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For whatever reason, I'm under the impression mortars are no longer in IG. Am I crazy? And if I am, how exactlly do they work now?
Mortars..
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827 Posts
They are still there. Just about every infantry unit can have them.:yes:
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IK'll have to get me some then! Thanks.
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But have you seen the stats! There not the best weapon....Thats why most people only take one at most.:yes:
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Hehe, well, I'll give them a whirl, and we'll see.
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2,578 Posts
Mortars have uses:
1> In a command squad to keep them out of LOS, and give them something to do.
2> Vs nasty hidy units like Tau Stealth Suits.
3> Vs anything but MEQs.
I always try and have one Mortar and one Bassilisk in my Army; Indirect Rocks!
1> In a command squad to keep them out of LOS, and give them something to do.
2> Vs nasty hidy units like Tau Stealth Suits.
3> Vs anything but MEQs.
I always try and have one Mortar and one Bassilisk in my Army; Indirect Rocks!
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232 Posts
I'm amazed at the amount of flak mortars get. This is what the naysayers tell us:
1. Low Strength/poor AP
2. Your opponent can spread out his models to reduce their effectiveness
Admittedly, their S and AP is not as great as the other heavy wepons. That's why you put them in all-Mortar support squads; the several Blast templates can cover whole units. Think about this:
1. If you're playing against Orks and Tyranids (the hordiest of all armies) their S and AP is actually sufficient for what you'll be shooting them at.
2. Long-range Barrage weapon. NOTHING is safe, even when your opponent tries to hide out of LOS.
3. If your opponent speads out his models, remeber:
a. CC units bunch together for effect, to keep the maximum # of models in the 2" kill zone. Speading them out reduces their effectiveness.
b. Coming back to the Tyranid/Ork/other hordey CC army example. you should assume that your opponent's units are as close to you as possible already. If he spreads out, he spreads out BACKWARDS and SIDEWAYS, making them a lot easier to target and keep out of CC.
4. Pinning test as an added bonus.
5. Cheap! You can easily fit one in and your opponent isn't likely to shoot at it; he'll know that it won't do much damage itself but wonder why suddenly he isn't getting as many attacks as before, and why he always has to pick casualties from the front ranks of his units...
They're not great team special weapons, but they make great infantry suppression.
1. Low Strength/poor AP
2. Your opponent can spread out his models to reduce their effectiveness
Admittedly, their S and AP is not as great as the other heavy wepons. That's why you put them in all-Mortar support squads; the several Blast templates can cover whole units. Think about this:
1. If you're playing against Orks and Tyranids (the hordiest of all armies) their S and AP is actually sufficient for what you'll be shooting them at.
2. Long-range Barrage weapon. NOTHING is safe, even when your opponent tries to hide out of LOS.
3. If your opponent speads out his models, remeber:
a. CC units bunch together for effect, to keep the maximum # of models in the 2" kill zone. Speading them out reduces their effectiveness.
b. Coming back to the Tyranid/Ork/other hordey CC army example. you should assume that your opponent's units are as close to you as possible already. If he spreads out, he spreads out BACKWARDS and SIDEWAYS, making them a lot easier to target and keep out of CC.
4. Pinning test as an added bonus.
5. Cheap! You can easily fit one in and your opponent isn't likely to shoot at it; he'll know that it won't do much damage itself but wonder why suddenly he isn't getting as many attacks as before, and why he always has to pick casualties from the front ranks of his units...
They're not great team special weapons, but they make great infantry suppression.
The thing is though, Solexus, vs. any other Heavy Weapon the Mortar is laughed out of the ring. Yes they are compartivley cheap and can be effective in vast numbers when kept out of LOS. But most armies are not going to be taking the 5+ support squads required to make this an effective tactic.
Even then, for the same cost I would much rather have 5 Heavy bolter teams, compare the killing power!
As long as the opponent spreads his men out, he is going to be allowing you 1 direct and 2 partials (event that down to 2 directs), then you only have a 1/3 chance of hitting - let's be very generous and say 1/2, as the scatter rolls are difficut to factor in.
So you have 1 Str4 AP6 hit per turn, vs. 1.5 Str5 AP4 hits per turn... I know what I would rather!
Even then, for the same cost I would much rather have 5 Heavy bolter teams, compare the killing power!
As long as the opponent spreads his men out, he is going to be allowing you 1 direct and 2 partials (event that down to 2 directs), then you only have a 1/3 chance of hitting - let's be very generous and say 1/2, as the scatter rolls are difficut to factor in.
So you have 1 Str4 AP6 hit per turn, vs. 1.5 Str5 AP4 hits per turn... I know what I would rather!
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I don't think anyone is saying they are the heavy weapon of choice, but because of a couple specialized reasons, I always try and field one Mortar in my army.
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Yes, I agree generally. I would much rather have a squad of Heavy Bolters than a Mortar Squad.
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I'd go for them, based on one main point
indirect, as pointed out, they will be best out of sight - behind cover - in an infantry army your gonna be hard pressed to find enough cover for all 5 HB squads and your infantry (this is on an average board), so considering that a shooty army could potentially blow your HB squads away as a couple have ended up in the open, your loosing fire power. compare with taking a motar squad - you have a squad that can keep up continous fire, without taking up valuable space in the cover needed for direct fire weapons. Also having just taken some really annoying losses for motars this morning - they can be a pain to shift!
indirect, as pointed out, they will be best out of sight - behind cover - in an infantry army your gonna be hard pressed to find enough cover for all 5 HB squads and your infantry (this is on an average board), so considering that a shooty army could potentially blow your HB squads away as a couple have ended up in the open, your loosing fire power. compare with taking a motar squad - you have a squad that can keep up continous fire, without taking up valuable space in the cover needed for direct fire weapons. Also having just taken some really annoying losses for motars this morning - they can be a pain to shift!
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Here is a tactic I have used with some success in the past, especially in a Cleanse game:
Take Light Infantry Doctrine, and put mortar's and vet sgts in two or three squads. The squad is only 86 pts, so not too expensive.
infiltrate these three Squads behind the farthest cover, in the farthest corners of the board. Your enemy will not look at these as much of a threat and generally leave alone, concentrating on your main force.
If your enemy is dosn't expend some effort on these cheap squads, you will have grabbed or at least contested a table quarter.:yes:
Take Light Infantry Doctrine, and put mortar's and vet sgts in two or three squads. The squad is only 86 pts, so not too expensive.
infiltrate these three Squads behind the farthest cover, in the farthest corners of the board. Your enemy will not look at these as much of a threat and generally leave alone, concentrating on your main force.
If your enemy is dosn't expend some effort on these cheap squads, you will have grabbed or at least contested a table quarter.:yes:
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I agree with you. When I play IG 1000 pts + I always take one mortar support squad. Three indirect blast templates with a range of 48" are almost always effective (for me anyway). In two turns my mortars killed a unit of dark reapers.Inquisitor Solexus said:
Wow, I think you are a lucky person, Fischig. Anybody who knows how to use Reapers is going to have them 2" apart to minimize the risk of being anihilated by templates. The odds say that with a 3" blast template you will only be hitting 1 Reaper with a template, take into account it's innacuracy (give it a 50/50 chance, which is more than generaous), that's 3 hits, 2 wounds, 1 saved... So statisticaly that is 1 Reaper dead, and it only took you 2 turns and 80pts.Godwyn_Fischig said:
However, a heavy bolter squad will do the following in 2 turns (asuming you can get it in range): 18 shots, 9 hits, 7.5 wounds, no saves, and it cost the same.
I think people are overestimating the benefits of a small blast template here, it is next to useless in my book, and pinning is only an added bonus, as you actualy have to wound to make them test, which is rarley going to happen!
The only merit of a mortar squad is indirect fire. But it is an indirect fire weapon that is otherwise useless.
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328 Posts
id hit it
Ive used mortars, i still use them against orks and low armored opponents like nids, other IG, and even against tau/kroot.
There are rules to them though:
Do use them when you are dealing with bunching/hording armies like the orks, nids.
DONT use them against SM termies
DO use them when the opponent is out of shooting range, but you still want to take a few pot shots at them.
The mortar can pin, a great trait against an army like orks or nids, where their base trooper with totally pwn you in CC.
They keep out of sight, out of aim
Come with a FRAG and KRAK option (altough i may be mistaken)
They get to fire pretty much every turn, hit or miss, extra shots are still possible missed rolls for the enemy, and more corpses.
NOT EVERY SINGLE HEAVY TEAM HAS TO BE A BOLTER/AUTO/LAS
This is the same crap ppl say about flamers and their usefulness.
Let me tell you, FLAMERS are awesome, especially on a map with cover.
Ive used mortars, i still use them against orks and low armored opponents like nids, other IG, and even against tau/kroot.
There are rules to them though:
Do use them when you are dealing with bunching/hording armies like the orks, nids.
DONT use them against SM termies
DO use them when the opponent is out of shooting range, but you still want to take a few pot shots at them.
The mortar can pin, a great trait against an army like orks or nids, where their base trooper with totally pwn you in CC.
They keep out of sight, out of aim
Come with a FRAG and KRAK option (altough i may be mistaken)
They get to fire pretty much every turn, hit or miss, extra shots are still possible missed rolls for the enemy, and more corpses.
NOT EVERY SINGLE HEAVY TEAM HAS TO BE A BOLTER/AUTO/LAS
This is the same crap ppl say about flamers and their usefulness.
Let me tell you, FLAMERS are awesome, especially on a map with cover.
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