[Fizzics]

Personally I'd REALLY dislike that.

My personal preference would be:
The SoB in the correct slots as standard, except for troops.
The GK's in the correct slots as standard, except for troops. (Maybe a new addition)
Some DW in the correct slots, except for troops.
And each Ordo Millitant HQ unlock the respective troops.
A bunch of specialized/radical choices.
=I='s and IST as basic troops/elite/HQ (in each respective slot).
This would make for a pile of different and interesting/ nice lists...

lol wut?

what exactly is "the correct slots"

 

[Deadstar_MRC]

Hmm. I've been reading other people's posts but not really contributing at all. Mostly because I'm not all that sure what I'd like to see in an army.

The suggestions thus far are good ideas. Some Ordo Xenos stuff would be great. Radical/Puritan divisions and options would be fantastic. Being still able to run a pure Sisters/Knights army would also be a good move...

I wonder if something like this would work...

Inquisitorial Storm Troopers are a open to everyone troops choice. Maybe an IST heavy weapons team, too?

They could be upgraded with veteran skills depending on your HQ, or maybe just favoured enemy rules? Xenos = any xenos (too much, perhaps?) Witchhunters = psykers, Daemonhunters = Daemons...

Maybe different weapons options as well...

Having Deathwatch as an option could be interesting, too.

But I'm forgetting the Sisters! Really, I don't know what I'd like to see with them. I already like the minis. I already like the fluff. Sure, I know some units could be improved markedly, which could then make for some variety in a witch hunter's army. That would be nice, rather than having to see "If you're playing for fun, take whatever, but if you want to win you must take this..."

Meh. I try not to get too in to thinking what I want for a revamp, because I know GW will have different ideas. And will possibly balls everything up terribly, as seems to be their want at the moment.

Although, with the current 'New-army-must-be-best' syndrome that seems to be around... Who knows? Do we dread the thought that Witch Hunters/Grey Knights might actually become popular?

 

[Fizzics]

Do we dread the thought that Witch Hunters/Grey Knights might actually become popular?

yes

 

[IofRaw]

I would like to see them become popular- at least popular enough that we get some formations and legendary units for apocalypse instead of GW just telling us to use the SM and IG units.

I'd like us to be popular enough to have a flyer. (although they really should hurry up and release a plastic Thunderhawk)

I'd like us to have a battleforce box set, or Emperor forbid an entry level one and a big one like the orks and SM do.

We've talked in the WH threads about using Penitent Engines in large numbers- imagine getting 3 plastic penitent engines in a box for the same price as sentinels.

Would it bother me if everyone played inquisitors? No, because if the codices and kits sold out everytime they hit the shelves, GW would release a codex for each Ordo. Emperor forbid we get a codex for each order of the sororitas; I know it'll never happen, but why not? The bloody SM have had codices for five of their chapters.

An Inquisition Superheavy! Bring it on.

The only thing I fear is a) a new codex nerfing/ watering down the unique units we all know and love b) new sculpts of existing models which look worse than the originals.

 

[Blood_Lord]

lol wut?

what exactly is "the correct slots"

Well, celestians in elite, dominians in FA, retributors in HS for an example. Do that with ALL units and you have the units in the correct slots

 

[A.T.]

In terms of SoB changes - I think the sisters themselves just need perks in-line with the marines - no change in stats or price or basic abilities, just cheaper gear options and some standard issue freebies (like multimeltas that don't cost five times that of their SM counterparts, standard issue VSS & book, free banner with a squad of 20, etc)

The repentia could do with being cut down in price significantly and turned into rending zealot-like models with the option of buying back up to an evis wielding sister - get some cheap(ish) fodder in there. Faith generation through martyrdom.

As for HQs, the palatine is only ever taken when a player is squeezed for points and should be geared for the job - a cheap as chips individual with a few optional packages to become a repentia-mistress, elite celestian VSS, or whatever.
Canoness stays as multi-function, perhaps with a radius effect Ld reroll.
At the other end a hieromartyr (saint) for those players who like figurehead HQs


One thought - it'd be nice to see failed faith checks not cost a point. Why? Because it'd encourage players to 'take a shot' at using faith in improbable circumstances, spreading a few points around rather than hording them for the sure thing.

 

[IofRaw]

These are some great ideas A.T.- I particularly like the palatine who could be a mistress and the hieromartyr.

The idea about faith points is interesting too- you make a good point about encouraging risky uses of faith. I wonder how much that would impact the strength of the army.

 

[Fizzics]

One thought - it'd be nice to see failed faith checks not cost a point. Why? Because it'd encourage players to 'take a shot' at using faith in improbable circumstances, spreading a few points around rather than hording them for the sure thing.

Eh... not so sure about this.

The idea about faith points is interesting too- you make a good point about encouraging risky uses of faith. I wonder how much that would impact the strength of the army.

IMO. That would break the army. The point of faith is to get you out of a jam, or to make your unit crazy powerful, on demand. If you say that if you fail the test of faith then you aren't charged a faith point, then you should take away martyrdom because you won't need it.

Faith is what makes the army such a difficult army to play. It is all about management. You have to budget your faith and try to find a good balance between rending flamers and the chance of needing invul saves next turn. We don't want to be another marine army, not having to worry about anything other than getting into shooting range and then not getting assaulted.

Being free to try to Divine Guidance your squads every turn because you aren't concerned about losing faith when you fail, is bad. I will be waiking around with sqauds of 10 with invul saves and sqauds of 3 with rending flamers. Not because I NEED them, but because it doesn't cost me anything if I don't get them.

All of life is about choices, and weighing the risks. This should be the same.

 

[A.T.]

I will be waiking around with sqauds of 10 with invul saves and sqauds of 3 with rending flamers.

Perhaps an HQ option that lets the player take a long shot _once_ each turn

- the original line was poorly thought out/written, the intention wasn't to end up with a whole load of squads taking shots at the unlikely faith rolls but rather to encourage players to try for the occasional 'miracle' roll, just to spice things up.

 

[Fizzics]

Perhaps an HQ option that lets the player take a long shot _once_ each turn

- the original line was poorly thought out/written, the intention wasn't to end up with a whole load of squads taking shots at the unlikely faith rolls but rather to encourage players to try for the occasional 'miracle' roll, just to spice things up.

Isn't that what the Litanies of Faith does already? With the exception that it is once a game, not once a turn.

 

[IofRaw]

Good points on the martyrdom and the litanies there fizzics; I really like the mechanic of martyrdom- I mean it sucks to lose an upgrade character, but it just feels so right given the fluff of the army. It would definitely detract from the flavour of the army if martyrdom was eliminated or even marginalized.

As for the litanies of faith, we never go to war without one (unless I'm fielding the Precinct 17 army, which has no sisters).

 

[A.T.]

Isn't that what the Litanies of Faith does already?

What i'm going for is something to encourage players to try the occasional long odds faith power rather than hording them for the safe bets.

It's not a balance thing, I just think there is no incentive under the current system to have fun with the faith pool, rarely any surprise in how it's used.

 

[ikbuh]

What i'm going for is something to encourage players to try the occasional long odds faith power rather than hording them for the safe bets.

It's not a balance thing, I just think there is no incentive under the current system to have fun with the faith pool, rarely any surprise in how it's used.

If I'm fighting an army where I don't need Ap1 shots, like Nids or Orks or something, I usually go for the "Miracle" roll and I think an option to buy an Upgrade for a VSS or something would be interesting to aid in that. Even if it was as simple as making the VSS count as the banner, like a Seraphim VSS. My seras have done some crazy Miracles themselves thanks to that.

 

[Deadstar_MRC]

What I'm going for is something to encourage players to try the occasional long odds faith power rather than hoarding them for the safe bets.

I wonder how they'd build this in, though?

I mean, if you just say once per controlling player's turn, they can use a faith power for free, it's not really enough incentive. Perhaps only small units (i.e. 5 or less) could gain the benefit of a free power?

Or maybe if you roll double ones the power is used for free? It's still not really encouraging risky attempts, though...

I quite like the idea, though! Seems quite fitting, giving you a reason to take some chances on the hope that the Emperor (or at least the dice god) smiles on you that day!

 

[A.T.]

I mean, if you just say once per controlling player's turn, they can use a faith power for free, it's not really enough incentive.

Don't lose a faith point on the first fail each round - so nothing free.

I've never invested in imagifiers, too pricey - I wonder how sisters would play if they were more common or if (as the text could be misinterpreted to imply) the imagifiers were not specific to the squad they were in.




Edit - I had a quick peer through some of the old pre-faith sister stuff. The 'Blade of Admonition' was quite an interesting one, a standard power weapon but during combat resolution any enemy models within 2" of the bearer are not counted.

Revised to 5th edition the ability to count any model within 2" as killed in close combat (for purposes of combat resolution only) is a unique and potentially powerful ability.

 

[Fizzics]

What about changing to something like as the squad gets whittled down the girls left become more and more faithful. Like they have been chosen to hang out at the end of the battle or something. Or because their sisters have fallen on the battle field. Blah blah blah.

That way.. as your squads go from 10->3 we could say something like

"When a third of the squad remains the remaining sisters place such a high belief that they have been chosen for great things that they my take tests of faith on 3d6 or 4d6."

That way... you aren't really saying that the first fail or somesthing is free... but you are still encouraging risky acts... like Divine Guidance on squads of 3 or so.

 

[Deadstar_MRC]

Don't lose a faith point on the first fail each round - so nothing free.

Ah, yes. I imagine that could work pretty well. And a nice simple idea too!