[Spray_Jacket]

Hi all,

I'm relatively new to the hobby (got BFSP and ~500pts of WE from way back) and im trying to decide what army to collect. I really like painting so looks are important to me, below are the five armies i like. I dont want to collect a force that people hate playing so if any of these armies are generally not fun to play against could you let me know?

Orcs and Goblins
everyone likes O&G, the only thing i dont like about this army is the cost.

High Elves
Do people dislike playing against HE since the new book came out?

Wood Elves
- it seems to me that to play effectively with WE you just need to annoy the crap outta your opponent for 6 turns, by shooting and generally avoiding combat. It sounds like they would be fun to play with but terrible to play against.

Empire
I really like empire's versatility and they seem really tactical (which is good). The cost of collecting empire puts me off a little though.

Dwarfs
- I have a feeling i wouldnt like the way these guys play on the field, to me it seems that getting completely outmanouvered wouldnt be very fun, also alot of people seem to complain about dwarfs who take too many warmachines to compensate?

Anyway just looking for opinions/reccomendations.
Cheers

 

[Sir Theobold the Lame]

Firstly let me say that some players will moan about ANY army- every army list has the potential to make good well balanced fun armies so dont let anybody else moaning put you off a particular choice.

I have both a dwarf and Empire army but not the others so i will limit my response to these guys.

Dwarfs- these are my first love- nice models, great varied list with a multidude of options and different type of lists (not just gunline by a long chalk), and very satisfying to paint (in my opinion) although there is an over dominance of armour and beards so if you dont like painting these then they are maybe not for you

Empire- Dont let the cost put you off- many of the chocies are plastics so its easy to get a fairly large force relatively inexpensively- particularly as the Empire has two battalion boxes which compliment each other well. Plus if you wanted to keep costs down things like an Empire knights force are perfectly feasible, fun to play and tactically challenging to play against (but not necessarily no fun) What i like about empire armies too are the multitude of modelling and painting options it allows- a fully painted empire army is a joy to behold.

 

[N1AK]

It's hard to say which force would be best to start as all the below armies have nice models, can look great painted and unless your power gaming balance pretty well.
If you like really going to town on detail then the Elven armies have good models for that, Empire can look fantastic with a strong theme painted over the force and both O&G and Dwarves although very different looking allow you a lot of freedom over painting models in different colours etc.

If I had to suggest one I would say make a small Dwarf army using what you have from Skull pass as a basis.
Bolt on the Battalion box (£50) and a Runesmith and you can make a decent 1500 point force.

Dwarfs
- I have a feeling i wouldnt like the way these guys play on the field, to me it seems that getting completely outmanouvered wouldnt be very fun, also alot of people seem to complain about dwarfs who take too many warmachines to compensate?

As long as you don't gunline they can be interesting to play, to me the important balance is having enough shooting to make an opponent want to engage in combat (the worst thing that can happen to Dwarves is to face an army that outshoots them and avoids combat).

Orcs and Goblins
everyone likes O&G, the only thing i dont like about this army is the cost.

Not a cheap army to collect but theirs plenty of plastics about for them. Personally I found painting up that many models daunting, but I am a sssslllllooooowwwww painter.

High Elves
Do people dislike playing against HE since the new book came out?

They probably dislike playing the Teclis, Dragon Mage and Banner of Sorcery build. But if you don't fixate on getting as many PD as possible they are a fun army to play against. Personally I hate to play as them, but thats because the dice gods frown upon me whenever I try (32 Elven bowmen and 2 Bolt Throwers, close range on empire spearmen, not one kill).

Wood Elves
- it seems to me that to play effectively with WE you just need to annoy the crap outta your opponent for 6 turns, by shooting and generally avoiding combat. It sounds like they would be fun to play with but terrible to play against.

Sadly as someone who got back into fantasy because of the new WE models I have to say I dislike the way this army plays. It is all to easy to build a force that wins exactly as you say by frustrating your opponent.

Empire
I really like empire's versatility and they seem really tactical (which is good). The cost of collecting empire puts me off a little though.

With the Army boxes and plastics they don't have to be that expensive. Can be very well themed and very fun to use. Even the moaned about units Stanks and War alters are fine, unless you fill your army with them.

 

[Phoenix]

Any army can be fun to play, so long as you dont concentrate solely on winning.

I always assmed Dwaves were slow, defensive, Warcmachine huggers, until i began chatting to Arklite, he runs an awesome list where his dwaves charge fast at the enemy, with WMs for just amlittle support.

Wood Elves are great, but the people who play the army tend to be my least favourite oponants. (Based on personal experiance, no offense intended) They are an army commonly picked up by people who are out to win, and their lists always develop to reflect that. However if you keep it a balanced army then people should be happy to play you.

High Elves, new book, small elite armies. I have no real experiance with or against them yet, but avoid using special characters (actually, that last bit is general, new special characters are broken)

Orcs + Goblins, mass horde, fun to play, offer great comedy value... at your expense. Not the most solid army, be prepared to loose quite a bit to decent opponants.

Empire, great all rounder. Being human i find their theme and look fairly dull, but they are very nice models. Avoid a gunline, keep it balanced, and they are a great army.

The best advice i can give is to choose an army and list whose models you like the most.

 

[jak3_dude]

K, let me say first off WElves arn't as "cheesy" as you make them out to be.

First off we have mad CC with dryads and wardancers, both of which can stand alone. 7 Wardancers = 3 dead Ushabti.

And then there's the Treeman. Perfectly legal, and is a pain to field against enemies with flamed attacks (read Lizardmen, any army with mages who have access to the lore of Fire, the not so used Chaos Dwarves...the list goes on...)

Like someone said earlier, people complain about everything and only see the negatives and ignore the rest of the facts.

WE armies have to be played competitively all the time because we are so vulnerable, have next to no rank and file units with static combat resolution and high toughness unit. If we played nice all the time, we'd always lose. And it's not like we don't lose even when we do play competitively.

I'm no expert, but if you like tactical armies, WE is your best bet because without massive amounts of tactics and battle planning, there's no way to win without MASSIVE amounts of luck and poor enemy generals...

had to get that off my chest...

 

[Spray_Jacket]

Thanks alot guys!

I think after much deliberating i will scratch off WE from my list, i just dont think i would enjoy playing them as much as other armies that get "stuck in" (but thanks for the advice anyway JAK3). Also i already had a go at collecting them so would like something fresh.

Empire are out too. I think your right deciever, despit the great models the army is perhaps a little "dull" especially in a fantasy setting. My girl friend keeps telling me that a fantasy army of men isnt really fantasy at all. I guess I'll have to agree. Plus these guys would have been the most expensive for me to collect anyway.

That leaves O&G, Dwarfs and HE.

Seeing as i already have BFSP and the dwarfs are pretty cheap and the army isnt too huge model wise i might use them to get me into the game. I think i will go with your suggestion H1AK and get the battalion box, not that the battalion box is as great a deal as alot of other boxes.
Do you know if the thunderers/warriors can be assembled as quarellers/longbeards from the battalion box?

Once I have a 1500pt Dwarf Force i will probably start on HE or O&G to keep things interesting.

Thanks again all!
Have an ale on me!

 

[InquisitorAffe]

I must protest the notion that O&G is too expensive! Skull Pass + the big army box + one additional regiment of boyz yields a quite competant 1500pt army. It is true the cost can skyrocket if you start adding squig herds/hoppers, savage orcs, and some other things, but you can definitely get into the army for around the same entry fee as any other force. Dwarves however are definitely the most dirt cheap if you buy Skull Pass bits on eBay!

 

[Seasonreaper]

I've always wanted to go for an O+G army myself, they just seem extremely fun to use, as long as you're not too bothered about winning all the time ;Y. Then again, I've never really liked the average humanoids such as elves or dwarfs, although my disliking to them isn't as high as it is to actual humans, so this is just down to my personal bias. Then again, it appears you have already decided to go for the stunties, so good luck and hope to see some of your models up on the site soon .

 

[Cyric the Mad]

First, I'm moving this to the Warhammer Armies section.

Second, Wood Elves are getting a bad rap in this thread. Non-WE players tend to think of what we do as running around the board avoiding combat all game. This is partly true - for the most part we're just better at moving strategically. This is how Wood Elves have to be played. Instead of having to deal with the strategic headaches of block unit maneuvering, we're forced to focus on how to mitigate the comparative ineffectiveness of our units in combat.

So what people are really getting frustrated about is that you make it difficult for them to get their uber-unit into combat - this isn't cheesy, it's smart. The simple fact is this is a common lament from those who want Wood Elves to just stand still and be beaten. Doing so will win you friends, but it's just not smart play.

 

[Phoenix]

Apologies, i didnt mean to come across anti-WE (i did say no offense meant lol) and the post before me is pretty accurate imho.

Anyway, what i meant was that the WE army is one which you are able to put together a very good army. Not neccesarily strong or powerfu, but one which is really hard to beat as it can deny so many victory points and wipe out the enemy all too easily with one or two units causing havoc.

Dryads are the prefect example, being Move Through Woods Skirms, they are easily able to pick and choose their fights, against vulnerable opponants. And while you are worrying about those, you have Waywatchers running around Killing Blowing your Characters, other dryads to watch out for, Terror causing Treemen who stand in a woood, invisible to the enemy, causing Terror tests and wiping units with strangleroot. And my least favourite of all to face, Wild Riders.I dont care what anyone says, these guys are hard!

The weakness of a WE army, as with all elves, is that they are ''fragile''. This is easy to exploit vs HE and DE though. The problem with WE is that its near impossible to catch them and take them out, or shoot them at range, as they have such a great time playing hide and seek. Therefore frustrating the opponant, and generally not such a fun game.

Its one of the reasons why they do so well at tournies, along with Thorek and his stunties (dont even get me started there... )

Just want to end by repeating, i mean no offense to any WE players or their armies, i merely tend no to enjoy gaming against experianced WE players. And i believe that circles me right back to the point made in the first post lol.

 

[Spray_Jacket]

season repaer, I know O&G can be cheap but only if you take certain units. Unfortunately alot of the ones that i like are expensive (Boar boys, savage orcs, hoppers). I dont like the idea of an army where im really restricted to what i buy because of the cost of the boxed sets. Not that i would rule them out black orcs, nortmal boys and ginats are cool too and not too dear.
Also if your looking for some models i've painted posted a few miners from BFSP in the painting forum, more to come soon!
Haha WE have taken a bit of a pummeling havent they? I do like them (i have a small force of em after all) i just think i would be happeir with a more combat oriented army.

 

[arisen devil]

Just want to end by repeating, i mean no offense to any WE players or their armies, i merely tend no to enjoy gaming against experianced WE players.

That's just because WE have the most unique playstyle in WHFB. They require different thinking and tactics when facing them. I have to agree it's a powerful list, but it's still balanced IMO. All elements need to work in perfect combination for it to work, that's why experienced players are such a pain to play against; they know the army inside out, and will keep the weaknesses covered (e.g. putting their treemen in a wood, screening wardancers with dryads,...)

Haha WE have taken a bit of a pummeling havent they? I do like them (i have a small force of em after all) i just think i would be happeir with a more combat oriented army.

That's how most people think of them, but it's a big misconception: WE really are a very close-combat oriented army. The shooting is only support for getting your fragile elves into combat unharmed
There are 2 "stronger" lists, and they're both combat oriented:
One uses many small units (mostly 3 units of 8 dryads, 2-3 units of 8 wardancers,a treeman for support, some wild riders as an extra hammer, glade guard for fire support, and some glade riders for baiting and fleeing).
The other uses mass mobility (everything in the army is either mounted on elven steeds, great eagles or warhawks, and waywatchers are used in bigger units).
It's just not regular combat like with other armies, you've got static CR, with wood elves, you need combined charges in the front and flank (or rear) to kill a ranked unit. You have to pick your combats really carefully, but WE slash through pretty much anything if set up correctly.
The only possibility for static CR are eternal guard, but using them requires much different tactics, and listbuilding around them.