for the mech list ..evenin hybrid/nidzilla wraithlords are nice, they are not mech so their lists are not mech lists :D
Thanks to all who posted in here, it's been a big help to at least this new player. Don't have a lot to add as of now, still going through some casual games with some buddies while we get a better grasp on the rules/build up our armies and hit up the LGS. But I will say that I graduated from the DiW Fire Prism acadamy. Love em. Waiting for my third to come in the mail.
No problem. that is what its for.
 
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