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  • Raptors & Defiler

    Votes: 8 14.8%
  • Raptors & Obliterators

    Votes: 13 24.1%
  • Raptors & Predator

    Votes: 10 18.5%
  • Terminators & Defiler

    Votes: 2 3.7%
  • Terminators & Obliterators

    Votes: 10 18.5%
  • Terminators & Predator

    Votes: 11 20.4%
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Senior Member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’m currently making a chaos army that at the moment is focused around a winged Deamon Prince, two ten man Deathguard squads and one ten man Thousand Sons squad all three are mounted in rhinos and have the standard wargear and powers.

But my problem is choosing their support units and because I haven’t got a lot of cash I can only select one for each role and want to make sure it is the best choice.

So can you help me choose the best unit for each of these roles?

Close combat units
230 - Raptor Squad: 7 Raptors with Icon of Nurgle and 1 Champion with Powerfist.
(Support the Deamon Prince’s advance or the other units, if a ten man squad is necessary I can ditch 1 Death Guard from each of the squads as well as a meltagun)
-- Or –
230 - Terminator Squad: 4 Terminators, 2 with Powerfists 2 with Power Weapons all with combi bolters, Icon of Nurgle and Champion with Powerfist.
(Deep strike where needed and cause havoc, can ditch a meltagun for 2 combi Meltas)

Long Range Support
150 - Defiler: Battle Cannon, Reaper Auto Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Deamonic Possession, Smoke Launchers, Fleet of Foot.
(Support fire while advancing)
-- Or –
150 – 2 Separate Obliterators
(Deep Strike to get the best shots in on side armour)
-- Or –
150 – Predator: Autocannon, 2 Lascannon Sponsons and Deamonic Possession.
(Your standard support role)

Your help is greatly appreciated.
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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8,843 Posts
Inquisitor Proiteus, what's the rest of your army look like? Knowing this will help to see where your strengths and weaknesses reside.

EDIT: Or does your current build only consist of the prince and the two cult squads?
 

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381 Posts
hi

Based on just what you said you had, I went for the raptors and the pred, because it gives you armour and anti armour in the form of a pred (you need at least 4 or no armour) and some more close combat punch, (7 man not nessacary with nurgle), the reason i didn't cose terms is 'cause there slow moving in contrast with the rest of the units and there better at giving fire surport then combat the defiler isnt very good in the new edition and preds are genrally better then oblits (even though there incredble versitile), hope the ideas help,

Gilli
 

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Swarm Queen of LO
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1,174 Posts
I said Terminators & Predator, but I think you should change the terminators and predators a bit.

Firstly, I would ditch Daemonic Possession on the predator - it's a personal preference, but I like to keep the higher ballistic skill and risk not firing. However, I field almost twice as many vehicles in a similar point game so it's not quite such a big deal.

As for the terminators, I would ditch the Icon and the Champion w/ the Fist. I know it's a Nurgle themed list, but the Icon is way too expensive and won't do a heck of a lot.

Use all your extra points to add another terminator and give a bunch of combi-plasmas or combi-meltas to your terminators.
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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8,843 Posts
I said Terminators & Predator, but I think you should change the terminators and predators a bit.

Firstly, I would ditch Daemonic Possession on the predator - it's a personal preference, but I like to keep the higher ballistic skill and risk not firing. However, I field almost twice as many vehicles in a similar point game so it's not quite such a big deal.

As for the terminators, I would ditch the Icon and the Champion w/ the Fist. I know it's a Nurgle themed list, but the Icon is way too expensive and won't do a heck of a lot.

Use all your extra points to add another terminator and give a bunch of combi-plasmas or combi-meltas to your terminators.
I'll second this all the way around.

When fielding expensive marines, such as plaguers or T.S., armies tend to fall weak against hordes, due to the shortage of bolters. The raptors' bolt pistol is too limiting a range for helping out much. You want some balance to even the scale, as the build is already heavy on 'elite' marines. I'd recommend chosen and a predator, if chosen were an option, but sense they're not, terminators are the next best thing. While they certainly are expensive, at the same time, their shock value greatly helps and can turn the tides of a skirmish upon their arrival.
 

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i chose the raptors definitely, as for the second squad im not really sure. Some may argue fast attack does not fit into the death guard fluff, but i think raptors are like vultures, swooping down on the dead and dying to finish them off. If that doesnt fit in with a plague army, i dont know what does.

As for heavy support, id really like you to consider havocs, there are death guard havoc models you can buy, so they are definitely in the fluff, you can bulk up their squad to have less of a chance of having your heavy weapon holders hit(whereas with an oblit , if he gets aimed at, say goodbye). Defiler was my choice out of the things you picked, you can move and shoot the big cannon, they have decent armor, and if they manage to live to get into CC, they are really nice.
 

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Senior Member
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The Army List

Here whats in the army so far hope it gives you a clearer idea on what to suggest...

HQ
160 - Deamon Prince Sharazad: Wings, Mark of Nurgle and Doombolt.
(Basic Prince tactics use cover to hide him from heavy weapons and close in for the kill and likely draw fire away from the rhinos)

TROOPS
290 - Darkmaker Rokhan: Champion with Powerfist, 9 Undead (Death Guard) Marines, 2 Melta Guns, 7 with Boltguns all with close combat weapon, bolt pistol, Krak and Frag Grenades, Fearless and Feel No Pain!
50 - Raban’s Deathwagon (Rhino): Extra Armour.

300 - Darkmaker Zaceria: Champion with Powerfist, 9 Undead (Death Guard) Marines, 2 Plasma Guns, 7 with Boltguns all with close combat weapon, bolt pistol, Krak and Frag Grenades, Fearless and Feel No Pain!
50 - Zaceria’s Deathwagon (Rhino): Extra Armour.
(These guys drive forward as much as possible using available cover and my deamon prince as a distraction before opening up on the enemy

219 - Darkmaker Tru’kai: Champion Sorcerer with Force Weapon, doombolt and Bolt Pistol, 9 Death Spirits (Thousand Sons) all with Mark Of Tzeentch, Inferno Bolts, Sorcerer Commands, Slow and Purposeful and Fearless!
50 - Tru’kai’s Deathwagon (Rhino): Extra Armour.
(This unit’s role is to support the two Death Guard units)
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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That's a good base for your army. With three rhinos carrying such expensive cargo, a predator or defiler is virtually mandatory, as either forces your opponent to choose between shooting the rhinos or shooting a solid tank buster. Without predators and/or defilers, your transports become the obvious target for enemy tank busters. Hence, your troops will get stranded halfway to the enemy lines. I'm still in favor of the predators, as you need long range tank busting.

Also, what point value are you playing? If it's less than 2000, then I'd advise that you decrease your squad sizes in your plague and T.S. marines to eight. This will save needed points, and eight is sufficient.
 

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Senior Member
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549 Posts
I went with the Raptors / Obliterators choice.

I use a Defiler in every game I play and 2 Predators (standard setup) and what I discovered really early it's that every army you will play against have at least 2 options to blow up AV14 and down. One shot is all it takes to take out a Predator or a Defiler, that's a lot of points and fire support that can go to hell as soon as turn one. So in your situation I would go with 2 Obliterators. They are versatile, they are tough, they have an invul. save and they have 2 wounds each. Later you can add two more Obliterators to your army (for a total of 4) and you will have some strong fire support for your army. You can deploy them at the start or deep strike them for a nasty surprise.

Then I went with the raptors because I find the Terminators really situational. When they deep strike they are sitting ducks for one turn and since you will send them in the thick of it most of the time they tend to die rather quickly. That's what my Terminator do and that's what most of the Terminators (Space Marines mostly) I face do too. They appear, they shoot, they stay where they are and they have to absorb everything that come their way (including charging units since they can't charge on the turn they arrive). Since you want a CC unit, the Terminators won't do what you want them to do and their save won't save them against heavy weaponry or a high volume of fire / CC attacks.

Raptors on the other end are really mobile and they are quite good in CC. It's a very good fast attack choice and well played they perform admirably, especially with 2 meltaguns and a Champion with Lightning Claws. Also your Raptors could follow your Daemon Prince for some added punch, the combination of those 2 units is a devastating one. People will ignore your Raptors most of the time to target your Daemon Prince (who can take some punishment before being killed) and if they go the other way around... well they will learn to fear your Daemon Prince and they won't do that mistake twice :).

Also, you should consider taking Warptime instead of Doombolt for your Daemon Prince... re-rolling those failed CC attacks and wounds every CC turn is priceless and well worth the investment and you will use it more often than Doombolt since your Deamon Prince will be in CC most of the time.

I don't know if the mark of your Daemon Prince is set in stone but I found that the Tzeentch mark is really useful... a 4+ invul. save is something you might want to have against lascannon shots since your prince will be heavily targetted. Since you already have a Thousand Sons squad it would go really well with your army. Also you can give him 2 powers if he have the Tzeentch mark, so you could have Warptime and Doombolt...

The rest look good even if I prefer my Plague Marines with Meltaguns instead of Plasma Guns since you want them up close and personal most of the time you will be able to shoot and charge with the Meltaguns and it gives you a valid option to bust any kind of tanks.

Hope it helps.

Edit: I agree with Rabbit on the size of your Plague Marine squads, 8 will do the job of 10 without problems and it will save you some points, take 4 more Raptors in their place, that will make a nice fast attack unit (or 2 small ones... your choice).
 

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hi

Looks like the majority say for combat raptors, then defiler for firepower but i strongly agree with Rabbit a pred would be a much better coice the a defiler in my opinion, if you don't like raptors by the way termies are my second choice:D

Gilli
 

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thyr, i agree with most of what you said, but im completely confused by you saying plague marines should be up close and personal? For me they're good anti-charge units, and maybe thats what you meant, but if my opponent never charges me, great. I walk them forward, use them as a big target for enemy fire, FNP + extra toughness is very helpful in keeping them alive. Once they are in range, unleash withering fire until the enemy charges me(-attacks for blight grenades). If you take plasma, you can fire at longer range than a meltagun.


That all said, my army uses 1 squad of 7 plague with 2 meltas, and 7 with 2 plasma. Both useful setups, but i dont think they should be used as CC troops, but maybe thats not what you meant. Interested in hearing what you were thinking =).
 

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I voted Defiler and Raptors. I find a really effective way to run Plague Marines is to not give them Sargeants; instead, bring a CC unit or two to back them up as needed. Both Raptors and Defilers work well this way.

As an alternative, with three Rhinos and no other vehicles you may want to consider a minimally-equipped Dread. All first-turn antitank will likely get focused on the Dread, leaving your Rhinos free for the critical first/second turns. Once you get those PMs in position, it'll be your game to lose, so in my mind it's worth the cost.
 

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thyr, i agree with most of what you said, but im completely confused by you saying plague marines should be up close and personal? For me they're good anti-charge units, and maybe thats what you meant, but if my opponent never charges me, great. I walk them forward, use them as a big target for enemy fire, FNP + extra toughness is very helpful in keeping them alive. Once they are in range, unleash withering fire until the enemy charges me(-attacks for blight grenades).
I'm only talking from my experience, but my Plague Marines don't stant shooting too well. Too much fire power/volume and they die. Maybe it's because my opponents know that it's the way to go with them to make them almost ineffective. They are not cheap and when 2 or 3 of them die, the unit become a lot less effective. Now I'm talking about the real Plague Marines, not a Chaos Space Marine unit with an Icon of Nurgle.

I like them in CC as soon as possible as their fire power is not that great even with 2 special weapons. In CC they last a lot longer and their toughness really shine there. They can even withstand a Tyranid Genestealer charge (the most fearsome CC unit in the game). And that hidden power fist is always sure to mop the floor.

I've made my Plague Marines walk up to their target too many times to actually think it's a good way to use them. I've even heavily used 2 14 Plague Marines squads and usually only half of them got where I wanted them to be and do their job. Even lasguns can kill a lot of them if you roll enough 1 and 2's.

I use them that way but I believe everyone of us use them like they choose to. I just believe that their toughness and feel no pain can make them go toe to toe with almost every infantry unit in the game in CC. Put them in a rhino, drive them up to your target and pop the smoke. Disembark them the next turn and charge with a unit at full strength. Now with Uber Grit, with a unit of 10 Plague Marines that will give you 27 normal attacks and 4 Power Fist attacks. They can have Loyalist Assault Marines (CC specialists) for breakfeast anytime. That's where their T5 can make your opponent cry... What??? I need a 5 to wound??? :D... yup and then I have 3+ save and then after that, if I miss any of those I have another 4+ save... :). Try them, you'll see how good they are.
 

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Terminators & Obliterators.

Why? Fluff-wise, ofcourse. The Deathguard are footsloggers, and allthough Raptors are very
good at intercepting, they just don't fit the bill.
Termies and Obliterators are units you can file under 'tough'. And that's what Nurgle is all
about.
 

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....coookies...
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Do you really

Do you really want to put the ksons in a Rhino? I always thought the point was to just walk them forward as a mobile support unit. 10 MEQ beating shots at 24" range each turn is a pain for anyone. Especially your typical marine player. Not to mention that nasty invulnerable save. They are not enormously expensive if you keep them bare and they can be a real pain to get rid off.

Are they usually put in Rhinos?
 

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The other Kind of Fluff
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Do you really want to put the ksons in a Rhino? I always thought the point was to just walk them forward as a mobile support unit. 10 MEQ beating shots at 24" range each turn is a pain for anyone. Especially your typical marine player. Not to mention that nasty invulnerable save. They are not enormously expensive if you keep them bare and they can be a real pain to get rid off.

Are they usually put in Rhinos?
Sometimes, they need a rhino. Against highly mobile skimmer armies and with some mission objectives, having the rhino greatly improves the T.S. squad.
 
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