[mynameisgrax]

Two (hopefully) last Mad Doc questions:

1. What happens if you start the Mad Doc in a transport? It says that he and unit he's attached to always move towards and assaults the nearest unit, but what if he's in a transport? He technically isn't attached to the transport, but does it affect the vehicle's movement in some way? Does he automatically leave it? Does the movement rule not apply?

2. The rules state that the Mad Doc's unit always moves toward and assaults the nearest enemy, but how does that affect shooting? At what point is the 'must assault the nearest opponent' rule take effect? The rules state you can only assault the enemy you shot at, but does this mean the Mad Doc's rule forces you to always shoot at the nearest target, as he's always going to attempt to assault said unit? If you're within assault range, can you choose to shoot another unit besides the closest? In other words, does the 'must always assault the nearest opponent' rule override the 'must assault the unit you shot at' rule, allowing you to assault a unit besides the one you shot at, or does the movement/assault rule control who you can target with shooting?

 

[MouseC112]

1. What happens if you start the Mad Doc in a transport? It says that he and unit he's attached to always move towards and assaults the nearest unit, but what if he's in a transport? He technically isn't attached to the transport, but does it affect the vehicle's movement in some way? Does he automatically leave it? Does the movement rule not apply?

There's no FAQ, and no real clear indication anywhere. Lets say you attach him to a squad in a trukk. My thoughts are you should always move towards the nearest unit. Now, no where does it say you have to go full speed to my knowledge, so i'd say as long as your move takes you closer than you were, your pretty safe.


2. The rules state that the Mad Doc's unit always moves toward and assaults the nearest enemy, but how does that affect shooting? At what point is the 'must assault the nearest opponent' rule take effect? The rules state you can only assault the enemy you shot at, but does this mean the Mad Doc's rule forces you to always shoot at the nearest target, as he's always going to attempt to assault said unit? If you're within assault range, can you choose to shoot another unit besides the closest? In other words, does the 'must always assault the nearest opponent' rule override the 'must assault the unit you shot at' rule, allowing you to assault a unit besides the one you shot at, or does the movement/assault rule control who you can target with shooting?

This is a little sticky. With the must assault rule, technically your not really allowed to opt to shoot a different unit to prevent yourself purposefully from assaulting the nearest unit. Now if he's in a vehicle, and has the "must assault" then this to me is inferring if there's a unit potentially within your assault range, then you must disembark prior to the assault phase. It somewhat breaks the flow of move, shoot, assault, but then again your being forced to do it. Must assault means, must assault.

So with Mad Doc
-always move towards nearest unit, even if in a vehicle would be my understanding
-always assault means you must always try to assault, now you could potentially move towards the nearest unit shoot them, and clear your assault range of opponent. But do remember you can assault multiple squads.

Again no clear rule anywhere, but just my interpretation

 

[mynameisgrax]

Hmm...

I'm a little uncertain with the 'transport' problem, because rules restricting or expanding upon a unit's movement never applies to the transport they're in. Otherwise, vehicles holding 'fleeting' troops could fleet another d6in, and vehicles holding a unit wearing mega-armor would suffer the movement penalties. The problem is that Mad Doc's rules say that the rules also applies to any unit he's attached to. Does a vehicle count as attached? I understand he must always assault if possible, and I agree he'd disembark and assault if he could, but it's still unclear if the vehicle has to move towards the nearest unit, and how fast it can go. If it goes as fast as possible, then he can't disembark and get the assault. I'll probably have to wait for an FAQ, but until then I agree with your interpretation, that the vehicle simply must move towards the nearest target, but not necessarily at top speed.

With shooting the real heart of the question is: what takes priority, the 'only assault the unit you shot at' rule, or Mad Doc's? Say Mad Doc's unit wipes out the nearest unit through shooting, and there's another unit within assault distance. The core rules say that he can't assault them, because he shot at another unit, but Mad Doc's rules say that he must assault the nearest enemy unit.

Why can't they make an Ork codex without ambiguity? :?

 

[MouseC112]

With shooting the real heart of the question is: what takes priority, the 'only assault the unit you shot at' rule, or Mad Doc's? Say Mad Doc's unit wipes out the nearest unit through shooting, and there's another unit within assault distance. The core rules say that he can't assault them, because he shot at another unit, but Mad Doc's rules say that he must assault the nearest enemy unit.

Why can't they make an Ork codex without ambiguity? :?

See my day was going perfectly fine until you brought that up!! LOL, honestly that's an awesome question you raise. Technically the codex has to take precedent in certain situations over the BRB. Mad Doc's rules do indicate he "must assault the nearest unit" But what if the ork player wipes out the nearest unit to shooting during the shooting portion of the phase?? Does this mean that during the assault phase his unit has to dive into the nearest, although not originally legal target? I'm not sure. On one hand, by the BRB you can't for the obvious you can't shoot 1 unit then assault the 2nd. On the other hand, Mad Doc MUST, so you have to whether you want to or not. I would dice it off in a 1 off game, and clarify with a judge in a tournament. In a 1 off game though i'd let theme dictate, or give my opponent the choice, because I'm kinda curious myself.

The vehicle question bring up a interesting though. If a Ork Trukk opts to move 24 inches what happens. Technically you can't disembark, so he cannot assault. So does the rule interpretation work backwards?? Can the trukk not move 24 inches because it will force an illegal move later in the assault phase? Or does the trukk move force the assault rule to be invalid because you move 24?

Thinking it through I would think you have a case to shoot 1 unit and not assault another based on the description above of an ork trukk. Basically would I stop a ork player from moving his trukk 24 inches? Heck no.

Chicken or the egg definitely interesting though

 

[Guthbrand]

I believe when units are in a transport, unless stated specifically otherwise in the codex, their rules have no effect on gameplay because the units in the transport are not considered in play. I could be wrong tho, I'll have to look it up.

 

[Roehug]

Originally posted byGuthbrand: I believe when units are in a transport, unless stated specifically otherwise in the codex, their rules have no effect on gameplay because the units in the transport are not considered in play.

Thats what I would go for.When khonre Berzerkers used to suffer similar rules requiring them to move and assult the nearest unit (old codex) it was possible to circumvent this simply by transporting them, their transports never been subjectto their own lust for battle

 

[MouseC112]

not fully

Thats what I would go for.When khonre Berzerkers used to suffer similar rules requiring them to move and assult the nearest unit (old codex) it was possible to circumvent this simply by transporting them, their transports never been subjectto their own lust for battle

But remember, they still had to test for Blood frenzy, and if you rolled blood frenzy you had to leave the transport. I was a khorne player. It was very clearly written that a vehicle in a transport tested before the turn, thus if you rolled for blood frenzy you disembarked and followed those rules.

Orks have no such ruling so you can't assume the vehicle rules are accurate. The transports were unaffected, but the physical unit inside was still bound by normal rules listed under their unit entry.

 

[mynameisgrax]

And then we're right back into the carbonite

But remember, they still had to test for Blood frenzy, and if you rolled blood frenzy you had to leave the transport. I was a khorne player. It was very clearly written that a vehicle in a transport tested before the turn, thus if you rolled for blood frenzy you disembarked and followed those rules.

Orks have no such ruling so you can't assume the vehicle rules are accurate. The transports were unaffected, but the physical unit inside was still bound by normal rules listed under their unit entry.

That's really the question. If they always move towards the nearest enemy, do they leave the vehicle, control the vehicle, or is the rule ignored while they're inside. We'll probably have to wait for the FAQ for this one.