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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Well, I thought I'd post up my latest incarnation of the list I'm using. Having played a few games with my Elves now, I've rejigged a couple of units, namely the configuration of my Special Choices, for what I think is the best, most competent list there is.

It comes out at exactly 2000 points:

Level 4 Archmage
Seerstaff of Saphery/Ring of Fury/Dispel Scroll

Level 2 Mage
Jewel of the Dusk/Dispel Scroll

Level 2 Mage
Silver Wand/Dispel Scroll

15 Spearmen
Standard/Musician

10 Archers

7 Phoenix Guard
Full Command/Banner of Sorcery

14 Swordmasters
Full Command/Amulet of Light

5 Dragon Princes
Musician

5 Dragon Princes
Musician

Repeater Bolt Thrower

Repeater Bolt Thrower

Great Eagle

Great Eagle

TOTAL – 2000 pts.

Power Pool: 11 + Banner of Sorcery + Ring of Fury
Dispel Pool: 6 + 3 Scrolls + HE Dispel Bonus


Mainly I've been having a lot of trouble keeping my 14-strong Swordmasters alive and I've found that, whilst they're great in some situations, Shadow Warriors aren't killing enough. My archmage is also now off the horse as I dont like the viewing limits it puts on him.

Hope you've been having as much fun with HE as I have.

Q

:C
 

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As usual from one of your lists Quannum seriously magic heavy! I think that you have arguably the optimum configuration for your mages and the magical assault from hell. I see you have changed to the MSU approach to the special choices, its certainly easier to take advantage of cover with such units and they give the enemy so many more targets to agonise over, in addition they are more flexible and loosing one dosn't affect you battle plan so radically and gives the enemy less points. I agree the shaddow warriors dont seem to work as effectively as the appear they should, certainly not in my lists and the eagles are more effective and adaptable. My only concern is with such small units is their vulnerability to missile fire, but then their easier to hide and there are more targets to shoot at. I think you would only suffer in a battle with little cover and a missile heavy oponent, but then i suppose you got the magic to deal with that as well. I think it should work very well, best of luck and may the dice gods be kind to you in the tournament.

P.S. Your original list is now at 23 battles without a loss (including 5 draws) and none of my regular opponents will fight if i use it!
 

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It looks like a very solid, magic heavy list, although I do have some reservations about it.

1) A unit of 7 Pheonix Guard carrying that banner is a bit small for me, but I suppose if you know how to use them, you could be ok. To solve this, you could drop 1 man from each of the swordmasters groups, and 2 spearmen, to bulk this unit up to 10 strong.

2) The multiple small unit tactic is fine in theory, but one good round of shooting will decimate the swordmasters. It would worry me, but again, I suppose it depends on board and magic, perhaps using the Howler Wind?

I hope this helps. Let me know how you do

ninja out
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I had the same thoughts as you GN with regards to multiple small units. White Lions IMO are best suited for this tactic, however you're right about the Swordsmasters.

Thus, I've edited my list above for a final time:

I took out 5 Spearmen (I've never needed the full twenty and this way they get to fight in three ranks still) and joined the two units of Swordmasters together whilst adding a Full Command group and the Amulet of Light. This means I have less units to worry getting Shield of Saphery onto, it also returns the Swordmasters back to a suitable unit size, and may be the decider between who gets first turn.


As for the Phoenix Guard, I'm actually a massive fan of this type of unit when it comes to hiding an Archmage. I've had real trouble with my mage on a horse. Its just not worth it.

Q
 

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If your Archmage is planning on staying in the unit if the PG get charged, keep in mind that your opponent is probably going to use his wheel to line up and make sure your Archmage is going to be involved. Typically you'll put the Archmage on the far end of the line so he is as far from enemy models as possible, but if the wheel works, not only will your Archmage be engaged, but you'll only have at most 6 PG fighting (6 + Archmage = 7 = maximum frontage), and perhaps only 5, depending on opponent unit size. Now if you are planning to have him jump ship the turn before the opponent charges, keep in mind that if he can't get himself into a unit that won't be involved in combat, the opponent will get a chance to pick him off before you get another turn to move him.

The only other thing I'll say is that PG are the worst unit of the three elite infantry to go 7-man... they win combat with static CR; their single attack S4 halberds aren't nearly as good as the double attack S5 greatswords or S6 greataxes, they win combat mostly because they don't die as easily, and usually you have at least 1 or 2, if not 3, ranks of static CR behind you, and possibly outnumber. The "outnumbered by a fear-causing enemy" auto-break is your friend. That said, I don't know that there is a ton you can do about this without drastically changing the list, unless you want to dump Spearmen for a 10 man archer unit and pick up 40 points (which is not quite enough to get to 10 PG), and the rest looks quite good.

You may want to check your math though, I did it twice and got 2005 pts.
 

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As you said in the original post you had difficulty in getting a unit of 14 SM into combat how are you going to achieve this with the new army list? If you can't get them into combat consistently and effectively with the 3 mage magic heavy list that I admire so much what chance has anybody else! Most HE players i know run with 2 mages in their army list and you have 3 chances to cast SOS per turn and still cant get them into combat effectively. what does this say about the SM, do we have to use them in units of 20+ to get them into combat or keep them for games against opponents with missile light armys? I have tried both of these options against a variety of opponents in differing terrain and can usually garantee getting into combat with 20 SM and a reasonable magic phase whatever my opponents missile capacity and they are lethal in any number against missile light army's.Or are they to be consigned to the role of resrve units behind you battle line as quick response to breakthroughs or ambush units?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Cheers for the thoughts guys.

Really the PG are a unique choice and yes, offensively, they are the worst of the three choices. But their fear-causing, ward-saving presence is awesome on the tabletop for defensive purposes. trust me, i've experienced a hardened tournie player use this config and it was amazingly effective. I'll vouch for it each time and will be keeping it here I think especially as I haven't had to sacrifice too much to get it in.

Aenar your point about the 14-strong SM is well made. SM are born to be weak against missile and magic but it wasnt as much that it was a 14 strong unit as the fact i couldnt get SoS off on them. Its amazing to see just how much they improve when you get a 5+ ward save. To be honest, the list we worked on in Demandred's thread is pretty much optimum, I'm just tweaking it in various ways to try and achieve the same effect hence this thread.


just a quick poll, but how many seperate units (including characters and warmachines) do you guys have to deploy at the start? I make my count 10 which is fairly high!


Q

p.s. you're right about 2005 points ga1661, i'll have to do a slight rejig.
 

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Just wondered if 3 dispel scrolls was a little bit of overkill as you already have quite a lot of magic defense with 8 levels of magic.

Might be better to drop 2 of the scrolls and give the mage with the Silver Wand the Annulian Crystal. That way you will still have one scroll to shut down a spell when you really need to, and the added advantage of the enemy having one less power dice in each turn and you being boosted up to 7 Dispel dice which IMO should be more than enough. I think with most armies you will have more dice that they do :)

I'm also not sure if I would perhaps swap the Phoenix Guard and Sword Masters around so that the PG could soak up more damage and also are more likely to bring fear in to play and the SM could be used more as a strike unit.

just my thoughts but hope they help.
 

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My present count is 14 units including war machines which means I usually go last unless I am fighting a hord army. I agree with you about the SM and am trying to write a new list at the moment as my chracian army performs well against most opponents but consistently gets trashed against others(damm TK). I let some of my friends that play HE use it against the same army's and the results are the same so i think its the army rather than just me this time! The SM and PG are the archytipal elven warriors either supernaturaly skillfull or magically protected, I just cant seem to get a list of my own that includes them that performs well on the battlefiled. Good luck with your new army and as always have fun!
 

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how do you keep your PG from getting killed easily? they have 1 CR and even though they don't lose many, they're not killing many either. Don't your opponents aim for them to get rid of the D3 power dice and possibly a mage?
 

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Hey the list looks great... Just curiuos with the three mages, what magic do run with. The archmage probably gets high magic. Do you use fire and death for the other two mages?

Also can this list stand up against a two steamtank Empire list?
 
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