[Lamoron]

Hey there people... as a new(ish) player we ran into a rules problem last night. My Greater Demon (Strenght 6) was fighting a necron Tomb Spyder with three Scarab Swarms attached and some warriors. The Greater Demon chose to attack the Tomb Spyder unit and rolled 3 hits & 3 wounds (Majority Toughness 3).

As we understand it, the three scarab swarms are hit (them having the majority armor saves) and with strenght 6 on the Greater Demon, they are instantly killed with toughness 3. So far so good, except when the assault phase ended and we calculated combat results, we were unsure if the Greater Demon had inflicted 3 or 9 wounds (3x 3 wound models).

The same question stands with Force Weapons killing a 4 wound model... one or four wounds inflicted?

Hope you can help me... I tried the search function but couldn't find anything.

 

[Moglun]

Hey there people... as a new(ish) player we ran into a rules problem last night. My Greater Demon (Strenght 6) was fighting a necron Tomb Spyder with three Scarab Swarms attached and some warriors. The Greater Demon chose to attack the Tomb Spyder unit and rolled 3 hits & 3 wounds (Majority Toughness 3).

As we understand it, the three scarab swarms are hit (them having the majority armor saves) and with strenght 6 on the Greater Demon, they are instantly killed with toughness 3. So far so good, except when the assault phase ended and we calculated combat results, we were unsure if the Greater Demon had inflicted 3 or 9 wounds (3x 3 wound models).

The same question stands with Force Weapons killing a 4 wound model... one or four wounds inflicted?

Hope you can help me... I tried the search function but couldn't find anything.

That would count as 3 wounds for combat results, as each scarab received one wound and then died - note that the rules indicate that the victim of instant death is killed, but do not say anything about him suffering any extra wounds.

With that said, I'm sure some people would choose to play it as though you had inflicted nine wounds (or eight if the scarabs had suffered one wound earlier, etc).

 

[Skarsgard]

If a model is "killed" you have removed it's total wounds. It doesn't really matter how you did it. So if the GD killed 3 of the Scarabs, then it caused 9 wounds.

 

[Lamoron]

Well, you managed the exact same two sides of the argument we did

Now, do any of you have something to quote or link to back up your interpretation?

 

[tarzen]

Hey there people... as a new(ish) player we ran into a rules problem last night. My Greater Demon (Strenght 6) was fighting a necron Tomb Spyder with three Scarab Swarms attached and some warriors. The Greater Demon chose to attack the Tomb Spyder unit and rolled 3 hits & 3 wounds (Majority Toughness 3).

As we understand it, the three scarab swarms are hit (them having the majority armor saves) and with strenght 6 on the Greater Demon, they are instantly killed with toughness 3. So far so good, except when the assault phase ended and we calculated combat results, we were unsure if the Greater Demon had inflicted 3 or 9 wounds (3x 3 wound models).

The same question stands with Force Weapons killing a 4 wound model... one or four wounds inflicted?

Hope you can help me... I tried the search function but couldn't find anything.

The rules say that you only inflicted 3 wounds. You managed to kill more wounds worth, but for combat res, it's still 3 wounds as per the bgb. This is actually clarified in the force weapon rules if you're looking for the stated rule.

If a demon kills 1 scarab swarm, but takes 2 return wounds, even though he's killed 3 wounds worth of model, it is still only 1 wound INFLICTED vs the 2 on him, so he loses combat.

 

[Moglun]

Well, you managed the exact same two sides of the argument we did

Now, do any of you have something to quote or link to back up your interpretation?

I suppose that depends on what you accept as evidence. Let me have a go:

1) The rulebook indicates that when a model has lost all of its wounds, it is removed as a casualty (see p. 27 under 'creatures with more than one wound'). However, it does NOT say that if a model is removed as a casualty then it has lost all of its wounds.

2) Also on p. 27, under 'instant death', the rules refer to a model being killed by a double strength weapon after only suffering ONE wound, regardless of said model's total wounds. Again, nowhere does it mention anything about the model suffering more than one wound as a result of this - this model suffers one wound and is then removed as a casualty.

So, while it doesn't flat out answer your question one way or another anywhere in the text, it does explain how to resolve instant death attacks, and this consists only of removing the slain model. There is nothing about multiplying of wounds, nothing about the attack 'counting as' extra wounds, and nothing about a slain model automatically suffering extra wounds.

EDIT: Ah yes, force weapons. Check p.46, with thanks to Tarzen. Not EXACTLY the same situation, but it certainly provides some precedent.

 

[Lamoron]

This is actually clarified in the force weapon rules if you're looking for the stated rule.

Well, that settles it for me anyway... thanks a lot never noticed that...

 

[eiglepulper]

P.43 BGB under "Determine Assault results", lines 5-end of the first paragraph also state very clearly how things are worked. It is only wounds which are inflicted that count, as has already been said above.

E.