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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, Im new to 40K, hell, Im new to tabeltop wargaming all together... I have AoBR which I'm currently painting, and havn't really had a proper game yet, but I have always been drawn to Witch Hunters as a main amy (have been looking at the GW website long befroe I bought AoBR)
and I really need help starting.
So what Im asking is; are Witch Hunters difficult to start/ play? I see all this 'faith' stuff, does it get confusing??
and after a bit of looking around I have decided on an army sort of like this=
Inquisitor lord and retiune (GW box set)
2 squads of SoB and 2 immolators to take them in.
2 penitent engines
seraphim squad
exorcist
I was thinking to slowly build up a force like that, but starting with the smaller force of the SoB Inquitor lord & retinue seraphims and one penitent engines and building up the the main army list from there
ANY help is appreciated, if Ive broken any GW or forum rules tell me please.
Thanks in advance
-Raze
 

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So what Im asking is; are Witch Hunters difficult to start/ play?
Yes, you are quite restricted on how you can play them competitively. On the up-side they are relatively simple to put a list together with.

Aside from unit limitations the main restriction you will find is range - 12" out is good, practically base to base is better, but close combat is mostly a holding action and anything over 12" is also a wash (other than the exorcist launcher).

WH armies are a learning experience for both sides - it'll take you a while to get used to but it's possible your opponents won't know what to expect either.


I see all this 'faith' stuff, does it get confusing??
More for your opponents, you just need to remember the activation timings.

Don't get too carried away with them - rending bolters are still only an extra couple of wounds most times, 3+ invs are still 3+ saves on T3 models. They can give you an edge at the right moment or blunt an opponent but you still need to have your ducks in a row - they won't win you anything by themselves.


Inquisitor lord and retiune (GW box set)
Inquisitors can get expensive quite quickly, most players run them with warriors for either heavy weapons or mech melta/flamer spam. The psyhood can be nice but the inquisitor itself can otherwise be something of a third wheel.

If you arn't intent on him for heavy weapons, psyhoods, or a landraider consider the canoness instead.

2 squads of SoB and 2 immolators to take them in.
The immolator kit is useful as you can easily switch between immo and rhino - significant here as sisters are minimum size 10 and immolators carry 6.
Always take a superior, two special weapons (not stormbolters), and don't weigh the squad down with too much baggage - grenades don't really help you and the imagifer is less useful than you might think.

2 penitent engines
Very fragile, though occasionally fun and a nice model.
Remember that you need a priest to use them, and that the priest must be attatched to a unit or IST. Priests are basically a disadvantage to any unit other than repentia - which is a shame as a celestian squad might actually be able to make use of him if they had any CC options to speak of.

seraphim squad
Very much a hit and run squad, and potentially very fast across the board. They burn through faith at an incredible rate though - they easily could use your listed force's entire faith pool in a single turn without trying.

Totally random, often very dangerous. Always useful to have a second backup to cover bad rolls.
Beware really heavy armour as the missiles have a hard time against it.


Good luck with your force. Try to keep your sisters together supporting one another and play them aggressively - pushing forwards. You may want to consider IST or inducted guard to hold objectives, are you using the book or the PDF?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
are you using the book or the PDF?
I have printed off the PDF to use, if that makes any difference... Is it different to the book?

And is there anywhere that explains faith? I can't seem to find a good explenation to read through and its extremely rare to find any videos on WH's at all...

The revised list then I suppose would be the canoness, who I have seen alot of looking around now actually

2 SoB squads (can one of them take the priest for the Penitent engines>)

Maybe remove one penitent engine, just have one and take dreadnaught instead so
one Penitent and one dread, is this possible?

The seraphim squad

and I seem to (except the exorcist) not have much power in this army, is it possible to Induct grey knights in here or would I have to get rid of the SoB's?

and of course the exorcist which I would add later on

Thanks for all the help so far, I really appreciate it
 

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I have printed off the PDF to use, if that makes any difference... Is it different to the book?
The book allows sisters to take a few 5th edition imperial guard units. It's more of an issue for DH players, but it does mean your only long range gun is the exorcist.

If your local players are ok with it then take a look at the imperial armour 2 pdf update from the forgeworld website. It updates rhino, chimera, and landraider costs and rules to 5th edition, though with the side effect of making immolators and exorcists more expensive through EA increases.

And is there anywhere that explains faith?
Is there anything specific about it you want to know? Calculating points, how/when to roll, strategies?

2 SoB squads (can one of them take the priest for the Penitent engines>)
Be warned that priests really hurt SoB squads. You can't use a transport (because you'll be 11 strong), you can't shoot further than 12 inches (always moving), you can't shoot from closer than 6" except with special weapons (not allowed to prevent yourself from charging) and your squad still won't be any good in combat.

Maybe remove one penitent engine, just have one and take dreadnaught instead so one Penitent and one dread, is this possible?
Sisters don't have dreads, nor access to them. They can't take GK dreads either.

and I seem to (except the exorcist) not have much power in this army
Can you be specific about what you are missing?
If you are expecting strong statlines, big guns, and neat toys - well that's not the sisters.

is it possible to Induct grey knights in here or would I have to get rid of the SoB's?
Yep, you can take a GK HQ, elite choice, fast attack, and two troop units. Until the new GK codex comes out at least.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Is there anything specific about it you want to know? Calculating points, how/when to roll, strategies?
Pretty much all of faith... Its all completely lost on me

Be warned that priests really hurt SoB squads. You can't use a transport (because you'll be 11 strong), you can't shoot further than 12 inches (always moving), you can't shoot from closer than 6" except with special weapons (not allowed to prevent yourself from charging) and your squad still won't be any good in combat.
Is there anywhere where I can put a priest? maybe bring in a squad of inquisitorial stormtroopers and put him in there, and then could I give them a las gun or something of the sort? so they can protect the priest and take heavy armour out from afar??

Can you be specific about what you are missing?
If you are expecting strong statlines, big guns, and neat toys - well that's not the sisters.
The lasgun above would solve this problem, I wasn't after big guns and toys as much as something just to give a little extra punch than bolter fire every now and then

Yep, you can take a GK HQ, elite choice, fast attack, and two troop units. Until the new GK codex comes out at least.
Maybe later on in the point levels I shall think about GK's are drop pods allowed in a WH army? as it would be helpful to drop some GK into close combat, just to give the rest of my army more time and a bit of aid

Thanks again, everything so far has been very helpful!!
 

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Pretty much all of faith... Its all completely lost on me
ok, faith 101.
You can think of faith as similar to psychic powers that can't be nullified. Individual characters trigger them with an Ld test while faithful squads will need to roll either over or under their squad size (equal to size always being a pass).

A few squads are always faithful (celestians and seraphim) while the others are only faithful while joined by a vet and/or an HQ. Adding another unit to the squad such as an inquisitor or allied GK hero renders them non-faithful.

Priests are treated like normal sisters - they don't grant the faithful status but do benefit from it. Repentia are never faithful.


The number of times you can attempt an act of faith is based on a pool of faith points - equal to one for every faithful unit or character in your army (or two points for a canoness). Adding a veteran to a faithful squad like celestians doesn't get you an extra point.
When a squad loses faithfulness (from the death of their vet, or the loss of an entire faithful unit) you gain an additional faith point to your pool (or two from a canoness).

It costs 1 faith point to attempt an act of faith regardless of whether you pass or fail. All powers except light of the emperor last for just one phase.

Faith power overview -

Hand of the Emperor
Mainly used to damage vehicle rear armour (since sisters don't normally have grenades) and to increase the strength of an eviscerator to 8 ( not 10 ).
You still use your normal init for combat resolution.

Divine Guidance
Test after you figure out how many hits you have scored, before wounds - so you don't waste a faith point if you fluffed your attacks. You'll only get a couple of AP1 hits on average and they can be stacked onto one model or away from key models due to the many non-AP1 hits you'll also score - as a result you'll typically need two squads working together to clear up a target.
Works well against high toughness / FnP units. Performance in close combat is typically very limited as sisters don't put out a lot of attacks - it's almost always better to shoot and receive a charge than charge yourself.

The Passion
Increases your init, which does count towards combat resolution. Often useful for a canoness with a blessed weapon to strike at I6 (remember to take frags). Beyond that it's somewhat situational.

Light of the Emperor
Can rally your squad even if they are being escorted off the board, and may have some situational use if you are facing a target that requires difficult moral tests to deal with (though the book of st. lucius takes care of most of them).
Remember that you don't get a faith point if your unit runs off the board - so a unit that rallies and then gets killed is ultimately no net loss to you.

Spirit of the Martyr
An inv save - doesn't replace your normal save (for weapons that ignore inv saves like psycannons). Popular with 2+ save canonesses and seraphim squads - remember that you need to roll at the start of the phase and that it can cost you 3 faith points a turn (their shooting phase, their assault phase, your assault phase).

Lets you run through battlecannons as if they were frag missiles or shrug off the attacks of a monstrous creature. But remember that sisters are only T3 and only smaller squads can use this - a decent round of small arms fire or elite close combat unit will still take you out.

Spirit of the Martyr is typically the power that makes seraphim squads expensive to run as they are essentially paying 1-3 faith points a turn for stormshields.


Is there anywhere where I can put a priest?
He's good with repentia, but repentia suck.
He's also good with zealots, but they are an old white dwarf unit (basically old pistol & cc guardsmen with a few scattered eviscerators).

Any other unit he gimps. His rules prevent the firing of rapid fire weapons from further than 12" out or closer than 6" in (if you are in charge range of anything you are not allowed to shoot rapid fire to prevent a charge).

so they can protect the priest and take heavy armour out from afar??
ISTs don't have any long range anti-tank weapons. I suppose if you keep them in their vehicle the priest shouldn't cause you too many problems, but if you are using them to hold an objective the righteous fury rule will drag them off it as soon as an enemy squad or vehicle gets within 6".

Maybe later on in the point levels I shall think about GK's are drop pods allowed in a WH army?
GKs don't have drop pods.
Their terminators and fast attack troops can deepstrike, but they are neither scoring nor accurate on the way down, and neither the WH nor DH books have functioning teleport homers or bonuses to reserves.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
faith 101.
Wow, just wow.. Thank you for all of that, It still looks confusing, but atleast now its a lot clearer
He's good with repentia, but repentia suck.
IT seems to me he just drags good units down and the only units he doesnt hinder are pretty terrible anyway... I don't know if its worth it just to field a penitent engine... there doesn't seem to be a way around the terible drawbacks... or enough good points to counter the bad :/
ISTs don't have any long range anti-tank weapons.
This is one of my main problems then, nothing except the exorcist seem to have anything any good for that little extra punch...

GKs don't have drop pods.
that seems to be those out of the window for now then...

right then, so ive got in mind

the canoness

2 SoB squads

The seraphim squad

the exorcist

and to fill the void of the penitent engine, how about an eversor assassin??

but maybe for that extra punch would Inquisitor lord karamazov on the throne of judgement be any good?? he seems to be quite powerful and daunting for anyone playing against him

Ill wrap this up shortly, Im deffiently getting more to grips with the witchhunters and you have given me much more help than I would have expected of anyone, and it is greatly appreciated
 

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Wow, just wow.. Thank you for all of that, It still looks confusing, but atleast now its a lot clearer
If you have any more specific problems i'll try to clear them up.

IT seems to me he just drags good units down and the only units he doesnt hinder are pretty terrible anyway...
Sadly true. The celestians would be able to use him if they could take cc gear, but they can't - despite being cc oriented elites (daft I know)

I don't know if its worth it just to field a penitent engine...
Keep in mind that the penitent engine isn't exactly the greatest thing ever. You have no control over it at all - it runs where-ever your opponent directs it (closest unit) and has less armour than a rhino. Even if it makes combat you have to be careful of dreads and MCs ripping it a new one due to it's low init as WS.
Some days it'll do all right, it's holy rage surprising an opponent. Other days you'll get it close only to have it kill the models in charge range with it's compulsory shooting. It's a real shame since it's a nice model.

This is one of my main problems then, nothing except the exorcist seem to have anything any good for that little extra punch...
Welcome to the sisters of battle.
But seriously, you'll get outshot by tyranids and you are mediocre at best in cc. Lots and lots of short range shooting is where it's at.

If you find you can't live without a little more ranged firepower then your choices are between IA2 update autocannon chimeras and inducted imperial guard infantry platoons.
You can take landraiders for inquisitors, but you can't put any of your close combat units (repentia and arcos) into them... and technically they aren't an assault vehicle anyway.

how about an eversor assassin??
Well i've had some fun with them, though they are very much a 'cross your fingers and hope for the best' kind of unit. You need to make sure it doesn't get shot at - one marine combat squad with bolters will do him in - and be aware that even a smurf tac squad could dog pile him in close combat.

The callidus is easier to position - you are pretty much guaranteed to get your charge. Costs more and doesn't hit as hard as the eversor but you do get to pick your first target. It's worth noting that all assassins have suffered to pile in and targeting rule changes, they arn't what they used to be.
Also remember that the don't have frag grenades.

but maybe for that extra punch would Inquisitor lord karamazov on the throne of judgement be any good??
He's good in casual lists - alongside 9 penitent engines and hordes of zealots.
He doesn't really fit into a mechanised list because he can't keep up, something of a poor man's tzeentch prince. Worth a stab I suppose but better with infantry.


As a final remark - when you worry about lacking big cc units or firepower remember that sisters are a saturation force, and every 'big' unit represents a whole bunch of sisters you didn't take, a faith point you didn't generate.
A positive point to take would be this - i've played sisters for a few years now, against everything bar dark eldar and space wolves, both pure sisters mech and sister/ist/gk hybrid lists - and i've got the best record of my local group. They can hang in there pretty well and just eat away at an opponent a turn at a time, you just need to trust that there is more to a force than their stats and impressive toys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for all of the help, I have some Ideas in my mind, Bringing quite a few SoB in... and less of the major big units...

Thanks
-Raze
 

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Something else to keep in mind. A single exorcist will take the combined firepower of your opponents entire anti tank line. Especially if they've ever faced one before. One exorcist can wipe out entire nid warrior squads in a single salvo. (Instant death, no armor save, 18 wounds gone). As such a single model becomes the #1 threat on the table, and it will be dealt with swiftly.

It's usually best to take two if you can. You can use parts from whirlwinds to make them, all sorts of conversions. (Don't need to use GW's expensive model).

I find as a primary ork player, the best way to play sisters, is the exact same way you play orks. Get close, overwhelm the enemy with numbers, don't CC something that will easily obliterate you. (ie, gene stealers). When in doubt, more battle sisters. After my last few battles, I'm thinking 40-50 would work better :).
 

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I know this thread is getting stale, but I just wanted to tell you "Welcome to Warhammer 40k, table top gaming, and especially to Witch Hunters/Sisters of Battle."

40k takes some time to learn, and so does every codex. If you started with an experienced friend, that's good. If not, there are some really nice people at the game stores that are gonna give you some time and patience to learn the game. Some people will be jerks about it, but that's life.

People will know you're green and that you'll make mistakes. Just try to learn something new every week (or however often you play) about the game rules and your own codex. Most people don't know WH/Sisters off the top of their head, so it's up to you to learn your army well. Remember to read and reread the rulebook and your codex (I still read a few pages everyday even after 5 months of playing - I've been through it all 3-4 times.)

Sisters aren't hard to play at all. You'll certainly have a rocky start, but mostly because you're new to the game.

Faith is just a matter of: What ability do you want? When can you use it? Do you need greater or less than squad size?

And I don't think anyone mentioned the Holy Trinity: Bolter, Flamer, Melta. For us Sisters players, it's spiritual. It's our mantra. And it's exactly how you have to think to win games.

You'll love it. It's a way of life.
 

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Any advice on nids? I've yet to come close to beating them. Maybe 75% of the way. The sisters have to get within 12 to really dish out the damage, and they can't deal 15+ Wounds in a single firing round, even with multiple squads concentrating on one group. Bolters are still only str 4...so basically hitting on 3's, and wounding on 4's. Then warriors have 3W's, and armor saves.

It only takes one or two remaining nid creatures to completely obliterate the sisters in the ensuing combat round. Not to mention ravengers with their 12" assault range spell instant doom.
 

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Any advice on nids? I've yet to come close to beating them. Maybe 75% of the way. The sisters have to get within 12 to really dish out the damage, and they can't deal 15+ Wounds in a single firing round, even with multiple squads concentrating on one group. Bolters are still only str 4...so basically hitting on 3's, and wounding on 4's. Then warriors have 3W's, and armor saves.

It only takes one or two remaining nid creatures to completely obliterate the sisters in the ensuing combat round. Not to mention ravengers with their 12" assault range spell instant doom.


It sounds like most of your problems stem from being unfamiliar with some key rules and equipment. Try this:

Heavy flamers destroy gaunts with gusto. You automatically hit and it has a better AP value than Nid armor. You're talking massive death when you add bolter shots and a second special weapon (flamer for nids.) If you run an Immolator and you can keep it moving >6", gaunts and genestealrs are gonna have a really hard time taking it out and you can TL-HFlame them to death. Don't forget you can tank shock them to gather them all in a group and them flame them with the unit inside.

Exorcists instakill Warriors (Strength greater than or equal to twice the Toughness, remember?), no armor saves (AP value), all wounds gone. A salvo from one Exorcist can kill a unit of Warriors, and if not two will do the trick.

The big monsters need an Exorcist salvo, some meltas and a Divine Guidance prayer, but in a good combined fire, won't last a single turn.

Remember to set up in the center of your deployment to avoid being outflanked by Genestealers. Anything deepsriking can't assault that turn, so free shots.

Heavy bolters are great with Nids too. Try a Retributor squad with HBs.

Goodluck.
 

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ok just played a 1600 pt tourney and one of my opponents played nids. Needless to say I squished him pretty bad. he set up with two genestealers (one on each flank) and ravengers coming at my middle with a tyrant behind them. Guards in the back provided fire for his advance and a group of warriors sat on his objective. only thing he had in reserve was a trygon. I had a squad of rets, inq Lord with 2x heavy bolters and plasma cannon, 2x exorcists, immolator with TL HB and blessed ammunition, a squad of inferno pistol seraphim, canoness with IP and BW, and finally two troops, one in one out of rhino.

He infiltrated his genestealers just at the 18" from my flanks but failed to make his run distance he needed to reach assault so I opened up on both flanks with all my firepower and dropped one flank to just the broodlord. the other flank got hit hard as well but not as much. exorcists focused on tyrant and killed it first turn. he assaulted my canoness with the broodlord and was tied up for 3 turns before he barely managed to scrap out a kill before getting squished himself from my exorcist. I wiped out all the genestealers before they made it into close combat and turned my attention to the ravengers who were just about to be in assault range. that turn my seraphim deepstriked in and misplaced on the mishap table. he put them infront of the ravengers with the intent of charging them but i brought the rhino troops over, unloaded then proceeded to empty clip after clip into them finishing them off. his trygon came in and got burst open by focused fire from both exorcists. at this point all he has is his warriors, the guards, and two zoanthrope that i forgot to mention. the exorcists took out the zoanthrope pretty well with the assistance of the immolator. the immolator moved to get an angle on the hiding guards and opened up on them. the exorcist in range also opened up while the other exorcist fired at the warriors pasting a few. in the end I won with 2 objectives to his 1 out of 4 and he only had a single guard and a single warrior left on the field while i only lost the rhino from guard fire and the canoness from CC with the broodlord.
 

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I think I may just be playing a different caliber nid player then you guys. Sure the exorcists are great, but not when his whole army has cover saves. (5+ guy, with flying 4+ cover) On average, the exorcists get a single shot off, before they are destroyed by rear/side armor death leapers/lichtors/doom blast template.

The Ymgarl gene stealers have fleet, and can assault the same turn they arrive, generally resulting in multiple squads falling.

Spore podded warriors, deploy in a circle around the pod, giving the entire group a 4+ cover save, helping to reduce the effects of AP1 weaponry. (instant death is still nice). Even with 40 sisters firing at a warrior group, I can't do enough wounds to wipe them out in a single turn. (faith or no faith).

Ravengers themselves are nasty, with a 19-24 inch assault range.

I tried hvy flamer immolators, but ended up dropping them completely. They seemed to be little more then fire magnets. "Whats that?" "That's a immolator" "Whats it got?" "A twin linked heavy flamer?" "Oh ok, I'm shooting at it. Whats the front armor?....11, Ok I pen, weapon destroyed...."
I actually dropped the heavy flamers, because almost the entire nid army is multi-wound. Very little gaunts, and only a single group of gargoyles for initial cover. (gargoyles get a 5+ from the Nid guy, and they give everything behind them a 4+ save)
 

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Hey no harm. I don't take forum posts that seriously, as it's waaaaaay too easy to take things out of context, since there isn't any sarcasm detectors, yadda yadda yadda :).

Here's the list. I've played sisters about 10 times now, about 30 or so games under my belt (i play orks and sisters). [1500 points, give or take 10 or so]

HQ:
Canoness
Blessed Weapon, Jet Pack, Inferno Pistol, Book, and Cloak. Sometimes I substitute the
BW for an evicerator, if I'm playing IG or SM. Vs nids, she generally hunts trygons. (I kid you not).

Heavy:
2x exorcists
1x retributors with 4 hvy bolter. (sometimes I just run 3 exorcists) I also tried the walkers...which did a heck of a lot of damage, but I doubt that will ever happen again, now that everyone knows they get d6+1 attack on a charge!

Troops:
4x Groups of...
9 sisters + 1 VSS
2x melta, Bolter/Book on VSS
Rhino has Dozer/Armor and Smoke

I used the serpham a few times...but in their smallest group, they tend to get wiped pretty fast unless i burn through a ridiculous amount of faith. Running them in a larger group is incredibly expensive!
 

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lol ya penitent engines and arcos are great for uses against an opponent who doesnt knowwhat they are. fought a tau using both in the same list and just walked through his line cutting things apart cause he focus fired on my exorcists. now i dont think it would work very well.
 

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It seems your biggest problem is with the 5+ guys (venomthropes). If he is running them without tyranid primes attached remember that they are only t4 and hence can be id by exos. Kill those first.

If he is smart enough to put them in squads with tyranid primes, to make them average t5 then hit them with spam bolter/h bolter fire until one of them dies and then exo them.

Doesn't sound like he has too much nasty for your mechanised force though... and no tervigons which can be a pain in the arse for sisters to kill (hard to get in melta range with a wall of gaunts in from of them)

In terms of your troops, why have you gone so melta heavy? Sure its good vs mech or nidzilla but he seems to be running a medium size list, hit him with volume of fire and concentrate your attacks. If you want to run melta, why not 5 dominions in an Immo or 5 IST in a rhino. I generally only give flamer/heavy flamer to my girls so the bolter shots are not wasted.

If you post the full list he is using I could better devise a plan for you, but killing those venomthropes seems fairly key, and easy given their height and low t :)
 

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His list is incredibly dynamic, so it's a bit difficult to post. We play weekly (eldar, IG, tau, orks, SM, Sisters, Nids, BA, Necrons, and soon daemons and space wolves). And since its generally the same crew, we try to come up with different lists all the time, to see how things work together, and to provide variety.

So far the nids are the only things I'm having trouble handling. The sisters creamed IG and SM. Exorcists are no joke! I blew up a land raider on turn 1. Rolled a 6 for pen, then rolled a 6 for damage!(6-2 glance =4 +1 for AP1 = 5 destroyed!) WTF's flew across the table at that one :).

Generally his list consists of a large number of multi-wound, T4 creatures. Such as the doom of malathai, nid warriors. venomthropes, ravengers. There is usually then some gargoyles, a trygon or two, and genestealers thrown in for good measure.

As such, the melta is there not so much for anti tank work, as it is for the str 8 instant killing of T4 creatures. I found that generally, the flamers would put a few wounds on the warriors..but each one has 3, and when he's got half a dozen or more, that is a !$()&! ton of wounds, which the bolter fire is ineffective at wearing down. Fire 4 melta's into the warriors though (from two groups of sisters), and they just insta pop (no armor save either), and then the few remaining can be cut down by the bolter fire.

Str 8 weapons I've found are of critical use. As such, even my ork army lists usually throw out an absolutely absurd amount of str 8 shots (avg of 15 a turn).
 
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