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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
how does my tactic look? SP vs IG

i got some ultramarines but starting a whole new chapter

my m8 has challenged me for whn i finished to play him, he got a huge IG army

my plan was to hold my ground let him come close with his troops and hit thm with snipers first thn finish with flamers and some terminators while my whirlwinds bombard the feild taking his tanks out!
possibly bikers flanking to help take tanks and then troops from behind

gd plan or not??

be honest or if you got any ideas plz say!! :)
;Y
 

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Set Sail and Conquer!
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i got some ultramarines but starting a whole new chapter

my m8 has challenged me for whn i finished to play him, he got a huge IG army

my plan was to hold my ground let him come close with his troops and hit thm with snipers first thn finish with flamers and some terminators while my whirlwinds bombard the feild taking his tanks out!
possibly bikers flanking to help take tanks and then troops from behind

gd plan or not??

be honest or if you got any ideas plz say!! :)
;Y


What kind of army does he like to field, do you know? Just curious, as holding your ground against a good IG army is kinda like deliberately losing, more often than not.

Whirlwinds are a great choice, but they wont be able to even glance most IG tanks, so you would want to target the ground pounders.

Terminators can be alright, just beware of massed plasma - and do NOT deepstrike them near his lines, it will be a complete waste of an expensive unit if your opponent knows what he is doing. Hmm...I suppose you can do this, just make sure that they are not unsupported - your idea of taking bikes is prime.

The bikes are good for several reasons - you can close in fast (incredibly important VS guard), you can give the sergeant a teleport homer for your terminators, and yes, they can be good with meltas to take out tanks. Just make sure you keep them hidden as they approach, or with their lack of numbers they will be toasted out in the open, turbo boost save or not.

In fact, my advice (if you are really tailoring your army vs IG), is to take as much speed as you can. Bikes, landspeeders, assault squads (maybe). They are primarily support units, however against a strong shooty weak close combat army like IG, you may find that the rest of your army is actually best just supporting these units.
 

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I play Imperial Guard and my most common opponents are Space Marines. Whirlwinds are pretty deadly, but only against foot troops. Use them to take out heavy weapons teams or veterans or command squads. Terminators are chancey - my friends who play Space Marines generally don't use them due to the abundance of plasma I generally take to the field. Assault squads (especially with a chaplain) are very effective against me, as are bikes. Landspeeders are pretty good - especially with multi-meltas as when following in support of a more generally dangerous unit (such as an assault squad) they get ignored and can roast a tank (and will generally succeed in doing so.) Sniping scouts haven't worked well, but who knows. Holding your ground, or doing anything that doesn't involve closing the gap between your armies as quickly as possible, generally ends in defeat against the Guard. Move to around 12", so either you can annihilate squads with bolter rapid fire, or ideally, move in to assault where you cannot be shot.
 

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Just note that whirwinds always hit on back armour so you will normaly need a 5 to glance and if you take castilian missles i think if you triger a mine you take a str 6 hit on your back armour so they can be used on tanks but much more effective for taking out infantry. Also if you use whirlwinds take vengence missles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
What kind of army does he like to field, do you know? Just curious, as holding your ground against a good IG army is kinda like deliberately losing, more often than not.

Whirlwinds are a great choice, but they wont be able to even glance most IG tanks, so you would want to target the ground pounders.

Terminators can be alright, just beware of massed plasma - and do NOT deepstrike them near his lines, it will be a complete waste of an expensive unit if your opponent knows what he is doing. Hmm...I suppose you can do this, just make sure that they are not unsupported - your idea of taking bikes is prime.

The bikes are good for several reasons - you can close in fast (incredibly important VS guard), you can give the sergeant a teleport homer for your terminators, and yes, they can be good with meltas to take out tanks. Just make sure you keep them hidden as they approach, or with their lack of numbers they will be toasted out in the open, turbo boost save or not.

In fact, my advice (if you are really tailoring your army vs IG), is to take as much speed as you can. Bikes, landspeeders, assault squads (maybe). They are primarily support units, however against a strong shooty weak close combat army like IG, you may find that the rest of your army is actually best just supporting these units.
well he is convinced he will get in close and try his luck at close combat but he could be tryin to trick me its a tuff one like

all i know is we are going full out no holds bar on troops so he is gunna out number me by far so i thought holding a line and hitting from a distance till his troops are dwindled dwn thn get in with some close combat shooting and hand to hand like

thx i liked the bike idea i was planning one land speeeder to go round one way and the bikes the other way to try and make him pick which to follow :)
 

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Just note that whirwinds always hit on back armour so you will normaly need a 5 to glance and if you take castilian missles i think if you triger a mine you take a str 6 hit on your back armour so they can be used on tanks but much more effective for taking out infantry. Also if you use whirlwinds take vengence missles.
Where did you get the idea that whirlwinds always hit on rear armour? Did I miss the memo?

Sure, castellan minefields count the hit against rear armour when something drives over it, but not the normal missile. It simply counts as ordinance, which when hits against a vehicle always counts against the closest side.

- Unless you miss, in which case the hit is counted against the closest side of the tank to the blast marker centre hole. And the strength of the shot is halved.

Its all there, main rule book, page 65 (I think). There's a diagram and everything. :)

Hope that clears up some things...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
you seem to know wat your on about and you said:
The bikes are good for several reasons - you can close in fast (incredibly important VS guard), you can give the sergeant a teleport homer for your terminators, and yes, they can be good with meltas to take out tanks. Just make sure you keep them hidden as they approach, or with their lack of numbers they will be toasted out in the open, turbo boost save or not.

In fact, my advice (if you are really tailoring your army vs IG), is to take as much speed as you can. Bikes, landspeeders, assault squads (maybe). They are primarily support units, however against a strong shooty weak close combat army like IG, you may find that the rest of your army is actually best just supporting these units.
well whaat if i get 2 drop pods in to fall behind enemy lines?? cant get much faster thn that haha if yh what would be best to drop??
 

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Veteran, command, or Terminator squads.
Note that Termies are not worth it in the 1st place so ignore them.
More prudish ideas include flaming asscans (Dreadnoughts with flamers) and barenaked empty scout squads.
If you do anything other than pure short range mobile blasty or Dreads you will be wasting points with Drop pods.
I believe ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar has the Drop pod tactica linked in his sig.

Bikers are the ake s against IG. Increased Toughness, fast moving, and shooty as hell.
Try this on for size:
Bike squad
Sergeant with 2 lightning claws & T Hon
2 bikers with Plasma guns
2 unupgraded bikers
1 attack biker with a Heavy Bolter
275pts
Deals out 12 bolter shots, 3 heavy bolter shots, and 4 plasma shots per turn at 12", 6B 3HB 2P at 24", and 3HB at 36". It'll move around 12" per turn and still unleash this arsenal, or move at least 18" away from point a and gain 3+ invulnerables.
Even in close combat, you'll not go wrong. With 11 normal Space marine attacks and 4 Space Marine lightning claw attacks against T3 on the charge, you win the prize.

Even scout bikers, with a Powerfist\\Power weapon and full size can do a lot of damage. It's the mobility and mobile firepower on infantry that makes them stick.
Also take the trais that lets you take Bikers as troops. If you have no limit to troops, Bikers will rule the base, and you may have the Tactical squads also if you want.
Though Scouts with Bolters and a Heavy Bolter will do good as a Troops choice if you want it. Think about it, right away you're shredding them down, each Scout team 3.19 guardsmen on 5 men once within 12", 7.63 on full size. That's enough to annex a regiment easily if you take around 30 scout teams, raised slightly if you take a Plasma pistol or something burny on your sergeant.
5 men with HB - 70pts, 3.19 kills
5 men with HB & PP - 93pts, 3.45 kills
10 men with HB -
135pts, 7.63 kills
10 men with HB & PP - 158pts, 7.99 kills

These are my suggestions, use them or don't.
 

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Set Sail and Conquer!
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you seem to know wat your on about and you said:


well whaat if i get 2 drop pods in to fall behind enemy lines?? cant get much faster thn that haha if yh what would be best to drop??

I really like drop pods, but mainly for their 'awesomeness' factor, rather than their effectiveness. The problem with drop pods is thier unreliability, as in, you cannot be sure what turn they will rock up on, and they (and the unit inside) might end up isolated from the rest of your army with a bad scatter roll. And isolated units vs IG should almost always be considered a write off, if they are near the main IG line.

Space marines need to concentrate their numbers when fighting IG, like smashing up one side of the board only, so that you can have equal numbers of IG vs Marines, which is where the Marines superior stat lines come into play. Its a bad idea to spread yourselves out too much. Bikes and landspeeders can easily achieve this, wheras drop pods might be able to achieve this. That said, I do have 2 drop pods in my current Imperial Fists army list.

Bikers are the ake s against IG. Increased Toughness, fast moving, and shooty as hell.
Try this on for size:
Bike squad
Sergeant with 2 lightning claws & T Hon
2 bikers with Plasma guns
2 unupgraded bikers
1 attack biker with a Heavy Bolter
275pts
Deals out 12 bolter shots, 3 heavy bolter shots, and 4 plasma shots per turn at 12", 6B 3HB 2P at 24", and 3HB at 36". It'll move around 12" per turn and still unleash this arsenal, or move at least 18" away from point a and gain 3+ invulnerables.
Even in close combat, you'll not go wrong. With 11 normal Space marine attacks and 4 Space Marine lightning claw attacks against T3 on the charge, you win the prize.

Even scout bikers, with a Powerfist\\Power weapon and full size can do a lot of damage. It's the mobility and mobile firepower on infantry that makes them stick.
Also take the trais that lets you take Bikers as troops. If you have no limit to troops, Bikers will rule the base, and you may have the Tactical squads also if you want.
Though Scouts with Bolters and a Heavy Bolter will do good as a Troops choice if you want it. Think about it, right away you're shredding them down, each Scout team 3.19 guardsmen on 5 men once within 12", 7.63 on full size. That's enough to annex a regiment easily if you take around 30 scout teams, raised slightly if you take a Plasma pistol or something burny on your sergeant.
5 men with HB - 70pts, 3.19 kills
5 men with HB & PP - 93pts, 3.45 kills
10 men with HB -
135pts, 7.63 kills
10 men with HB & PP - 158pts, 7.99 kills

These are my suggestions, use them or don't.
I'm not so sure about that bike squad you mentioned - it seems like a little bit of overkill to me. For the points value you have listed, you can get 3 to 4 tooled up IG infantry squads, and I know where i'd put my money. Mainly because the bike squad can only kill max 1 squad a turn, and the game is all about scoring units.

Also, on the charge, there is a real risk you might actually complelely wipe out any guard squad you charge - this is a BAD thing. If I were the guard player, all my units would be more than 6" apart near combat, meaning you cannot consolidate into another squad, and your bikes would be toast on the following turn. Its much better to almost kill a squad, and then finish the job in your opponents turn, that way you cannot get shot in the process.

Dont get me wrong, as you can tell I love bike squads, I just also believe in the minimum equipment required for the job. So I'd probably get rid of the attack bike (you want to hide on the approach so the extra range is wasted), also plasmas are a complete waste against IG - take flamers instead, if you have to - (a boltgun kills them on a 3+, why pay extra for 2+ and a chance to kill yourself), and I wouldn't bother with the lightning claws either. Maybe take a powersword, if you have to, and meltabombs for the odd leman russ. Otherwise, it all seems like overkill, in my book. Not to be too picky, sorry if it comes out that way - this squad would be great against other marines, but against IG those overspent points could cost the game.

I do like the idea of scout bikers, just beware of heavy bolters!
 

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By the way, since the whirlwind missiles are ordinance, wouldn't they roll 2 dice for armor penetration?

Cheers8Y
 

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Set Sail and Conquer!
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By the way, since the whirlwind missiles are ordinance, wouldn't they roll 2 dice for armor penetration?

Cheers8Y
Yeah, but you don't add them together - you merely pick the highest! This is still useful, but there is a massive difference between the two.

A whirlwind cannot even glance armour 12 or higher. It cannot be done.

Edit: Well, a minefield might be able too, but thats not what we are really discussing here...


Whirlwinds are NOT good anti-armour weapons! Read the rules properly, people :)
 

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Against the guard? Well if you are no longer going Ultra (BOO! HISS!) You might want to take the trait, see, but don't be seen. This'll allow you're forces to infiltrate (For a the small small cost of 3 points per model). this can be a particularly effective trait for marines. At 12 to 18 inches you might even be able to slug it out under fire and still have enough punch to break his lines.

Or you could take (For an asymetrical marine army) Be as Swift as the Wind and take a biker army. Turbo charge them all turn 1 and boom, you're army is sitting up there with toughness 5 and 3+ invul. He'll kill relatively few, and then turn 2, you are punching your way through his army. Just remember to take meltas for tanks. This'd probably be the most effective against guard. You could even turbo behind cover, and then pop out, since to have 12 inch move. However this is also a highly asymetrical army, and if you haven't started building this already, probably going to cost you a little extra. Oh and you are going to have relatively few bodies, so while it'll eat guard (Their weapons lack the strength to kill in mass and their close combat can't even touch you since every basic man is wounding on a SIX.), it'll struggle against a whole lot of other things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
ok so im getting the opinion that speed is the way to beat IG
BUT
my space marines have a thing for flame throwes whats the best way for me to incorparate as many flames throwers as i can???

also
im thinkin of ordering parts and creating a "dragon tank" main weapons = flame throwers dought any1 will ever let me play it though :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Against the guard? Well if you are no longer going Ultra (BOO! HISS!)
sorry man dont get me wrong ultras rule ! my new chapter is a second founding from the ultras the back story covers how and why we had tobr created away from the ultras.
 

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Set Sail and Conquer!
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ok so im getting the opinion that speed is the way to beat IG
BUT
my space marines have a thing for flame throwes whats the best way for me to incorparate as many flames throwers as i can???

also
im thinkin of ordering parts and creating a "dragon tank" main weapons = flame throwers dought any1 will ever let me play it though :)
Bikes with flamers, landspeeders with heavy flamers, drop podding dreadnoughts with heavy flamers, with these options you can combine the best of both worlds - speed AND flaming, burning, screaming annhiliation :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Bikes with flamers, landspeeders with heavy flamers, drop podding dreadnoughts with heavy flamers, with these options you can combine the best of both worlds - speed AND flaming, burning, screaming annhiliation :)

I like that idea!!! just been down games workshop and got myself 1 bike squad :p

speed & fire a deadly combination ;)
 

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I'm pretty sure what was meant was this (link) type of bike. Sounds like you just bought the normal bike squad right?

 

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do i just simply glue some meltas onto the side of the bike to represent im going to use them??? sorry if that seems like a stupid question XD
No honest questions are ever stupid mate! :)

But yeah, I did just mean have a marine or two holding a meltagun in one hand and steering with the other! It does mean you have to choose what to fire, the melta or the twin linked bolters, but hey, thats not really going to be much of a problem most times, is it? :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
No honest questions are ever stupid mate! :)

But yeah, I did just mean have a marine or two holding a meltagun in one hand and steering with the other! It does mean you have to choose what to fire, the melta or the twin linked bolters, but hey, thats not really going to be much of a problem most times, is it? :)
so thats a yes then? lol

and i think i will go buy a attack bike squad as well then to strengthen the fast attack up :)
 
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