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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I got to thinking reading about lists and what's good and isn't. what would you like to see to make us competitive again, at least in line with the 6th ed codices? And what do you think we will realistically get? Personally we need something akin to 'battle focus' that the Eldar got, but with our assault units, the ability to run and charge the same turn would be an asset. But it won't happen, that would make us a decent assault army and as we all know that's not where 6th is going. Secondly Shadow in the Warp, what we need is an 18" bubble of 3d6 ld drop the lowest for enemy psykers, what will happen imho is that we'll get something similar to the nerf the Eldar got; most likely we'll either keep the 12" bubble but it will become a 5+ Deny the Witch on any unit within that bubble, or it will be a 1 off board wide 2+ deny the witch. Anti flyer; this is going to be the important one, do we get anything that will take down enemy flyers? I'd like to see Gargoyles given skyfire as they are more or less flyers themselves in the fluff. or at least make an anti flyer version of carnifexes or Biovores. I think they will probably do something that forces us to buy new kits for anti air. Likely they'll release some sort of FMC or a Bio Flyer. So what you guys think? Where will our dex go when we do finally get a new one? BTW sorry for lack of paragraphs, for some reason LO isn't letting me [enter] key to a new line. :(
 

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- How about some more variety. A tervimom is a must have in all armies, I'd like to have other options.

- Genestealers need grenades, otherwise infiltrate, get shot at, take overwatch up the ***, then watch while the enemy strikes first since they waited in cover. At least give them some grenades.

- The biovore needs to go back to having multiple blasts, one for tanks and another for troops.

- Pyrovore is so pretty, make him t6 maybe idk, just make him competitive. Maybe give him torrent?

- Hive guards being able to deep strike? Its not guna happen but it would be broken.

- lictors and venomthropes are also cool but useless models. Maybe give the venomthrope stealth or shroud for surrounding allies so it can stack with ruin saves etc.. Lictors I really dont know, but do something with them too.

- Trygon is completely outclassed. Pretty much any monster 1v1 will kill him ie. daemon prince, nemesis dreadknight

- old one eye should be a carnifex upgrade in a brood and cheaper. Carnifexes should also have 2+ saves. Fluff wise they're supposed to be tanks. And T FEX is wayyy to expensive. He doesnt need a 2+ save...Trade that in for a better gun please and less points. His gun basically doesnt hurt tanks, itl take out a hull point maybe, and against troops its ap4... i mean c'mon, what is that gun good for?

- I love swarmlord, not really sure what to do with him. He'l probably get badly nerfed unfortunately even though hes already too slow to do anything. Although a swarmlord with wings would excite me........

- Our monsters need some sort of invul save, maybe synapse can give it to them. My buddy had an idea that each synapse creature puts out a certain amount of synapse points which u can use during the game to upgrade units such as, eternal warrior, FNP, invul save.. etc...

-WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO EVOLVE DURING THE GAME. THE ENTIRE POINT OF TYRANIDS IS THEY QUICKLY ADAPT! WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO RAPIDLY CHANGE STRATEGY DURING THE GAME! THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TO ME.
 

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I am expecting good things from the new dex going off what has come so far.
I hope units will gain eternal warrior again when within synapse, so i can live my dream of an effective warrior army.

Things i believe will happen-
Lower points across the board
Army wide rules to bring a better synergy to the bugs.
Hive tyrants will be brutal combat and psychic monsters.
Warrior Prime will be upgrade to warrior brood.
Tyrannofex will receive a shooting buff with additional rules to co-inside with fluff.
Warriors reduced to 2 wounds, maybe 3+ save.
New flying monstrous creature.
Gene stealer cult supplement.
 

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Not a nid player but we have a regular nid player in our group so I'm going to chuck in my opinion.

What I expect will happen is that Shadow of the warp will become a deny the witch when within range, if Eldar lost their multiple dice psyker defence I doubt Nids will keep theirs. Librarions hoods now give a deny the witch save as well so I think all psychic defences will follow this route.
You will gain some sort of anti flyer ability, not sure if it will be a flyer in of itself or if it will be a shooting up grade but you guys will get something. Your troops will more than likely get cheaper as well, unless they get a big buff like Eldar guardians did they will get cheaper. Which means that you could probably afford to take overwatch and a round of shooting on them.
 

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I think we will see several changes that make the models we have obsolete forcing us to buy or remodel most of our guys to keep a competitive army list.

HQ
Winged Tyrant will continue to be a mainstay, but will likely be optimally armed with venom cannon and scything talons. (Venom cannon no longer a blast template, Devourers down to strength 5)

Swarm Lord will continue to be sweet, but very pricey.

Tervigon, will no longer be able to be fielded as troops...For each unit of termagents you may take one as an Elite.

Elites
Zoans, will lose Lance on warp blast, and decrease a few points.

Hiveguard will stay mostly as they are.

Pryovore will become our new go to Elite choice: Toughness 5, 3 wounds, can deep-strike via burrowing and his template weapon will be AP3 and add 2d6 for armor Penetration rolls.

Lictors will make a strong comeback and be able to assault from their hidden positions once again (kick Ymgarl stealers out of the dex).

Venomthropes will pick up some cool assault power that puts down a large blast on them instead of normal attacks. Will be poisonous 2+, but will not affect friendly models, attacking at initiative 10, might get one more attack at a low initiative. Continues to be overlooked unless someone wants to play for the cool factor.

Troops
Genestealers: Point decrease, Ymgarl stealers will be an upgrade for the unit which gives them scout, outflank or deep-strike. Will become our standard shock troops.

Warriors:Will want to get into hand to hand with rending claws and scything talons...Take those guys off these guys.

Gaunts:Devil gaunts will be the only playable shooty gaunt. Stealers priced aggressively enough that gaunt masses will not make much sense.

Fast Attack
Raveners:These guys are going to get a price cut and be sweet, They will be cut low enough that you will want to fill them out as much as possible.

Harpy:The only problem with filling out on Raveners is that it will take up spaces that could be Harpies--Our best way to kill flyers at a reasonable price because venom cannon can shoot into the sky now.

Gargoyles:Will still be cute, but not cheap enough to compare with raveners. And your full load of stealers will mean you don't likely need the extra bodies.

Heavy Support
A deep striking Trygon Prime will almost be a must to get synapse ahead of you swarm, but don't let the fool you he will be good for other reasons as well. Mawloc still a gimmick.

Tyrannofex will come down in points and be our only legitimate way to crack tough skinned armor now that zoans don't have lance.

Carnifex will be too slow for its damage output and just not worth taking over faster raveners, or more plentiful stealers.

Biovores will continue to be solid performers but with all of our unit getting into their lines we wont want to take them.

Army Flaws
We will be able to tear up anything on the ground, but we are going to struggle to get things our of vehicles-especially flying ones which will leave us out in the cold against armies with flying transports if they can kill our harpies and over priced tyrants. But if we get lucky and get some guys in our jaws it will be a blood bath.

What do I want to happen
Not that! Something playable and balanced, but not units that are balanced...I want strong assaulters and strong shooters, but not a Flyrant who just does both. I want synapse to matter, and not to get a bonus for getting out from under it. In fact I think Synapse would be best if units under synapse received some kind of non-leadership bonus and units outside of it appear confused with decreased WS. However I do want to be able to play in a group game and bring Nids without fear of having everyone team up on my for round one so that I don't get to play the rest of the game because my Synapse is gone.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am expecting good things from the new dex going off what has come so far.
I hope units will gain eternal warrior again when within synapse, so i can live my dream of an effective warrior army.
I'd rather they killed eternal warrior off from all armies. It doesn't really make sense and just makes people like Lysander almost impossible to kill. I'd far rather maybe we get furious charge and/or BS buff in synapse range, or better yet, 4+ deny the witch. Synapse needs to be made a positive thing, not negative as it is at the moment.
I'd certainly agree on stealers, some kind of ability that is 'like' assault grenades with the same effect when in CC. Maybe flesh hook style? Carnifexes seriously need a buff, they used to be good, so maybe some sort of cannon similar to that of the Tyrannofex now, and buff his to AP1 or 2 and single shot. I know that we have to take a nerf for each buff, so that's the nerf, it goes down to 1 shot, but gains AP1 would be okay with me.
 

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- Pyrovore is so pretty, make him t6 maybe idk, just make him competitive. Maybe give him torrent?

- venomthropes are also cool but useless models.

-WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO EVOLVE DURING THE GAME. THE ENTIRE POINT OF TYRANIDS IS THEY QUICKLY ADAPT! WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO RAPIDLY CHANGE STRATEGY DURING THE GAME! THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TO ME.
It is true the Pyrovore needs work, I have heard it may get skyfire and be totally redone, with a new gun etc.

Venomthropes are actually very good, one of our better units, the cover save they provide is very much the Tyranid synergy thing.

I like your idea about adaptation. However they will likely go with synergy and not a load of in-game upgrades that take alot of time to remember.

I think a good way to handle the Tyrannofex would be to keep the rupture can more of less as it is to provide tough, ranged, anti-tank. Make the acidspray better so it justifies the high points cost, this would make that option a good close range anti-infantry choice. The Fleshborer hive should be redone as some sort of skyfire weapon (with new range, strength etc). This would make the Tyrannofex a far better unit because it would provide anti-tank, anti-infantry or anti-air depending on how we equip it.

They really need to give all three versions of the spore mines three sets of rules again. I have no idea what came over the designers to have one type of spore mine only (which has three types of models for it's three sets of original rules) but three sets of rules for the almost never seen thorax swarm, (which has no representation on any model in any way).
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I think Spore Mines just came into line with IG Mortars and frag missiles and such. Mostly the mortars being that is what Biovores more or less are.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just reading a post about psykers and powers, what do you guys reckon we'll get on that front?
Do you think we'll be allowed to take a higher level for points like in C:CSM or C: DA? Or do you think it will remain the same: mastery level 1 with only the Swarmlord being a 2? Or do you think Swarmlord will become a 3 like the Farseer did for the Eldar?
 

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I think our hive tyrants will get big WS, BS, and I buffs to keep up with greater daemons and the avatar. Not necessarily that good but closer. The swarm lord will probably be 10's on all three though. I think we might see some T7 on a few bugs, maybe carnifex, tyranofex, or trygon prime.

Stealers need grenades, but probably won't get them. They'll probably get +3 to their run moves, which they don't need.

Points drop on stealers (unless they get nades) gargoyles, gaunts, lictors, carnifex, and tyranofex.

Points increase for raveners

Something gets sky fire or an ability to assault flyers.

Shadows gets nerfed to a deny buff.

The doom takes a severe beating from the nerf bat.

Basically my worst fear is that it's going to feel like all the other codices. Nothing unique and niddy.
 

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I think our hive tyrants will get big WS, BS, and I buffs to keep up with greater daemons and the avatar. Not necessarily that good but closer. The swarm lord will probably be 10's on all three though. I think we might see some T7 on a few bugs, maybe carnifex, tyranofex, or trygon prime.

Stealers need grenades, but probably won't get them. They'll probably get +3 to their run moves, which they don't need.

Points drop on stealers (unless they get nades) gargoyles, gaunts, lictors, carnifex, and tyranofex.

Points increase for raveners

Something gets sky fire or an ability to assault flyers.

Shadows gets nerfed to a deny buff.

The doom takes a severe beating from the nerf bat.

Basically my worst fear is that it's going to feel like all the other codices. Nothing unique and niddy.
Unfortunately I have the same gut feeling..
 

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Carnifex with wings! That would make me happy. Maybe drop the points also because right now its not useful. Anyone else scared they will mess up the Tervigon? I hope it does not go away I like it as a troop. It's unique.
 

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Give back the Genestealer Cults and I'm happy. :)
 

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-WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO EVOLVE DURING THE GAME. THE ENTIRE POINT OF TYRANIDS IS THEY QUICKLY ADAPT! WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO RAPIDLY CHANGE STRATEGY DURING THE GAME! THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TO ME.
man i played a guy who thought the same way a while back and we called him the prophecy (for reasons i wont go into) but his models would start the game with no upgrades and as the game went on he would add whatever suited the situation (and this was in the 3rd ed. codex of nids) in a 1200 point game he had 3 fully upgraded carnifexes, a fully upgraded hive tyrant with guard plus the rest of his list including warriors ect. im sure you dont mean this kind of evolution because that would be the fastest ****ing evolution in existance which not even tyranids can boast. : P

you know to be honest i dont think the nid codex needs that much to become streamlined with the new dexes, just a few reworks here and there. i think you guys have some of the most brutal deepstriking units in the entire game and one of the best shock troops (warriors and raveners). everyone talks about how shit pyrovores are but i rly dont think they are that bad of a choice, against things like tau and eldar S5 AP4 templates that can be put into a pod isnt a bad deal for clearing fire warriors or guardians on an aegis. granted i think they need a slight buff in their survivability and weapon but not huge buff somthing as small as ap 3 on their gun to make them better at dealing with any meq would be fine.

as far as psykers goes you guys got a huge buff in being able to roll from the great rulebook tables and since your only M level 1 you can more easily get things like terrify and dominate ect. zoanthropes are so versatile and can fulfill almost any psychic role you want them to (maledictions, blessings, and witchfires). biovores are good for the amount of blasts they lay down although new ammunition would be kinda cool (maybe a haywire shot for vehicles) i think they do their job pretty well now. flying tyrants are good as all of you know from experience playing them. hive guard are wonderful but have no way of getting close bar walking which is their downfall (i say make the gun longer range 30 inches maybe and lower the S by 1... making them lower range autocannons this will still make them good at killing light tanks but at a safer distance) having said that they are still really effective if you know how to position them correctly.

more or less goes for the rest of the army small tweaks are needed because as with all 5th ed codexs nids suffer from creep as well. nids are a tough army to play granted but when learned they can do a whole lot in the hands of an experienced player. i dont think you guys have it as bad as some of the other armies had it before they got their codex (daemons, dark angels, tau). and hey if you still hate your codex just go ahead and take a look at sisters of battle and the digital codex they got from GW... talk about shoving them under the rug. anyway i hope the new dex is enough to halt the endless complaints i hear at my local hobby shop about the nids, i have a feeling most nid players never rly got past their inability to deal with meta armies in 5th edition.
 
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