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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey guys,
mEGLOMANIAC, and a few others are getting together a summary of the allies rules, and Gimmers has very kindly sent me some links to some excellent DH tactica.

I'm going to compile them all in this here thread, so feel free to PM me anything that you thinks needs including.

mEGLOMANIAC, if once your done with your allies FAQ< if you could PM it to me, I'd be thankfull. :)

I look forward to working with you guys. :)

~Yoss:)

EDIT:
Gimmers, and number6 sent me some excellent stuff about the Various LRC LR, AC, and other confused rules with SM. Needless to say, they'll be included, both sides of the gun as well. Or even all 3 sides. 0.o
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Allies

Here is the Allies FAQ, compiled by mEGLOMANIAC, and the Deamonhunters Forum. Many thanks to them.

HOW TO USE ALLIES (created 07/05/2006)

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Ok, this is for everyone who has questions on the use of allies - for any Imperial army. Daemonhunters, Witch Hunters, Space Marines, and Imperial Guard are all covered here. The first point is to determine which army is going to be the base army and which army will be the allied contingent, as the rules differ depending on which faction is in which position. The possible combinations are:

1) Imperial Guard with allied Daemonhunters AND/OR Witch Hunters

2) Space Marines with allied Daemonhunters AND/OR Witch Hunters

3) Daemonhunters with inducted Space Marines OR Imperial Guard, with allied Witch Hunters

4) Witch Hunters with inducted Space Marines OR Imperial Guard, with allied Daemonhunters


Note: In each section, the allied contingent will be colored blue while the base army will be colored red. This is so that we're perfectly clear what we're discussing. Each section, though, has differing allies & base armies, so just because an army is red in one section doesn't mean it won't be blue in another section. Just read the section relevant to your army and you shouldn't get confused!

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1) If you have a Imperial Guard army, you may include Daemonhunters AND/OR Witch Hunters as an allied contingent. Your base army, in this case IG, can use any units in it's codex as normal, including Doctrines. Once you've taken the mandatory 1 HQ and 2 Troops choices from your base IG army's codex, you may begin to add on allied units from the Daemonhunters, the Witch Hunters, or both.

You may take up to 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elite, 0-2 Troops, 0-1 Fast Attack, and 0 Heavy Support from each of these allied forces, but you may not have more units than the normal Force Organization Chart (FOC) allows. So while you are allowed an HQ choice from both allies, you cannot use them both - this is because a normal FOC has a max of two HQ choices, and one of them is already used by your base IG army's mandatory HQ choice. Therefore you can add in either a DH HQ or a WH HQ. This repeats for all of the FOC slots: While you may bring in up to 2 DH Troops and up to 2 WH Troops, you're still constrained by the total maximum of 6 Troops choices in a single FOC. If you have 3+ Troops choices from your base IG army, you cannot bring in the max number of allied contingent Troops without violating the FOC rules.

When using allied DH or WH, you may not also use the DH or WH rules for inducting IG or SM units. What this means is that your allied contingent may only include some combination of DH & WH units, and may never include further SM or IG. This prevents lists from ever using IG and SM together!

A point to be aware of is that all allied contingents follow their normal rules for what units may be taken. For example, to use an Assassin (Elite) you also need a DH or WH Inquisitor (Elite) or Inquisitor Lord (HQ). But since you're only allowed a single Elite slot from an allied contingent, you must use an Inquisitor Lord (HQ) to be able to take any Assassin types. Inquisitor Lords require a minimum of three henchmen and cost more than Inquisitors do, making the idea of taking an Assassin in your IG army an expensive proposition. Likewise, you may not combine Daemonhosts and Grey Knights in your allied contingent, as these units are expressly forbidden from ever working together.

Allied contingents and base armies do not share armouries. Your IG characters do not have access to DH or WH armouries, and likewise any DH/WH characters cannot buy items or weapons from the IG armoury.

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2) If you have a Space Marine army, you may include Daemonhunters AND/OR Witch Hunters as an allied contingent. Your base army, in this case SM, can use any units in it's codex as normal, including Traits. Once you've taken the mandatory 1 HQ and 2 Troops choices from your base SM army's codex, you may begin to add on allied units from the Daemonhunters, the Witch Hunters, or both.

You may take up to 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elite, 0-2 Troops, 0-1 Fast Attack, and 0 Heavy Support from each of these allied forces, but you may not have more units than the normal Force Organization Chart (FOC) allows. So while you are allowed an HQ choice from both allies, you cannot use them both - this is because a normal FOC has a max of two HQ choices, and one of them is already used by your base SM army's mandatory HQ choice. Therefore you can add in either a DH HQ or a WH HQ. This repeats for all of the FOC slots: While you may bring in up to 2 DH Troops and up to 2 WH Troops, you're still constrained by the total maximum of 6 Troops choices in a single FOC. If you have 3+ Troops choices from your base SM army, you cannot bring in the max number of allied contingent Troops without violating the FOC rules.

When using allied DH or WH, you may not also use the DH or WH rules for inducting IG or SM units. What this means is that your allied contingent may only include some combination of DH & WH units, and may never include further SM or IG. This prevents lists from ever using IG and SM together!

A point to be aware of is that all allied contingents follow their normal rules for what units may be taken. For example, to use an Assassin (Elite) you also need a DH or WH Inquisitor (Elite) or Inquisitor Lord (HQ). But since you're only allowed a single Elite slot from an allied contingent, you must use an Inquisitor Lord (HQ) to be able to take any Assassin types. Inquisitor Lords require a minimum of three henchmen and cost more than Inquisitors do, making the idea of taking an Assassin in your base SM army an expensive proposition. Likewise, you may not combine Daemonhosts and Grey Knights in your allied contingent, as these units are expressly forbidden from ever working together. The only exception to these rules are the combination of Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle, and Space Marines. Normally the two former unit types may never work with the latter. But when your base army is Space Marines, you may include GK, SoB, or both - the rules preventing GK & SM or SoB & SM only apply if the GK or SoB are in the base army, not allied in.

Allied contingents and base armies do not share armouries. Your SM characters do not have access to DH or WH armouries, and likewise any DH/WH characters cannot buy items or weapons from the SM armoury.

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3) If you have a Daemonhunters army, you may include inducted Imperial Guard OR Space Marines, and you may include allied Witch Hunters. Your base army, in this case DH, can use any units in it's codex as normal. Once you've taken the mandatory 1 HQ and 2 Troops choices from your base DH army's codex, you may begin to add on units from other codices:

Inducted IG or SM: You can add on limited units from one or the other of these, but never both. The exact units allowed are listed in the DH codex (pages 30-31). These units occupy a Force Organization Chart (FOC) slot like any other unit does. Certain units have restrictions on when they may be used: An inducted IG Leman Russ, for example, requires that you have already fielded two or more inducted IG Troops choices first. They also have limits on how many may be used: that inducted IG Leman Russ is a 0-1 choice.

Allied Witch Hunters: You may take up to 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elite, 0-2 Troops, 0-1 Fast Attack, and 0 Heavy Support from the Witch Hunters, but you may not have more units than the normal Force Organization Chart (FOC) allows. So while you are allowed an HQ choice from WH, you cannot use it if you already have two DH HQ choices - this is because a normal FOC has a max of two HQ choices. This applies for all of the FOC slots: while you may bring in up to 2 WH Troops, you're still constrained by the total maximum of 6 Troops choices in a single FOC. If you have 5-6 Troops choices from your base DH army, you cannot also bring in the max number of WH Troops without violating the FOC rules.

You may not include inducted IG or SM in the allied WH contingent. This means that the only inducted units allowed are those belonging to the base DH army. You may never have IG and SM in the same FOC, basically, nor may you get around 0-1 limitations by taking inducted IG or SM twice.

When using inducted Space Marines AND allied Witch Hunters, you may include Sisters of Battle in the allied contingent - the rule preventing SM and SoB from serving together only applies if the Sisters of Battle are in the base army, not allied in.

Allied contingents and base armies do not share armouries. Your DH characters do not have access to WH armouries, and likewise any WH characters cannot buy items or weapons from the DH armoury.

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4) If you have a Witch Hunters army, you may include inducted Imperial Guard OR Space Marines, and you may include allied Daemonhunters. Your base army, in this case WH, can use any units in it's codex as normal. Once you've taken the mandatory 1 HQ and 2 Troops choices from your base WH army's codex, you may begin to add on units from other codices:

Inducted IG or SM: You can add on limited units from one or the other of these, but never both. The exact units allowed are listed in the WH codex (page 26). These units occupy a Force Organization Chart (FOC) slot like any other unit does. Certain units have restrictions on when they may be used: An inducted IG Leman Russ, for example, requires that you have already fielded two or more inducted IG Troops choices first. They also have limits on how many may be used: that inducted IG Leman Russ is a 0-1 choice.

Allied Daemonhunters: You may take up to 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elite, 0-2 Troops, 0-1 Fast Attack, and 0 Heavy Support from the Daemonhunters, but you may not have more units than the normal Force Organization Chart (FOC) allows. So while you are allowed an HQ choice from DH, you cannot use it if you already have two WH HQ choices - this is because a normal FOC has a max of two HQ choices. This applies for all of the FOC slots: while you may bring in up to 2 DH Troops, you're still constrained by the total maximum of 6 Troops choices in a single FOC. If you have 5-6 Troops choices from your base WH army, you cannot also bring in the max number of DH Troops without violating the FOC rules.

You may not include inducted IG or SM in the allied DH contingent. This means that the only inducted units allowed are those belonging to the base WH army. You may never have IG and SM in the same FOC, basically.

When using inducted Space Marines AND allied Daemonhunters, you may include Grey Knights in the allied contingent - the rule preventing SM and GK from serving together only applies if the Grey Knights are in the base army, not allied in.

Allied contingents and base armies do not share armouries. Your WH characters do not have access to DH armouries, and likewise any DH characters cannot buy items or weapons from the WH armoury.

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Other Questions/Important Points:

Q: How can I use an Assassin in my Imperial Guard or Space Marine army?
A: You must first buy an Inquisitor Lord from either the Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters armies. Inquisitor Lords are HQ choices, and require a small unit of henchmen to be a legal choice - making them fairly expensive, as well as occupying a valuable HQ slot.

Q: Can I ever have SM and IG in the same army through allies?
A: Nope! While DH and WH may always be present in the same force, IG and SM may not be together. The only way to field both Space Marines and Imperial Guard is to use multiple Force Organization Charts (FOCs) - one for Guard, one for Marines. Each chart would require the mandatory 1 HQ & 2 Troops choices for whichever army occupies it, making the use of multiple FOCs not an option in smaller games. Using multiple FOCs also requires your opponent's permission.

Q: But I thought that Grey Knights/Sisters of Battle couldn't be in the same army as Space Marines?
A: The rules for this exclusion only apply when Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters forces are the base armies and you're attempting to use inducted Space Marines. When SM are the base army with allied DH/WH, there is nothing preventing you from using Grey Knights or Sisters of Battle units.

Q: With a base DH or WH army and inducted SM or IG, may I use Doctrines/Traits?
A: Nope! SM or IG choices used in this situation must come from the very limited lists in the back of the DH and WH codices, with no modifications beyond the normal armoury access/squad weapon upgrades allowed. If you want Doctrines or Traits, you must use your IG or SM force as the base army with allied DH/WH - see parts #1 & #2 for rules on how that works.

Q: Can my DH or SM Teleport Homer be used with friendly WH or IG units? Improved Comms? Holy Relic?
A: Yes. A Teleport Homer (or any similar type of wargear) can be utilized by any friendly model in your army. If you have a Space Marine army with Teleport Homers in it, and you have allied Grey Knights, for example, the GK may utilize the Teleport Homer's effects. This is the same with any item that effects all friendly models: Holy Relic (DH), Improved Comms (IG), etc.

Q: Can I have a base Daemonhunter or Witch Hunter army with allied Space Marines or Imperial Guard?
A: Nope. Only the two Inquisition armies have legal rules for being used as allies. Technically, inducted IG or SM do not count as allies, but count instead as part of the base DH or WH army itself, so the only Imperial armies that can ally themselves to another are DH and WH (and the Xenos Hunters, if GW ever publishes their codex).

Q: Are allies tournament legal?
A: This is a bit less clear than the other issues above. Technically the use of allies, as long as their in legal combinations (ie, the four combinations detailed in this guide), are tournament legal. I myself have encountered GW-sanctioned tournaments that refuse to allow them though. The best route to go is to check with tournament organizers beforehand. On a related note, inducted IG or SM units in your base DH or WH army should also be 100% tournament legal, but the same situation applies: some tournament organizers have differing ideas. Either way, check before the day of the event to be on the safe side!

Q: Can I use specific Marine Chapters (Space Wolves, Black Templar, etc) or Guard Units (Catachans, Steel Legion, etc) with DH/WH?
A: It depends on who is the base army.
* If your base army is going to be the Marine or Guard force, then yes, you may use a specific Chapter or Unit of that army, as normal. Having allied DH or WH units does not effect that.
* If your base force is going to be Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters, with inducted IG or SM, then no, you may not use a specific IG or SM army's rules. Both the DH and WH codices specifically forbid Traits and Doctrines from being used, including the previous edition's incarnations of this (as of right now, the old Marine chapters do not use Traits, but they still count as Traited marines for this purpose. Same with old Guard units). You *may* use the models of these different armies to *represent* your inducted vanilla Marines or vanilla Guard, but none of the special rules, units, wargear, etc that go with them. So you may use Spacewolf models to represent a squad of inducted Marines in your base DH or WH army, but those Spacewolf models must act in all ways like stock-standard Space Marines from the current SM codex.
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From Diggums Hammer, advice on how to induct IG:

I thought I would add some help on how to set up your Inducted IG troops. For those who don't know I have played IG for years before playing Deamonhunters, so hopefully I can add some experience.

Why add IG to my Grey Knights you ask? Little cheap dudes with heavy weapons.:tongue: One thing that Deamonhunters lack is good long range firepower other than Dreadnoughts. Grey Knights are awesome against other troops, but if we come across a tank heavy army, or an army of Monstrous Creatures (like many new 'Nid armies), we lack tools to do the job.

IG Platoon Equipment: Give every squad, including the Command squad a heavy weapon, and one special weapon. Lasguns suck:(( , the only reason the troops are there is to act as "meat" so you can keep shooting your HW. Because Grey Knights are so good at killing enemy troops, I like to put Lascannons and Missle Launchers as the HW of choice with my IG squads, especially Lascannons. The high strength and low AP of Lascannons is very good against tanks, enemy Termintaors and Monstrous Creatures. Plasma Guns are a perfect add on to these squads, as you get 24" range, and another high strength low AP shot. Many time the Lascannon misses, and the Plasma Gun kills the intended target. You can also give consideration to Autocannons and Grenade Launchers to your squads. I don't like Meltas or Flamers because they are short ranged, and are generally a waste in line squads as you almost never shoot them.

IG Platoon Leadership: Guard are certainly not fearless:( , so you want to give your squads the best leadership available, which generally is 8. The Junior officer in the Command squad has a 12" radius of Leadership. If you pack your squads together, you can use this without adding Veteran Sergeants to your troop squads. I, however, prefer to give each troop squad a Vet Sgt. so that I can place the unit far apart if I like. Spread out squads are great way of splitting enemy forces, triangulating your fire, and not letting them kill all your firepower at once. You do NOT want to let these squads use their base leadership, you are asking for them to run away!

Armoured Fist Squads: Equip the squads the same as you would a Platoon squad and start the unit out of the Chimera in cover. I like the Lascannon, Plasma Gun and Vet Sgt combo; 101 pts. I just use the Chimeras for there own mobile shooting ability, and Improved Comms. Chimeras are a good light tank on there own, and all I usually add for an upgrade is Smoke Launchers. Remember to keep these puppies cheap. I don't bother with any other upgrade other than Improved Comms (for certain applications). This upgrade lets you re-roll one of your reserve rolls per turn. Sad the Callidus didn't come in?:cry: Re-roll it with ICs. If you have a lot of DSing units, or play a lot of Escallation, this is one vehicle upgrade that is worth it.

If you are going to keep the squad in the Chimera, then I would just take one HW, and no special weapon. You can pop the hatch and shoot a HW if you didn't move. The Chimera then counts as open topped however. Chimeras are not good transports to send out tank hunting with a single BS3 Melta-Gun. Use ISTs in a Rhino for that.

Leman Russ Battle Tank: The Leman Russ battle tank is one of the best tanks in 40k. It's S8 AP3, 72" range Ordnance Blast is awesome at killing anything save Terminators. To get one in your Deamonhunter list, you will need two IG Troop Choices, and you can take two Armoured Fist squads, unlike in the IG codex. You can have one of these in your Deamonhunter army, and it takes up a Heavy Support choice.

Again, keeping these cheap is the way to go. I take no upgrades other than smoke, unless I want Improved Comms. I give it a Hull Heavy Bolter and Sponson Heavy Bolters, keeping my tank at 158pts. It is sometimes preferable to shoot the three HBs rather than the Battle Cannon, eg: A marine or two in cover. You have a better chance of killing the two marines with 9 HB shots, rather than shooting the battle cannon.

Sentinals: These mobile HWs are one way to add some long range Fire-Support to your Deamonhunter Army. Again you must have two IG troop choices to take these. You can have a Squad of 1-3 Sentinals per squad, and they take up a Fast Attack choice.

The only way I would equip these is with a Lascannon, and a squad of two or three. Don't add any upgrades period. I also would only add them if I had a lot of other armour around, like a Leman Russ. These are AV10 open-topped vehicles, and can die to bolter fire. If you use them, keep them close to another heavy AV vehicle to draw enemy AT fire.

Rough Riders: To me this is the least attractive IG unit to add to a Deamonhunter army. It is essentially an IG counter-assault squad. They are on horses for crying out loud!!!:wacko: They do a pretty good job at though, and are not expensive. I just don't think Grey Knights need any more CC options, and an Eversor is just about as good as a Unit of Rough-Riders, and more versatile.

If you take these, I would give all of them, except the Vet Sgt, Hunting Lances. These are a one time, one hit wonder, but are fabulous at killing just about anything with I5 or worse. They are great for deep striking Termies. No armour saves allowed, S5, I5 hits. I would give the Veteran Sgt a Power weapon (Cheap for IG) and an upgrade called Honorfica Imperialis. It gives the wearer the statline of an IG Heroic Senior Officer.

Hope this helps anyone wanting to use IG in your Deamonhunter army. ;)
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Inqusitor Solexus has this too add:
I guess it might be important to note that with Allies, you don't need to take the 1 HQ and 2 Troops choices before taking Fast Attack or Elites choices, except in the case of Daemonhosts/Assassins. I don't think anyone's asked me this yet, but it could happen.
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Tactics Articles from Colonel Ellis
There seems to be a lot of criticism regarding the use of Land Raiders in a Demonhunters force. I for one believe that the Land Radier is a viable option, and even more useful in a Demonhunters army than any other. It is for this reason that I've decided to write a short tactica regarding the use of Land Raiders in a D-H force.

Radical:
The LR is less useful in the Radical army than the Puritan. This is because Radical D-H usually include ordnance tanks, inducted units, and inquisitorial stormtroopers, all of which are very capable of dealing with enemy armor if outfitted properly, so the firepower that a normal landraider (twin-lascannons) offers is less of an advantage in this configuration.

Unfortunately Radicals do not have access to LRC, and so the use of a LR is even more marginalized. Primarily it is useful for delivering an Inquisitor and friends directly into assault. This is the only effective way to field an assault inquisitor, because you cannot move and assault out of any other transport. Because the close-combat retinue tends to die off so quickly, the LR is almost essential for delivering the squad intact to do full damage before being crushed in a counter-charge.

The high incidence of transports in a Radical force benefits the use of a LR, because the LR will either absorb firepower that would otherwise be directed at the lesser-armored transports, or the transports will absorb firepower that could be directed at the LR. Regardless of which target your enemy chooses, you can make him pay by delivering a painful assault with the Land Raider or shooting him to bits with your unharmed transport squads. Furthermore, the Land Raider is useful for blocking line of sight, allowing you to move a demonhost or several assasins toward the enemy in perfect safety behind this monster of a tank. Using 3 or 6 death cult assassins in conjuction with an inquisitor combat retinue in a LR can open a large hole in your opponent's lines.

Puritan:

This is where the LR truly shines. Going puritan gives you access to both normal LR and LRC, giving you the capability of delivering up to 8 terminator-armored GK at full strength directly into your opponent's gunline. This alone defines the primary role of the Land Raider in a Puritan army: as a transport. Since GK don't have access to APCs like normal marines, they must either walk or hitch a ride in a LR, adding to the tank's usefulness in a DH army.

Aside from the obvious use as a transport for the best assault troops in the 40000 universe, the Land Raider also brings several other advantages to the Puritan commander. Everyone knows that DH lack long-range tankhunting ability. The GK Land Raider makes up for this nicely with its Godhammer-pattern lascannons (what a beautiful name!). This tank can move up to 6" and still fire both of its lascannon! This allows you to deal with many problem-units, such as Obliterators, Ordnance-toting vehicles, and monstrous creatures, all in a package that is far more reliable in general than an AV12 dreadnaught. Something is to be said for the LRC as well, with its twin-linked assault cannon and multi-melta it is a strong threat to tanks and infantry alike.

Apart from adding much-needed firepower to your DH force, the Land Raider has other uses that a commander must exploit to acheive victory. The Land Radier has the largest footprint of any other tank in the game, and when it pops smoke it is the most durable tank in the game. This allows you to block line of sight to your most valuable or vulnerable units such as Grey Knights on foot, inquisitors with retinues, other transports, and close-combat dreadnaughts. When using your landraider as "mobile terrain" as this tactic is often labelled, make sure that it is the closest target to the enemy, forcing him to take target priority tests whenever he wants to shoot past it. I have been saved from intense firestorms because my enemy was forced to shoot at my land raider instead of my precious GKs, often not causing so much as a scratch to the tank. Remember that when used this way, the LR is also very vulnerable despite its AV14, especially once you get within melta-gun range. Regardless, even if the land raider is destroyed, if you positioned it to your maximum benefit every turn, it should be able to contribute to the cause of victory even in death--a dead land raider still blocks LOS as if it was alive, and also provides nearly a square foot of 4+ cover saves for your advancing infantry, right on the enemy's doorstep. This is perhaps the most important thing to remember when using land raiders--be sure to have them contribute to the battle even in death. A Land Radier left at the back of your line is a wasted investment.

If you use the "mobile terrain" strategy in conjunction with the "taxi" strategy, you can accomplish some amazing results with a little luck. Not only will your assault unit hit the enemy full-strength, but you'll be providing protection from return fire to large sections of your advancing army at the same time! Once the Land Raider drops off its troops, feel free to tank-shock multiple squads, taking advantage of the Land Raider's large size, and also to start pouring firepower into the enemy at close range with your godhammer lascannons and heavy bolter, or hurricane bolters, assault cannon, and multi-melta, depending on which tank you choose. The combination of a powerful assault with supporting fire often destroys your opponent's firing line, opening up a gap which the rest of your forces can exploit.

As a general guideline, don't use more than one land raider until the 2000 point level of battles. In lesser-point games, more than one land raider detracts from your body count too much to be worth it. If you DO want to use more than one land raider, then use as many as you can (2 or 3) and all-out rush the enemy position. This is also a viable and often successful strategy given a bit of luck. Don't knock it until you have tried it. Multiple land raiders delivering multiple squads of GK and GKT can crush an opposing army very quickly. If you are using the recommended single land raider, try and take advantage of Obscurement whenever possible, and don't be reckless. Try and eliminate enemy threats to the land raider first, since it is such a large investment. Direct your supporting units at Devestator squads, melta gun-toting squads, and anything with rending. If you eliminate the threats to your land raider before they can destroy it, then the Land Raider has a habit of rampaging around for the rest of the battle unmolested. Additionally, when using only one land raider, include other vehicle units (IG Leman Russ, chimeras, rhinos, and dreadnaughts) to try and distract firepower away from your expensive land raider. Whether your enemy focuses on the LR or your other vehicles, whatever element of your vehicle force is left will be free to make the enemy pay. The idea is to flood your opponent with targets that are not easy to hurt--does he shoot your land raider full of terminators, or the rhino with ISTs that will fry his commander/predator/terminators, or the dreadnaught that is about to charge his lines? By providing more targets than your opponent can deal with in one turn, a large portion of your army will still be effective even if a small part was destroyed by enemy firepower. If your GKT get pinned in the wrekage of your land raider, your dreadnaughts and trasnports should be right there to protect them and harass the enemy until the GKT are free to move and contribute to the battle again!

Well, that was a long post but I hope I proved my point. Land Raiders are not cheap, but neither are they a waste of points if used correctly.

EDIT: I forgot to add that Incinerators are *highly* effective mounted in Land Raiders. This makes purgation squads very viable because you can put a full squad of 10 in a land raider, and on turn two disembark, fire *4* heavy flamer templates into the enemy formation, plus 12 storm bolter shots, and then charge to still get 10 Str 6 attacks, 3 Str 6 power weapon attacks, and 8 str 4 attacks, all at WS5. This is so effective, that you must be careful not to kill everything in assault range with your firepower, so that you can still assault and not get left hanging in the breeze begging to be shot to death. Remember that if you use this combination, that you can choose NOT to fire all of the incinerators/storm bolters, and since the flame templates are resolved in succession you can easily decide when to not use all four incinerators. Even against Meqs four heavy-flamer templates will cause a LOT of casualties!
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For those wondering about wether you use the SM rules or the DH for things such as the assault cannon, please make sure to read the following links to get a picture of your options, courtesy of number6: (and please read all the threads posted if you want a full picture)

I think an issue that needs to be in the DH FAQ is a question that pops up All The Time: Do we DH get to use the new assault cannon stats as presented in Codex: Space Marines? This leads to several other interesting conundrums. Among them:

* Do DH use the SM rules for Land Raiders and Land Raider Crusaders also?
* Do DH players pay the DH cost for the LRC or the SM cost for the LRC?
* Do DH use the SM rules for bionics, storm shields, teleport homers, etc. also?

This is a hotly contested point, and has been for some time. In chronological order, here are the four most recent threads devoted to the subject.

Rules Smackdown -- C: DH vs C: SM: http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48298&highlight=rules+smackdown

Trouble with the codex: http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51567&highlight=trouble+with+codex

Machine spirit: http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56592&highlight=Machine+Spirit

LRC cost? http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68727&highlight=LRC+Cost

And for a seemingly final soloution (from, of course, the French): http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79376

In my opinion, I think the key things to note in the FAQ on this issue are:

* Pete Haines -- GW game developer and Rulez Boy -- has posted a response saying that DH players should use the new SM rules. (This post is referenced in the "Rules Smackdown" thread.) Importantly, though, he has NOT addressed the issue of points costs.

* Despite Pete Haines's sticky'd list post at the GW web site, there are no GW rules updates, FAQ updates, or anything like that to lend "official" weight to Haines's brief statement.

* The issue is, therefore, unresolved, and is likely to remain that way for the forseeable future. DH players should consult with opponents and/or tournament organizers, especially in regards to Land Raiders, Land Raider Crusaders, and assault cannons, and the points costs we pay for them, before playing games.

Personally, I think Pete Haines's stance, considering who he is, however "unofficial" the manner in which he presented it, gives tacit GW approval to replace outdated DH rules with updated SM rules for all items bearing the same name. This should definitely include the Land Raider tanks. I also think that, since points costs were not addressed by Haines, we should continue to pay DH costs for items, even though they use the new rules. Note that the DH do pay more for most items that are cheaper for the SM. The only exception is the 10 pt difference for the LRC.

Whew! Lengthy to even EXPLAIN. Sorry about that. I hope this helps, somehow.

--number6
number6 also found the old DH FAQ (with some cool questions answered), the thread was altered to me by Sentrykiller.
 

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Insert Witty Comment Here
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If I could give you neg rep I would. Thread necromancy isn't cool. And some of the rules here still apply. Infact most of them should, but I am too tired to reread that over, it's been THAT long...

You have 171 posts, you should know not to thread necromance by now...

-Goblin
 

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LO Ninja
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Zombie thread!

By the looks of things, yes most still applys but with things like do we use SM stuff then no we dont. As an asid though, i never got what was so confusing about the allyed system. It seems easy to understand to me *shrugs*

PL
 

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I have a pretty good idea on how the ally system works, but wanted to run a scenario past you guys to see how it looks (the idea is to either get an eversor + DCA's into a guard list, or run one assasin and an inquisitor as an elite, leaving an opening for a DH or WH HQ:

example 1
IG compulsory hq and 2 troops
inquisitor lord + retinue (hq2)
elite1: eversor (DH ally allotment)
elite2: 3 DCA's (WH ally allotment)

-or-

example 2
IG compulsory hq and 2 troops
canoness (hq2)
elite1: inquisitor (WH ally allotment)
elite2: eversor (DH ally allotment)

it seems 'legal' to me, but wanted to see how it feels in the community. Again this isn't an 'actual' list, just an example
 

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LO Ninja
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Stop posting in a 4 year old thread!

Make your own post in future please. I can see you are a new member so a little heads up is not to nerco post (revive an old post).

To answer your question anyway, no you may not have 2 types of assassins as allys as they are from seperat codexs and the rule does not interchange.

PL
 

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Stop posting in a 4 year old thread!

Make your own post in future please. I can see you are a new member so a little heads up is not to nerco post (revive an old post).

To answer your question anyway, no you may not have 2 types of assassins as allys as they are from seperat codexs and the rule does not interchange.

PL

well first off it's not quite 3 years old (it's birthday is next month)

secondly, I didn't necro... this thread was already breathing well on it's own for several posts before I responded. Seeing as this thread was already active, posting ANOTHER thread here right under it would probably have generated a similar reply from yourself or another member eager to point out typical forum manners... IE "why are you starting a new thread on this when there's already 3 active?" Or the ever popular "Please use the search feature before posting." (that usually covers everything). btw, posting in 'dead thread' to say 'don't post in a dead thread' is kindof self defeating. If it's dead, don't reply. Better yet, ask a mod to lock it...

Honestly this thread is a FAQ regarding ally's, and from what I can see all of the information in the original post is still very valid, and possibly a more popular article recently as the new IG codex could be spurring some interest in allying... Maybe this should be stickied instead of locked eh?


Ok, now your answer so far isn't really answering my question. I may not have been very clear in what I was looking for so I will try to be a bit more specific:

Seeing as (according to this faq), in an IG parent army you can have both DH and WH allies, is it feasible to use one elite slot from daemonhunter, and one from witchhunter?

This seems to answer itself as yes... the quirky part is this:

can I use a daemonhunter inquisitor (non-lord) as one elite choice, and then use the witchhunter allotted elite slot to field any of the assassins? to me this would be a yes, but it's kind of a grey area since the assassins are in BOTH codexes, and neither states specifically "must have a DH inquisitor to use" "or must have a WH inquisitor to use," just 'inquisitor or inquisitor lord'. I'm not trying to get more elite slots out of the FOC, just trying to find a way to make the FOC slots more flexible using the rules laid out in the codexes, explained in this FAQ.

just trying to get some perspectives on this...
 

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Hive Fleet Pandora
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Ok, now your answer so far isn't really answering my question. I may not have been very clear in what I was looking for so I will try to be a bit more specific:

Seeing as (according to this faq), in an IG parent army you can have both DH and WH allies, is it feasible to use one elite slot from daemonhunter, and one from witchhunter?

This seems to answer itself as yes... the quirky part is this:

can I use a daemonhunter inquisitor (non-lord) as one elite choice, and then use the witchhunter allotted elite slot to field any of the assassins? to me this would be a yes, but it's kind of a grey area since the assassins are in BOTH codexes, and neither states specifically "must have a DH inquisitor to use" "or must have a WH inquisitor to use," just 'inquisitor or inquisitor lord'. I'm not trying to get more elite slots out of the FOC, just trying to find a way to make the FOC slots more flexible using the rules laid out in the codexes, explained in this FAQ.

just trying to get some perspectives on this...
In the most recent 40K FAQ (March 2009), it basically says (and I don't want to quote verbatim) as a general principle, you cannot gain the benefits of any special rules or wargear from your opponents army unless it explicitly says so (i.e. 'friend or foe'). Now, granted, allied DH and WH are not your 'opponents'. However, they are different armies with respect to each other, so I would have to say no. Otherwise, if DH Inquisitors can get WH assassins and vice versa, then who's to say my Daemonhunters cannot get Exorcists, or that my Witchhunters cannot get Grey Knight Landraiders and Dreadnoughts?
 

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3 Getrudes
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Otherwise, if DH Inquisitors can get WH assassins and vice versa, then who's to say my Daemonhunters cannot get Exorcists, or that my Witchhunters cannot get Grey Knight Landraiders and Dreadnoughts?
The Ally rules; "Note that Heavy Support may not be chosen" :(

That said, your point is still valid; Daemonhunters' FAQ, page 3, first question. "The Death Cult Assassin may only be taken in an army that includes an Inquisitor from the same Codex". So, no DCA for you, Mr Guardsman!
 

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Thank you for the replies Jy2 and Frank! This was more along the lines of what I was looking for. It sounded 'legal' from the faq here on the forums and in my codexes, but just felt a little 'too good to be true'

does anyone have a good link to the most current official faq? the link in here is dead =/
 
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