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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I'm playing Planetary Empires, and up to this point in the campaign I've been blitzing everything in my path with my traitor guard. But one of the opponents has switched over to his IG, and now I've effectively hit a brick wall. At best against him, I can only force him to take a moral victory, and with him getting more points since I control more turf, this looks like a worsening trend.

The force I'm fighting against is 1850 points, with upwards of two units getting a universal special rule. He usually fields two LR eradicators and a Vanquisher with Knight Commander; the rest is filled in with platoons. I'm playing 1500, no specials added.

I've been trying partly mechanized lists with 3 LR's, usually mixing demolishers and nova cannons, and adding to the firepower with vets only taking lascannons. This list has worked against everything but this one opponent, and even with tweaking I'm still getting thrashed. It might be coming down to the dice since our lists are rather similar, in which case he wins hands down because I roll abnormally low.

So maybe I'm desperate enough to try something so bizarre against him that he won't have an effective counter-strategy, breaking my losing streak against him...

THE LIST

HQ
Lord Commissar w/ Powerfist - 85
Lord Commissar w/ Powerfist - 85

Elites
9 Ogryn - 370 (joined by Commissar)
9 Ogryn - 370 (joined by Commissar)
10 Ogryn - 410

Troops
Vets w/ Lascannon - 90
Vets w/ Lascannon - 90

TOTAL: 1500 points on the spot

As you can plainly see, it's an extremely lopsided list that might ressemble something a n00b with a fetish for ogryn might come up with. The idea I had in mind with making this list was having enough wounds to make it across the field and break his gunline, since my shooting rolls have been doing so poorly (I should NOT have to shoot at a LR with all my lascannons for four turns to so much as glance). It's made me realize why GW made Ogryn so expensive: that's close to 90 T5 wounds marching across the field there, and so help me if that doesn't make it into cc, I'll eat all my models and quit. Of course, this list is not an all-takers, and is designed specifically with this particular IG opponent in mind.

So what do you think? Viable strategy against a well-rounded guard army?
 

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I've seen a list like this used for fun and to be honest to you. It was completely annihilated but it looked very cool while it was going down (seeing the new wolves getting it in combat was a heartwarming sight)


HQ:
Very expensive and i wouldn't take them. I'd ditch them and grab a CCS with Melta guns in a Chimera. If he's taking armour then they will be no end of help to you.

ELITES:
They fun but not them bet use of points. If you want to go with them then go for it but i'd consider dropping a model so you can get the points for a Chimera. It will save them against Demolisher shells and other such str10 pain.

TROOPS:
In 1500pts you really need 3 Troops choices, purely for scoring units. I'd also consider taking some camo cloaks as well to keep the boys alive.
 

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Best advice but boring:
Spam Demolishers and Vendettas or Chimeltas.
Unless his platoons are all Lascannon/2 Meltas once that Vanquishers dead you are should win.

What specials and heavies is he using in his platoons?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
He takes a mix in his squads. I don't think he takes a lot of lascannons (mostly grenade and missle launchers), but I should expect at least one heavy weapons team with lascannons and tankhunters every game. Between that and the vanquisher, I can expect to lose at least one tank a turn if I take them. He doesn't seem to favor demolishers much, which is why I thought I'd be able to get away with a bunch of ogryn.

Oh, I also forgot to mention he takes lascannons on all his tanks. That's why I never considered the chimelta. Between his tanks and missle launchers, it would be impossible to slip one past him.

Edit: I also have no vendettas. They don't quite fit the fluff of my army.
 

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Sorry, but that Ogryn list is garbage.

Let's back up and try and fix what you have. Can you post the list he's thrashing? That will let us know if you have any major list problems. Beyond that, you may just need to learn some tactics. Again, seeing your list will help us advise you on this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Alrighty, here's the last list I fielded against him to the best of my recollection. This was in a 1000 point game.

HQ
Company Command Squad with lascannon, mounted in chimera - 125 points

Troops
Veteran Squad with Lascannon - 90 points
Veteran Squad on with melta gun and grenade launcher on chimera - 140
Veteran Squad on with melta gun and grenade launcher on chimera - 140

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Eradicator - 160
Leman Russ Eradicator - 160
Leman Russ Demolisher - 165

If my math was right, that ought to come to 1000 even. I would have given the chimera vets more melta guns, but I just didn't have the points. One thing I want to do in future lists in invest in dozer blades for all my russes. Sure, they're hideously overpriced for what they do, but with my rolls I need them. In the game I used this list one eradicator got immobilised before it got anywhere. Right after that, while splitting a list with a marine player, two demolishers got immobilized right off the bat outside of firing range, de-fanging my army before I could fire a single shot.

The only major change I've got coming to mind right now is playing 1500 point games against this guy so his bonus points count for a smaller margin of difference.

Edit: Apparently I fail math. That comes out to 980, which means I had more than enough points for more meltas. Either I flubbed the addition while adding it up then and there, or I must've taken some extra piece of miscellaneous equipment.
 

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HQ
Company Command Squad with lascannon, mounted in chimera - 125 points

Why?

Troops
Veteran Squad with Lascannon - 90 points
drop this squad.

Veteran Squad on with melta gun and grenade launcher on chimera - 140
no mixing special weapons... 3x melta is better.

Veteran Squad on with melta gun and grenade launcher on chimera - 140
Same

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Eradicator - 160
Leman Russ Eradicator - 160
Leman Russ Demolisher - 165

Um... this is where all your points are being lost... you have 3 kitted out tanks when your minimum troops choice(plus one useless squad) are suffering with no left over points.
drop at least 1 if not 2 of these tanks for the points, or just strip them down to LRBTs.



More troops!!!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Switching over to basic battle tanks has crossed my mind. They might even be a good alternative to the eradicator, since I don't have to buy dozer blades so they can move within range. My only issue is figuring out what to do about the armor my opponent fields, then. He can pop chimeltas easily enough with his list, and I just don't roll good enough to rely on any number of lascannon shots.

And I'm not getting thrashed because I'm not holding objectives. I'm getting thrashed as in actually getting a lot of my stuff destroyed before it can do anything useful, which accounts for a lot of moral victories, since we both just squat our objectives.
 

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im sure he can destroy 2 chimeltas, you need to give him more targets so he can't deal with them all, maybe a infantry platoon with a big merged squad with autocannons? maybe more chimeltas? maybe a few armoured sentinels to tie his units up?

Also if your finding it hard to get your melta boys to the enemy you could try deep striking storm troopers with 2 meltas, or even use some vendettas to give you some twin linked las cannons to play with.

Alot of different options, it just depends what it is that you are looking for in your army list.


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It keeps deleting all my posts, I have no idea why...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I guess it would help to divulge what models I have at my disposal in determining the list. I have "enough" infantry to use for most cases, 3 demolishers/punishers/eradicators/executioners with 2 more yet to be assembled/painted, 1 demolisher that is always a demolisher, 2-3 plain old leman russes, 1 basalisk, 4 chimeras, and a small dark eldar army (which, incidentally, is written into my army's fluff, but hasn't been used because of its lack of competitiveness). I don't have any fliers, and if I wanted to I can use a chimera as a medusa siege cannon (it's a mod in progress).

With the models I have availible, it seems like a better idea to actually field more tanks. Even in a worst case scenario, his list will only let him take out two every turn, while the other three or four can still fire, something they weren't able to do in previous games.
 

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Maybe with the models you have... but maybe you have too many tank models. You need to have a balance between tank and troops/mech troops.
The main problem is that your troops can't do there job because they don't have all the equipment they need to, this is because there are too many tanks.

I would have 1 or 2 leman russes at the point level, a LRBT with only a hull heavy flamer or a Demolisher with only a hull heavy flamer, or both if you want.

Troops are important.
 

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(Not sure what happened to my reply from last night...)

Looking at your list, it's obvious to me that you don't have enough long-range anti-tank weapons. Between the lascannons and the demolisher you *might* kill one transport per turn.

Your list should look similar to this:

HQ
70 Primaris Psyker

Troops
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera (Hull Heavy Flamer)
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera (Hull Heavy Flamer)
170 Veteran Squad w/3 x Plasma, Chimera (Hull Heavy Flamer)

Fast Attack
123 3 Scout Sentinels w/Autocannons, Searchlights

Heavy Support
165 Leman Russ Battle Tank w/Hull Lascannon
160 Leman Russ Eradicator w/Hull Heavy Flamer

Total: 998 pts.

-------------------- Or This: --------------------

HQ
135 Company Command Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera (Hull Heavy Flamer)

Troops
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera (Hull Heavy Flamer)
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera (Hull Heavy Flamer)
115 Veteran Squad w/3 x Flamer, Demolitions

Fast Attack
130 Vendetta (Demo/Flamer Vet Ride)
145 Hellhound w/Hull Multi-Melta

Heavy Support
165 Leman Russ Battle Tank w/Hull Lascannon

Total: 1000 pts.

-------------------- Or This: --------------------

HQ
70 Primaris Psyker

Troops
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera
170 Veteran Squad w/3 x Plasma, Chimera

Fast Attack
145 Hellhound w/Hull Multi-Melta

Heavy Support

150 Leman Russ Battle Tank w/Hull Heavy Flamer
150 2 Hydras

Total: 995 pts.

-------------------- Or even this: --------------------

HQ
70 Primaris Psyker

Troops
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera
155 Veteran Squad w/3 x Melta, Chimera
95 Veteran Squad w/3 x Grenade Launcher, Autocannon

Fast Attack
145 Hellhound w/Hull Multi-Melta

Heavy Support
165 Leman Russ Battle Tank w/Hull Lascannon
215 Leman Russ Exterminator (AC Russ) w/Hull Lascannon, Pask

Total: 1000 pts.

Any way you go, you need to be able to pop 2 or more transports (Or AV11/12 AT Platforms) on turn 1, and at least one in the following turn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok, I've been mulling it over a bit, and this is another 1500 point list I've come up with to combat my opponent:

HQ
Company Command Squad with 4 meltas and a Chimera - 145

Fast Attack
Devildog with Multi-melta - 135
Devildog with Multi-melta - 135
Devildog with Multi-melta - 135

Troops
Veteran Squad with 3 meltas and a Chimera - 155
Veteran Squad with 3 meltas and a Chimera - 155

Platoon Command Squad with Lascannon - 50
Infantry Squad with Lascannon - 70
Infantry Squad with Lascannon - 70

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Battle Tank with Heavy Bolter - 150
Leman Russ Battle Tank with Heavy Bolter - 150
Leman Russ Battle Tank with Heavy Bolter - 150

Total: 1500

The idea with this list is to have the Chimeras and Devildogs move to the front lines while the Russes and the platoon stay back to provide covering fire and squat any home objectives. Russes will focus on his infantry while just about everything else focuses on his armor. Once I pop his tanks I should have the game in the bag; even if he destroys the chimeltas to the man, he'll still have three Russes to contend with, unless my bad luck kicks in again and he manages to tank-hunt them all with a lascannon heavy weapon squad.

Edit: I can't quite remember; if the Devildog only moves 6", can it fire both its meltacannon and the multi-melta? I remember being able to fire all weapons on a fast vehicle as long as you move 6" or less.
 

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HQ
Company Command Squad with 4 meltas and a Chimera - 145
Good in itself, but if you're going to run a platoon you might consider keeping this squad back on the line with AC/GL or LC/PG for the best orders and sending the PCS forward instead.

Fast Attack
Devildog with Multi-melta - 135
Devildog with Multi-melta - 135
Devildog with Multi-melta - 135
These could work. Though I think I'd swap at least one for a Hellhound. Having the ability to deny cover saves is golden vs. Hoards.

Troops
Veteran Squad with 3 meltas and a Chimera - 155
Veteran Squad with 3 meltas and a Chimera - 155

Platoon Command Squad with Lascannon - 50
Infantry Squad with Lascannon - 70
Infantry Squad with Lascannon - 70
Go with autocannons and grenade launchers on the blob. ACs are >= lascannons at killing light armor. If you give the PCS 4 meltas they make a nice cheap Chimelta unit. The CCS would be a better order-giver anyhow. Put a Commissar in the blob too if you can.


Heavy Support
Leman Russ Battle Tank with Heavy Bolter - 150
Leman Russ Battle Tank with Heavy Bolter - 150
Leman Russ Battle Tank with Heavy Bolter - 150
You really need heavy flamers or lascannons on these. I think I'd also trade one for an Eradicator (Think of it as the Hellhound Russ).

Edit: I can't quite remember; if the Devildog only moves 6", can it fire both its meltacannon and the multi-melta? I remember being able to fire all weapons on a fast vehicle as long as you move 6" or less.
You are correct!
 
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