[nougat]

Can you move through a friendly unit?
or does the coherency create a barrier to movement? like they are a chain gang or something - dont' want to trip over the invisible chain between squad members!

 

[tarzen]

Can you move through a friendly unit?
or does the coherency create a barrier to movement? like they are a chain gang or something - dont' want to trip over the invisible chain between squad members!

you can move through the gaps, but you may not move through a base. So if you have 2 models 1/2 inch apart, you may not move a model through that gap, even though they are friendly models.

 

[LordCreampuff]

Correct. Models must be able to physically fit between the bases to be able to pass through the existing unit. You must also trace the exact route when measuring movement. Don't forget that running around other models eats up the 6" movement really quick.

 

[Laplace]

Correct. Models must be able to physically fit between the bases to be able to pass through the existing unit. You must also trace the exact route when measuring movement. Don't forget that running around other models eats up the 6" movement really quick.

Technically correct, but in practical games so long as the entire unit isn't moving more than 6" anyway it's ok to do some reshuffling.

If you had to keep track of EVERY model's move allowance as it was moving it would get tedious and long very quickly.

Say you had that 1/2" gap and wanted to move some ppl up. So you move 1 model 1/2". It has 5 1/2" left. Now move the troop you wanted to move through that hole. Now do the same for another back unit but oh wait, that 1/2" that one guy did now makes another hole smaller. Got to move him or another guy 1/2" so rear guy #2 can move up, etc.

You see my point?

Generally, as long as no one model moves futher than 6" from it's starting location I don't make my opponent (or myself) calculate these less than 1 inch movements in order to swerve around other models just to change the shape of the squad. That's just plain anal IMO.

Yeah, technically for WBB you have to roll for each down Necron warrior one at a time, and if it so happens that after a couple failed WBB your next roll is out of 6" from something to copy you can't roll it. But again, that just gets anal.

 

[tarzen]

Technically correct, but in practical games so long as the entire unit isn't moving more than 6" anyway it's ok to do some reshuffling.

If you had to keep track of EVERY model's move allowance as it was moving it would get tedious and long very quickly.

Say you had that 1/2" gap and wanted to move some ppl up. So you move 1 model 1/2". It has 5 1/2" left. Now move the troop you wanted to move through that hole. Now do the same for another back unit but oh wait, that 1/2" that one guy did now makes another hole smaller. Got to move him or another guy 1/2" so rear guy #2 can move up, etc.

You see my point?

Generally, as long as no one model moves futher than 6" from it's starting location I don't make my opponent (or myself) calculate these less than 1 inch movements in order to swerve around other models just to change the shape of the squad. That's just plain anal IMO.

Yeah, technically for WBB you have to roll for each down Necron warrior one at a time, and if it so happens that after a couple failed WBB your next roll is out of 6" from something to copy you can't roll it. But again, that just gets anal.

No, as you're breaking the rules, by moving models 2 times. Please, refrain from posting house rules without rules support.
Reshuffling huh, so if I daisy chain my squad A-------h I can move a 6 inches, and the rest around him? I don't think so. Each model may move 6". No more (unless special rules apply). To do otherwise is cheating by moving more than allowed.

 

[Ebon Hand]

Too many players are liberal with their movement. I have had a player claim to charge me first turn because he moved, fleeted on 6, and charged 12, even though he was supposed to have started more than 24 inches away.

There is a difference between being anal and being fair. Even if the game takes a 2 minutes longer because a player made sure he was moving each model only 6 inches, its worth it, because wars are sometimes won and lost on a single charge.

Now if a player is taking 30 minutes to move because his opponent wants him to move each one exactly 6 inches from where each gaunt started, thats where things are getting out of hand. Players should agree to be good sports and allow a small amout of free reign, but also try to move at least no more than 6 inches. If a charge ends up a millimeter out of reach, go ahead and give it to them, or settle it on a d6 if its a matter of life and death.

 

[tarzen]

Too many players are liberal with their movement. I have had a player claim to charge me first turn because he moved, fleeted on 6, and charged 12, even though he was supposed to have started more than 24 inches away.

There is a difference between being anal and being fair. Even if the game takes a 2 minutes longer because a player made sure he was moving each model only 6 inches, its worth it, because wars are sometimes won and lost on a single charge.

Now if a player is taking 30 minutes to move because his opponent wants him to move each one exactly 6 inches from where each gaunt started, thats where things are getting out of hand. Players should agree to be good sports and allow a small amout of free reign, but also try to move at least no more than 6 inches. If a charge ends up a millimeter out of reach, go ahead and give it to them, or settle it on a d6 if its a matter of life and death.

Agreed. That's why I'm anal about peoples front row and back row when they move. Not too worried about the middle stuff, but they ain't moving 8 inches, or 6.5. If you start out more than 12" away, then after a 6 inch, and a 6" you certainly ain't within 12" now, are you.

 

[LordCreampuff]

I agree completely. I cut a few pieces of wire to 6" and 12" lengths to be used for movement. This makes it much easier to verify models are moving the correct amount. When you use a tape measure for movement it's hard to see the numbers from across the table. Using wire makes it easy to see and allowes you to bend it around obstacles to measure non-straight movement.

 

[Visitor Q]

Frankly its all about who you are playing and WHY you are playing, if you want a quick afternoon game with your mates then the very distinct rules on moving through squads (I am not talking about moving further than you should in terms of straight measuring because that really annoys me). shouldn't get in your way.

If you are playing a tournament then the rules clearly should be played to the letter.

Its all about
(i) Consistancy- if both players can do it no harm done
(ii)Comparitive Benifit- clearly being able to move through a horde army like Tyranids is more useful than a couple of marine squads "intermingling".

Useful houserule would be models of the same base can move through each other with out penelty I use that and it works fine. In any case if your battles come down to whether the space marine could barge past his comrade in a different squad then there is something seriously wrong.

 

[Laplace]

Reshuffling huh, so if I daisy chain my squad A-------h I can move a 6 inches, and the rest around him? I don't think so. Each model may move 6". No more (unless special rules apply). To do otherwise is cheating by moving more than allowed.

I specifically said in my post (which you quoted, please reread it) that as long as any model doesn't move 6" from IT'S ORIGINAL LOCATION that I have no qualms about reshullfing.

So I am not saying the guy in the way back in a straight line can all of a sudden move to the front. I said he can move 6" without taking into account every other model he may have to move out of the way.

And I am not saying rules should be ignored per se. What I am saying is that if you verified EVERY SINGLE move to the letter of the law for every single model your games would be inordinately long.

 

[LordCreampuff]

I specifically said in my post (which you quoted, please reread it) that as long as any model doesn't move 6" from IT'S ORIGINAL LOCATION that I have no qualms about reshullfing.

So I am not saying the guy in the way back in a straight line can all of a sudden move to the front. I said he can move 6" without taking into account every other model he may have to move out of the way.

And I am not saying rules should be ignored per se. What I am saying is that if you verified EVERY SINGLE move to the letter of the law for every single model your games would be inordinately long.

I can see your point. However, the rules clearly state that you move a single model before you move another. So, moving one model, then another, and then the original model the remainder of its allowed movement you are breaking the rules. We cannot break one rule to assist with another.

 

[MobiusPrime]

I can see your point. However, the rules clearly state that you move a single model before you move another. So, moving one model, then another, and then the original model the remainder of its allowed movement you are breaking the rules. We cannot break one rule to assist with another.

Additionally to this, you are only supposed to move one squad at a time.

You can't drive a Chimera 6" out of a bottleneck, move infantry though, then drive the same Chimera 6" back into it's original location.
Even if it doesn't excede its maximum move allowance, you can't do this.

You either have to move the Chimera, then move the infantry, and that's it.
Or move the infantry over or around the difficult terrain (or whatever is creating the bottleneck) and then choose whether or not to move the Chimera.


(similar, yet unrelated situation)
This is similar to shooting with multiple units at one target. You might be inclined to throw all the dice at once in order to quicken up the game a little bit. However, casualties inflicted by the first squad's shooting could make the second squad out of range to even hit.
Also, doing this negates any feasible chance to claim the targetted member rule (ex. if a unit of 5 models takes 5 or more wounds from one enemy unit's shooting, the shooter may designate a specific model to take a hit) as you can't be sure where all of the wounds are coming from.

 

[Visitor Q]

Additionally to this, you are only supposed to move one squad at a time.

You can't drive a Chimera 6" out of a bottleneck, move infantry though, then drive the same Chimera 6" back into it's original location.
Even if it doesn't excede its maximum move allowance, you can't do this.

You either have to move the Chimera, then move the infantry, and that's it.
Or move the infantry over or around the difficult terrain (or whatever is creating the bottleneck) and then choose whether or not to move the Chimera.


(similar, yet unrelated situation)
This is similar to shooting with multiple units at one target. You might be inclined to throw all the dice at once in order to quicken up the game a little bit. However, casualties inflicted by the first squad's shooting could make the second squad out of range to even hit.
Also, doing this negates any feasible chance to claim the targetted member rule (ex. if a unit of 5 models takes 5 or more wounds from one enemy unit's shooting, the shooter may designate a specific model to take a hit) as you can't be sure where all of the wounds are coming from.

Yeah but you should still maintain the spirit of the game (If you are plaing a rules lawyer the game becomes an exercise in citation and rather pointless). In the example that you gave with shooting GW strongly encourages players to fire guess weaponry first before conventonal weaponry to make the game fairer. By the strict letter of the rules however it is not necessary to do this. As I said before if your game comes down to whether a marine can get past one of his comrades it is rather a lame victory.

 

[LordCreampuff]

Yeah but you should still maintain the spirit of the game (If you are plaing a rules lawyer the game becomes an exercise in citation and rather pointless). In the example that you gave with shooting GW strongly encourages players to fire guess weaponry first before conventonal weaponry to make the game fairer. By the strict letter of the rules however it is not necessary to do this. As I said before if your game comes down to whether a marine can get past one of his comrades it is rather a lame victory.

There is a difference between following the rules and following the spirit of the game. There is also a defference between following the rules and being a rules lawyer. The movement rules are clearly defined and there is very little to argue about them as a whole. If you decide not to follow any of them when playing with friends that's fine as long as everyone is aware of the changes beforehand. Personally I find it much easier to simply follow the written rules and come up with mutually agreed solutions to the holes within them.
We look at this game like a complicated game of chess. You have complete control of who, how, and when you move your troops. If you make a mistake and move them in the wrong order too bad. I'm not saying be a jerk and don't allow your opponent to change his mind but moving troops multiple times is just asking for trouble when 1" really matters. When you play a CC army (I play nids), where 1" could mean life or death and possibly the game, you make sure your measurements are correct. The fewer you make the less likely you will be to make a mistake.

 

[Laplace]

There is a difference between following the rules and following the spirit of the game. There is also a defference between following the rules and being a rules lawyer. The movement rules are clearly defined and there is very little to argue about them as a whole. If you decide not to follow any of them when playing with friends that's fine as long as everyone is aware of the changes beforehand. Personally I find it much easier to simply follow the written rules and come up with mutually agreed solutions to the holes within them.
We look at this game like a complicated game of chess. You have complete control of who, how, and when you move your troops. If you make a mistake and move them in the wrong order too bad. I'm not saying be a jerk and don't allow your opponent to change his mind but moving troops multiple times is just asking for trouble when 1" really matters. When you play a CC army (I play nids), where 1" could mean life or death and possibly the game, you make sure your measurements are correct. The fewer you make the less likely you will be to make a mistake.

What is odd is that since there is so much emphasis on doing things "right" that GW or any major tourneys do not place a time limit on how long it takes to do a phase/turn.

For example, most tourneys have games which are 2 hours long, and on average 6 turns each. Plus, if a full turn isn't completed (meaning the person who went first got to go but there isn't enough time for the second person to go) the turn is nullified.

Therefore, if I get a sense that early on I'll have the upper hand (either more scoring units, or whatever) or am the on the verge of a loss and want to keep it a draw, I could if I wanted to be really anal take 45 minutes during my moving phase to move and measure every model with a fine toothed comb.

Technically I AM following the rules. Sure my sportsmanship score will go down the tubes but what if that is not my goal?

 

[LordCreampuff]

Technically you are following the rules. I see it the same as going last in a "capture table quarters" game and spending the turn moving fast units all over the place just to take table quarters. Sure, in real life battles don't end on turns or time but this is a game. You can choose to follow the printed rules or not. You can choose to be a good sport or not. Your opponents can choose if they want to play against you again.

In the end it's still just a game and games are meant to be fun for both players.